Difficulty Reconciling

Hey You! said:

The issue of immediate Justification at first Belief, or Salvation taking our entire lives by having to Keep the Law of God...

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A comprehensive study of the gospel illustrates that mere belief is not a sufficient assurance of salvation. In chapter 3, Jesus delves into the profound idea of being "born again" or "born from above," a transformative experience that Paul elaborates on by emphasizing the importance of possessing "the Spirit of Christ." This entails living in accordance with the spirit and allowing oneself to be guided by its influence. Furthermore, in the book of Ephesians, Paul highlights that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which occurs upon genuine belief, is recognized as one of the most significant spiritual blessings that God bestows upon believers. This divine presence is not just a blessing but a vital aspect of spiritual life that empowers and transforms individuals.

CadyandZoe said:

A comprehensive study of the gospel illustrates that mere belief is not a sufficient assurance of salvation. In chapter 3, Jesus delves into the profound idea of being "born again" or "born from above," a transformative experience that Paul elaborates on by emphasizing the importance of possessing "the Spirit of Christ." This entails living in accordance with the spirit and allowing oneself to be guided by its influence. Furthermore, in the book of Ephesians, Paul highlights that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which occurs upon genuine belief, is recognized as one of the most significant spiritual blessings that God bestows upon believers. This divine presence is not just a blessing but a vital aspect of spiritual life that empowers and transforms individuals.

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Yes; we are Sealed by the Spirit. This shows us that we're Signed, Sealed, delivered...

Here's my Gospel Tract about it...

GracePeace said:

Again, either offer your solution or kick rocks : proposing a "tool" that will ostensibly be what helps me find a solution isn't offering a solution.

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The Hammer is the solution to the nail only for those who pick up the hammer.

GracePeace said:

If your method of reading solved the problem for you, in what way did you think it did that?

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Sure. I learned that some words have more than one meaning, depending on the context. For example, consider the word "spiring."

1. After the long winter, I couldn't wait to see the flowers bloom in spring.
2. The old mattress had a broken spring, making it uncomfortable to sleep on.
3. He decided to spring into action when he saw the dog trapped under the fence.

I also learned sentences can also have different meanings depending on context. For example, consider the sentence "I saw the bank."

Depending on the context:

1. It could mean someone noticed a financial institution (e.g., a place to deposit or withdraw money).
2. It could refer to observing the side of a river or stream (e.g., "the riverbank").
3. It might imply witnessing a dramatic tilt or turn, such as the angle of an airplane wing (e.g., "the plane's bank").

The same is true for scripture verses, many of which are ambiguous and can be used to say anything.

Finally, consider the following sentence:

"He who believes in me shall have eternal life."

1. It could refer to a condition of salvation, which one must meet to be saved -- my choice to believe.
2. It could refer to the basis of salvation, which is focused on the agent of salvation -- Jesus's role as savior.
3. It could identify the person who is being saved, which is one among many markers associated with that group -- one attribute among many.

The intended meaning is unavailable to us outside the context where the statement was made and the overall context of the entire gospel message.

GracePeace said:

In a way, yes, and, in a way, no... bc I could always agree with Justification by Faith, but I also saw ongoing and ultimate Justification, and wondered how to practically (not just on paper) navigate those, bc one can negate the other.

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Men have destroyed my friend .
had we read the bible and simply took in every word they left
we had soon realized the simple truth .
Its men through either OSAS , or whatever they desired that twisted things .
ITS SO PLAIN a wee baby child can see it .
WE ARE SAVED SOLEY by the grace of GOD , KEPT BY FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST .
James in no way omitted what paul said or Paul what james would write .
Folks dont seem to grasp a real simple truth .
LIP service alone dont mean squat , and believe me i know cause i was that man for years .
And i know its not my works that saved me
but by grace i know IF ONE TRULY is OF HIM THEY would have had the LOVE OF GOD upon them .
REAL GOOD FRUITS . not honoring sins , not trying to make excuses
ITS a real simple truth my friend and i can sum it up real simple too .
ANYONE who cometh to CHRIST would have beleived TRUTH
and they would KNOW we must continue to THE END
they would KNOW that ever word , every warning , was inspired BY THE SPIRIT
and that ITS FOR OUR GOOD that we take heed to it all .
GOD KNOWS HOW TO KEEP US SAFE , the problem is
too many follow EITHER OSAS or something else . EVERY WORD they left us
IS For our good , and the SPIRIT would have told us so . Most dont like warnings
Most dont like reminders like one has to continue to the end
OR let all who name the name of CHRIST depart from inquity
and that SIN CAN AND WILL: HARDEN THE HEART . MOST LIKE TO PICK and choose
and thus MOST AINT GONNA MAKE IT FRIEND . I CHOOSE EVERY WORD OF THE LORD as my MEAT . TOO bad most folks dont .

