The Holy People and the Treaty

Zao is life · Monday at 8:12 AM

Keraz said:
Revelation 13:7 tells us exactly how long Satan will have.

Revelation 13:7 tells you exactly how long the beast will have. Satan's short time began when he was defeated by the cross and cast down to earth. His war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ will culminate in the beast's war against the saints (Revelation 13:7).

Or do you believe Satan is currently bound?

Try again.

Psst. You're a false teacher, so one of those whom you say will have to answer to God for their teaching.

TribulationSigns · Monday at 1:44 PM

Keraz said:
There are two princes in Dan 9:26.

You are reading into it with two princes to fit your flawed doctrine. It is all about context. The prince of verse 26 is still talking about Messiah the prince PER context. The English rule does not allow you to insert a third-party prince in the same sentence.

Daniel 9:24-27 is about God (Messiah the Prince) and His people, Israel! Not about another evil prince. Period.

Keraz · Monday at 3:39 PM

Zao is life said:
Revelation 13:7 tells you exactly how long the beast will have. Satan's short time began when he was defeated by the cross and cast down to earth. His war against the rest of the woman's seed who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ will culminate in the beast's war against the saints (Revelation 13:7).

Or do you believe Satan is currently bound?

Satan controls the 'beast', Revelation 13:4 They are one and the same.
Satan is not currently bound, but he is restricted by the Holy Spirit, in those who ask the HS to protect them.

Keraz · Monday at 3:50 PM

TribulationSigns said:
You are reading into it with two princes to fit your flawed doctrine. It is all about context. The prince of verse 26 is still talking about Messiah the prince PER context.

Daniel 9:26 says there is Messiah the Prince and then comes an invading prince. It is patently obvious they are not the same person.

TribulationSigns said:
Daniel 9:24-27 is about God (Messiah the Prince) and His people, Israel! Period.

Just who are His people, Israel? Those mixed race peoples who call themselves Jews and Israelis? Or are they the true, faithful peoples; now scattered around the world?

TribulationSigns · Monday at 3:52 PM

Keraz said:
Daniel 9:26 says there is Messiah the Prince and then comes an invading prince. It is patently obvious they are not the same person.

Invading Prince?! That is not what God said. You add it to His Word.

Keraz said:
Just who are His people, Israel? Those mixed race peoples who call themselves Jews and Israelis? Or are they the true, faithful peoples; now scattered around the world?

Who was his people at the time when he was put to death by them. Humm?

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 4:14 PM

Keraz said:
Satan controls the 'beast', Revelation 13:4 They are one and the same.

This shows an incredible lack of discernment.

KJV Translation:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Keraz Nonsense Translation:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the dragon: and they worshipped the dragon, saying, Who is like unto the dragon? who is able to make war with him?

Alternate Keraz Nonsense Translation:

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the beast which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

It does not say Satan controls the beast, it says he gives the beast its power. It differentiates between the beast and the dragon, Satan. You make the text say that Satan gave himself power, which is ludicrous.

Revelation 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

Do you think this verse is saying that he saw unclean spirits come out of the mouth of Satan, out of the mouth of Satan, and out of the mouth of the false prophet?

covenantee · Monday at 7:40 PM

Keraz said:
Daniel 9:26 says there is Messiah the Prince and then comes an invading prince. It is patently obvious they are not the same person.

There is only one Individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9:24-27.

He is Messiah the Prince.

The grammatical antecedent/referent of "prince" in verse 26 is "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

It is patently obvious that they are the same Person.

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 8:18 PM

covenantee said:
There is only one Individual identified as a prince in Daniel 9:24-27.

He is Messiah the Prince.

The grammatical antecedent/referent of "prince" in verse 26 is "Messiah the Prince" in verse 25.

It is patently obvious that they are the same Person.

Absolutely right. Verse 25 mentions a coming Messiah Prince and then verse 26 again mentions a Messiah and a coming prince. What basis is there for thinking that the coming prince referenced in verse 26 is some other coming prince than the one mentioned in verse 25? None. That's like saying that the Messiah mentioned in verse 26 is a different Messiah than the one mentioned in verse 25.

Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Jesus was ethnically a Jew, so His people were the Jews. So, the people of the prince were Jews. And it was the unbelieving Jews who were ultimately responsible for the destruction of the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD because of their rejection of Jesus.

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Keraz · Monday at 8:19 PM

TribulationSigns said:
Invading Prince?! That is not what God said. You add it to His Word.

I looked up the outdated and full of errors version dedicated to King James. It says: the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and Sancturary....Can be no other than Titus who did just that in 70AD.

TribulationSigns said:
Who was his people at the time when he was put to death by them. Humm?

They are the people who Jesus said would be thrown out of the Kingdom, Matthew 8:12, who have had the Kingdom taken from them. Matthew 21:43 and who Jesus will destroy; Luke 19:27

Keraz · Monday at 8:26 PM

Spiritual Israelite said:
Absolutely right. Verse 25 mentions a coming Messiah Prince and then verse 26 again mentions a Messiah and a coming prince. What basis is there for thinking that the coming prince referenced in verse 26 is some other coming prince than the one mentioned in verse 25? None. That's like saying that the Messiah mentioned in verse 26 is a different Messiah than the one mentioned in verse 25.

Why can't people read my posts properly? I referred only to the 2 princes in verse 26.

Spiritual Israelite said:
It does not say Satan controls the beast, it says he gives the beast its power.

The 'beast' has Satans powers and abilities. He will do whatever Satan wants. That constitutes control and obedience to Satan.

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 8:26 PM

Keraz said:
I looked up the outdated and full of errors version dedicated to King James.

Says the guy who uses a translation that is full of errors.

Keraz said:
It says: the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and Sancturary....Can be no other than Titus who did just that in 70AD.

No, it says the people of the prince that shall come destroy the city and the sanctuary. It does not say the prince does that. Jesus was ethnically a Jew so His people in an ethnic sense were the Jews and they were responsible for the destruction of the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD, as Jesus Himself indicated.

Luke 19:41 And when he was come near, he beheld the city, and wept over it, 42 Saying, If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! but now they are hid from thine eyes. 43 For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, 44 And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation.

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 8:28 PM

Keraz said:
Why can't people read my posts properly? I referred only to the 2 princes in verse 26.

Why can't you read scripture properly? There is only one prince in verse 26. The same prince referenced in verse 25.

Keraz said:
The 'beast' has Satans powers and abilities. He will do whatever Satan wants. That constitutes control and obedience to Satan.

You said the beast is Satan because you said "They are one and the same". Now you're backtracking?

Douggg · Monday at 9:07 PM

Keraz said:
I looked up the outdated and full of errors version dedicated to King James. It says: the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and Sancturary....Can be no other than Titus who did just that in 70AD.

No, what it say is that the people of the prince that shall come will destroy the city and sanctuary.

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The city and sanctuary was destroyed by the Romans. The prince that shall come will be of the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - i.e. from the EU.

covenantee · Monday at 9:22 PM

Douggg said:
The city and sanctuary was destroyed by the Romans. The prince that shall come will be of the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - i.e. from the EU.

So the people came in 70 AD, but their prince hasn't yet come almost 2,000 years later, with no indication of when he will.

Amen. That makes perfect sense.

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 9:56 PM

covenantee said:
So the people came in 70 AD, but their prince hasn't yet come almost 2,000 years later, with no indication of when he will.

Amen. That makes perfect sense.

LOL! Only in his mind. The prince is just running a bit late. No worries.

Does he ever make sense to anyone else but himself? Maybe rarely.

It makes about as much sense as this...