Hey You! said:

Yes; we are Sealed by the Spirit. This shows us that we're Signed, Sealed, delivered...

Here's my Gospel Tract about it...

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Adopted ~ by ReverendRV * January 7

Ephesians 1:5 KJV; Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Have you been Adopted by God?

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees who claimed to be children of their Jewish Patriarch ‘Father Abraham’. Jesus responded back by saying they were of their father, the Devil. Satan is called the ‘father of Lies’; have you ever told a lie? Then you’re also of your father the Devil. ~ If you’ve come to the knowledge that you’re a Sinner in the sight of God or felt the burden Sin has placed on your life; and if you’ve trusted in Jesus as your Savior from your Sin, you’re ‘Born Again’. This spiritual birth gives us a new lease on life since the Devil’s no longer our father; no longer having any paternal rights over you. Maybe you know someone who’s adopted a child into their family? Maybe they already had a child to begin with. Maybe that adopted child is not as beloved in the parent’s heart as their unique offspring is, and maybe the parents are not considering the child in their inheritance. If so, they have failed! This Adopted child is no better off than a Cinderella…

Thank God that this is not how he treats his adopted children! The Apostle Paul says, “And you, also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the Gospel of your Salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a Seal, the promised Holy Ghost, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.” When Paul speaks about a Seal he’s talking about a wax seal, stamped by a Sovereign on a Royal Decree with this Sovereign’s Royal mark from the insignia of his ring. A seal on a letter had to be intact when the letter was delivered to its intended, so that he would know that the letter was undefiled. In the book of Revelation, we find that only Jesus can open a Seal of God; and he only does this at the end of the world. We are The Holy Spirit’s parcel from the time we first believe through Faith, until we’re delivered intact; Seal and all...

If you want God as your Father then you must also want Jesus as your brother. Jesus is God’s unique Son but we must enter the family of God through Adoption, giving him paternal rights. The details of the Adoption contract are thus; believe on the risen Lord Jesus Christ and you will be Forgiven! We’re Saved by Grace through our Faith, without Working to be Adopted. Repent of your Sins, and Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God. Join an Evangelical Church that preaches the Gospel, and has a heart for the Lost ~ The Devil is destined for Hell and all his family will be with him there. Jesus Christ’s brothers will be with him in Heaven for all eternity; Praise God!

Galatians 4:7 + 1st John 3:1 KJV; Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

GracePeace said:

Everyone but you gets it. Lol maybe it's because your new special way of reading the Bible.

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In reality, the opposite is the case. My approach to reading the Bible is quite standard and aligns with general reading practices, applicable to any text, not just the scriptures. The challenge arises from the fact that many Christians receive the message, both through sermons and personal examples, that the Bible is a distinct and almost enchanted book—one that only a select few can truly comprehend. This notion creates a barrier, suggesting that its meaning is reserved for an elite group and not accessible to the average reader.

GracePeace said:

All he can say is "You're reading it wrong", he doesn't even offer his alternative solution he reached by reading his new special way that everyone should be in awe of. How is that helpful?

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Its easy to prove if one is Reading it wrong . HOW SO
if what we think it means CONTRADICTS other places , YEAH WE DEAD WRONG .
If folks think paul would have rebuked james they are wrong and if folks think james would have rebuked paul they are wrong .
Wanna good example .
What did paul tell the church that for sure confirms exactly what james said about no works being dead faith .
THIS is what paul told timothy .
IF any PROVIDES NOT and specially for His own , A WORKS , HE HAS DENIED THE FAITH . DEAD FAITH BABY .
And is worse than an infidel . I am telling us that Nothing they wrote contradicts what the other wrote .
Now to the trenches and lets GET in the BIBLE FOR OURSELVES and read it for ourselves . DO be encouraged .

CadyandZoe said:

In reality, the opposite is the case. My approach to reading the Bible is quite standard and aligns with general reading practices, applicable to any text, not just the scriptures. The challenge arises from the fact that many Christians receive the message, both through sermons and personal examples, that the Bible is a distinct and almost enchanted book—one that only a select few can truly comprehend. This notion creates a barrier, suggesting that its meaning is reserved for an elite group and not accessible to the average reader.

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That is precisley to some degree what most folks now beleive . THEY BELIEVE
you HAVE TO LEARN it through either their preacher , their greek , their scholars
WHAT A LIE , in fact most of them are fleecing and decieving the flocks and if anyone has eyes to see
they would see EVEN THEIR OWN Scholars and greek CONTRADICTS the others .
WE CAN . BY GRACE WE SURE CAN and I SAY WE NOW MUST learn that bible FOR OURSELVES cause men be fleecing big time .

CadyandZoe said:

A comprehensive study of the gospel illustrates that mere belief is not a sufficient assurance of salvation. In chapter 3, Jesus delves into the profound idea of being "born again" or "born from above," a transformative experience that Paul elaborates on by emphasizing the importance of possessing "the Spirit of Christ." This entails living in accordance with the spirit and allowing oneself to be guided by its influence. Furthermore, in the book of Ephesians, Paul highlights that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, which occurs upon genuine belief, is recognized as one of the most significant spiritual blessings that God bestows upon believers. This divine presence is not just a blessing but a vital aspect of spiritual life that empowers and transforms individuals.

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Amen!

Becoming Born Of The Spirit, is a “ mind blowing “ Living supernatural experience “ which comes by divine heart revelation..

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....our spirit has been birthed, into the Spirit of Christ...Born Again of imperishable seed.....our spirit is Born Again....it can’t be explained, as it’s between God and us.....our spirit knows that it’s Born Again and in Christ.

The Living Spirit permanently indwells our spirit....never ever to leave.

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.

The Living Spirit who is the seed....who is incorruptible/ imperishable...lives in our spirit.....conforming us into the image of Jesus.

We are partakers Of the divine nature.

BarneyFife said:

You seem to be under spiritual attack and, unfortunately, the amateur debate team is piling on.

I'm praying for you, my friend.

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its true that at times people can be under attack .
It dont seem to matter what denomination one is in , or the RCC
or the liberal or the conservative camp
THEY SURE SEEM to have one common thing and person they love to put on ignore and not heed .
cause that person exposes the SINS of them all and wont be bought by their denominations or their politics .
OH i forgot to ask , HOW YA BEEN doing barney . Have you missed me greatly . didnt think so .
Seems the lovey do camp has one they all seem to agree needs to GO and be gone .
cause that one and a few others EXPOSE ALL SINS and THEIR FALSE LOVEY DO UNITY FOR WORLD PEACE mumbo jumbo lies .

CadyandZoe said:

In reality, the opposite is the case. My approach to reading the Bible is quite standard and aligns with general reading practices, applicable to any text, not just the scriptures. The challenge arises from the fact that many Christians receive the message, both through sermons and personal examples, that the Bible is a distinct and almost enchanted book—one that only a select few can truly comprehend. This notion creates a barrier, suggesting that its meaning is reserved for an elite group and not accessible to the average reader.

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No Holy Spirit required, eh?

:)

Ritajanice said:

Amen!

Becoming Born Of The Spirit, is a “ mind blowing “ Living supernatural experience “ which comes by divine heart revelation..

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....our spirit has been birthed, into the Spirit of Christ...Born Again of imperishable seed.....our spirit is Born Again....it can’t be explained, as it’s between God and us.....our spirit knows that it’s Born Again and in Christ.

The Living Spirit permanently indwells our spirit....never ever to leave.

Born Again of imperishable seed that liveth and abideth forever.