Keraz · Monday at 11:05 PM

Spiritual Israelite said:
No, it says the people of the prince that shall come destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The horde of an invading prince will work havoc on the city and sanctuary. The end of it will we a cataclysm, inevitable war with all its horrors. Daniel 9:26b Messiah Jesus did not do this!
You are the expert at making 1+1=3

Douggg said:
The city and sanctuary was destroyed by the Romans. The prince that shall come will be of the Roman Empire manifested in the end times - i.e. from the EU.

This I agree with, except that Daniel 7:23 tells us the Fourth Kingdom will encompass the whole earth.
Also that leader will be a descendant of Assyria; Nahum 1:11

Spiritual Israelite · Monday at 11:19 PM

Keraz said:
The horde of an invading prince will work havoc on the city and sanctuary. The end of it will we a cataclysm, inevitable war with all its horrors. Daniel 9:26b Messiah Jesus did not do this!

So, it's the horde who "work havoc on the city and the sanctuary", not the prince. You have reading comprehension issues.

Keraz said:
You are the expert at making 1+1=3

You know I was directing that towards Douggg, don't you? Or are you reading comprehension skills even worse than I thought?

Keraz said:
This I agree with, except that Daniel 7:23 tells us the Fourth Kingdom will encompass the whole earth.
Also that leader will be a descendant of Assyria; Nahum 1:11

You agree with him that the people or horde of the prince destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD, but that the prince himself hasn't even shown up yet? Why do you not realize how nonsensical that is? How was he their prince when he didn't even exist at the time (according to you)?

Keraz · Tuesday at 3:48 PM

Spiritual Israelite said:
You agree with him that the people or horde of the prince destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD, but that the prince himself hasn't even shown up yet?

You would be the greatest 'conclusion jumper', I know!
It seems you do it so as to denigrate and make fun of others. That is your reputation here, as a stirrer and who puts down others. Hardly a proper Christian and helpful attitude.

History tells us about the Roman conquest, first General Titus destroyed the Temple, then Emperor Hadrian flattened Jerusalem.
The prince who is yet to show up, will be the one Prophesied for the time of the end. He will sit in the new Temple, 2 Thess 2:4, and control the whole world. As Rome did over the whole known world.

Spiritual Israelite · Tuesday at 4:01 PM

Keraz said:
You would be the greatest 'conclusion jumper', I know!
It seems you do it so as to denigrate and make fun of others.

I make fun of nonsense because that is what it deserves.

Keraz said:
That is your reputation here, as a stirrer and who puts down others. Hardly a proper Christian and helpful attitude.

As if you haven't done that many times yourself? You know you have. Stop being a hypocrite. If you're going to try to teach things that are clearly not taught in scripture, it deserves to be mocked.

Keraz said:
History tells us about the Roman conquest, first General Titus destroyed the Temple, then Emperor Hadrian flattened Jerusalem.
The prince who is yet to show up, will be the one Prophesied for the time of the end. He will sit in the new Temple, 2 Thess 2:4, and control the whole world. As Rome did over the whole known world.

See, you're just speaking complete nonsense here. Why do you think I need to take this seriously? It was the people or horde of the prince who you say destroyed the city and the sanctuary and that was in 70 AD, right? Who was their prince? According to what you're saying here, it was General Titus or Emperor Hadrian. It was whoever their prince was when the city and the sanctuary was destroyed. So, with that being the case, how can you try to say that the prince is some future person? No future person would be the prince of those who destroyed the city and the sanctuary in 70 AD. Why am I supposed to take things that defy all logic and common sense seriously? I can't.

Keraz · Tuesday at 7:35 PM

Spiritual Israelite said:
Why am I supposed to take things that defy all logic and common sense seriously?

Understanding, logic and common sense, are far from you.
It seems that your thinking is - we don't have any future events, its all allegorical, spiritual or history.
I know you believe Jesus will Return, but nothing before that and KABOOM; nothing after that. This belief is just 'head in the sand' stuff and says to God; I don't care for Your warnings and extensive information of what You Plan.

That attitude is OK for you, but to promote it and to say how those who do believe the Prophesies, are dumb, is another matter.

The Holy People and the Treaty

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