The Living Spirit who is the seed....who is incorruptible/ imperishable...lives in our spirit.....conforming us into the image of Jesus.

We are partakers Of the divine nature.

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OH it sure is a mind changing heart changing event all right .
Speaking of being a partake of the divine nature
lets not forget to add the part about fleeing the lustful desires .
I see , not saying you , FAR TOO MANY claiming to have had a mind blowing heart changing experience
THE ONLY problem is they still holding up rainbows , hundred dolla bills , still embracing , still justifying sins
and still hating on those who do correct and expose sins . KEEP marching on sister
but WHEN GOD changes us , HE CHANGES US . GOD does not honor SINS of any sort .
GOD does not honor a false love that implies all religoins serve the same GOD WE DO
and thus MAKES THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS of no effect . BUT THE DEVIL SURE DO
and HE SURE can use the NAME of JESUS to decieve . JESUS IS THE TRUTH
and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH
THE SPIRIT IS THE TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH , THE SON
GOD IS TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH , OF THE SON . Not of lies , not of false love , not of honoring any sin . THAT AINT GOD
that is man and the dark one doing that stuff .

amigo de christo said:

OH it sure is a mind changing heart changing event all right .
Speaking of being a partake of the divine nature
lets not forget to add the part about fleeing the lustful desires .
I see , not saying you , FAR TOO MANY claiming to have had a mind blowing heart changing experience
THE ONLY problem is they still holding up rainbows , hundred dolla bills , still embracing , still justifying sins
and still hating on those who do correct and expose sins . KEEP marching on sister
but WHEN GOD changes us , HE CHANGES US . GOD does not honor SINS of any sort .
GOD does not honor a false love that implies all religoins serve the same GOD WE DO
and thus MAKES THE DIRE NEED TO BELIEVE ON JESUS of no effect . BUT THE DEVIL SURE DO
and HE SURE can use the NAME of JESUS to decieve . JESUS IS THE TRUTH
and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH
THE SPIRIT IS THE TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH , THE SON
GOD IS TRUTH and TESTIFIES OF THE TRUTH , OF THE SON . Not of lies , not of false love , not of honoring any sin . THAT AINT GOD
that is man and the dark one doing that stuff .

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Like you have said....on a number of occasions.

They are following a different god to our God....Amen?

BarneyFife said:

No Holy Spirit required, eh?

:)

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That is a real good point my friend . FOR IT IS THE HOLY SPIRIT that opens our understanding of the scrips .
But now a real quick word , a real friendly reminder .
What happens when one man says THEY hear of the SPIRIT
and another man says THEY hear of the SPIRIT
and yet one man runs to a certain denomination and the other man is dead set against the denomination .
cause they sure cannot BOTH BE RIGHT .
I have a real simple solution . I say its time and its high time
to come out of some places and get back into the bible for ourselves .
Cause one of us is right the other is wrong . Its like when folks tell me the HOLY SPIRIT Led them into
the RCC , or into the mormon church . DO YOU REALLY THINK that was the HOLY SPIRIT .
NO SIR .
NO matter what BOTH CANNOT BE RIGHT when one is in total agreement with their denomination
and the other is dead set against it and yet BOTH cliam to hear FROM GOD . ONE Of them is WRONG barney .
SO is it me , or you . I suggest we return with childlike faith and love to THE LORD and get back into the bible
FOR OURSELVES . things can be cleared up much faster than one thinks .

GracePeace said:

I didn't want to discuss Paul or James in this thread, just John's Gospel.

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so explain his gospel , cause its the same one as pauls and as james .
However since you want to discuss His gospel
lets start asking some questions my friend .
What is it about it you want to
dicuss my friend .

GracePeace said:

I didn't want to discuss Paul or James in this thread, just John's Gospel.

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Hey @GracePeace . Would you consider this tactic to be like box'ing people in? In one sense, you ask us how we resolve the issue; and we say by thinking outside the box. When we do this, you tell us you only want to solve the problem by box'ing us in...

I would think this is like a Jew wanting a question answered by only using the Old Testament. The entire Cannon of Scripture a box; why not use it all? Perhaps it's a mistake a new Christian would make, or perhaps it's a restriction to get the answer you want...

Lurkers? What say you?