Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

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Jack

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That stands out with
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

? What does that mean to you?
Churches are filled with them. They call themselves preachers / ministers.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,
 

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What doesn't the Christian Bible tell us about God that we need to know???
You keep refering to the Christian Bible. What biblical canon are you refering to? There have been plenty. There are still numerous ones available now. Which is the Christian one and which ones are not?
For Christians it's ALL BIBLE! It tells us all we need to know about God!
Again you have been respectfully asked to clarify your conclusion,
For Christians it's ALL BIBLE! It tells us all we need to know about God!
Who said the bible tells us all we need to know about God?
Your comment: "Everyone gets to do time in hell. Actually, to spend forever and ever in hell. That includes you and me. Period."
We've covered this but since you have bought it up again I will happily interpret what I was doing and therefore attempting to convey.

All of us human have sinned and deserve the consequences.

The wages of sin is death.

As we are all born from Adam and are under the curse placed on Adam.

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.”

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

So if we were to push the stop button on God'sstory, then all human will surely die. All humans deserve to die and get judged and be sent to hell.

But as you rightfully pointed out, there was a twist in this story.

Christ the second Adam was sent to be an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. Since then, anyone whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

We have been happy to accept this offer to escape everlasting punishment in the lake of fire and become glorified so that we can enjoy everlasting life with our Creator.

If we (humans born condemned) are OK to accept this gift and enjoy its benefits, why are we not ok for Satan and His angels along with all humans to accept this same gift?

And yet you believe in Universalism!

I think those voices you're hearing have your head spinning!
The Spirit of God revealed the mass repenting of all those outside His kingdom. The one who led the turning back to their Creators was Satan.

As I observed this scene, the Creators accepted them, reconciling every one of them to Themselves.

God the Father went further than that. While engaging with Satan, He reached behind Him and produced a throne to His left. This prodigal angel was shown divine mercy and grace.

Now isn't that something amazing, that not only the angels in heaven will rejoice over, but we the firstfuits also as we join them in worshipping our Creators. What a reunion party this will be! To be reunited with those we were separated from, be it us humans or angels. The prodigal angels have returned. This is so exciting! My heart can't help but be filled with joy right now. Oh the love of God for Their creation is absolutely astounding.
 
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Jack

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You keep refering to the Christian Bible. What biblical canon are you refering to? There have been plenty. There are still numerous ones available now. Which is the Christian one and which ones are not?
Genesis - Revelation. They are quite consistent.
Again you have been respectfully asked to clarify your conclusion,
For Christians it's ALL BIBLE! It tells us all we need to know about God!
Who said the bible tells us all we need to know about God?
So it's your opinions against the Bible. What are your credentials? ZERO maybe?
We've covered this but since you have bought it up again I will happily interpret what I was doing and therefore attempting to convey.

All of us human have sinned and deserve the consequences.

The wages of sin is death.

As we are all born from Adam and are under the curse placed on Adam.

but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it. For in the day that thou eatest thereof, thou shalt surely die.”

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

So if we were to push the stop button on God'sstory, then all human will surely die. All humans deserve to die and get judged and be sent to hell.

But as you rightfully pointed out, there was a twist in this story.

Christ the second Adam was sent to be an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world. Since then, anyone whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life.

We have been happy to accept this offer to escape everlasting punishment in the lake of fire and become glorified so that we can enjoy everlasting life with our Creator.

If we (humans born condemned) are OK to accept this gift and enjoy its benefits, why are we not ok for Satan and His angels along with all humans to accept this same gift?


The Spirit of God revealed the mass repenting of all those outside His kingdom. The one who led the turning back to their Creators was Satan.

As I observed this scene, the Creators accepted them, reconciling every one of them to Themselves.

God the Father went further than that. While engaging with Satan, He reached behind Him and produced a throne to His left. This prodigal angel was shown divine mercy and grace.

Now isn't that something amazing, that not only the angels in heaven will rejoice over, but we the firstfuits also as we join them in worshipping our Creators. What a reunion party this will be! To be reunited with those we were separated from, be it us humans or angels. The prodigal angels have returned. This is so exciting! My heart can't help but be filled with joy right now. Oh the love of God for Their creation is absolutely astounding.
Bottom line: Your opinions VS God of the Bible. Why are you EVADING my question?

What doesn't the Christian Bible tell us about God that we need to know???
 

One 2 question

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Genesis - Revelation. They are quite consistent.
Have you done a thorough study of the origins and development of the biblical canons? It appears that you haven't but I don't want to assume you haven't.

If you have, could you teach us what you've learnt.
So it's your opinions against the Bible. What are your credentials? ZERO maybe?
Could you explain what you mean here.
Bottom line: Your opinions VS God of the Bible. Why are you EVADING my question?

What doesn't the Christian Bible tell us about God that we need to know???
Example. The future restoration of Satan. His elevation to sit on his own throne at God's left in His kingdom.
 

St. SteVen

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Have you done a thorough study of the origins and development of the biblical canons? It appears that you haven't but I don't want to assume you haven't.
It's an interesting question.
Some claim that every word of the Bible is the God-breathed (inspired) infallible Word of God.
If so, why has humankind been slicing and dicing it up to meet their own objectives?

[
 

One 2 question

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It's an interesting question.
Some claim that every word of the Bible is the God-breathed (inspired) infallible Word of God.
If so, why has humankind been slicing and dicing it up to meet their own objectives?

[
I would think that most who identify as Christian would've never looked into it. Yes, Luther was credited for removing 14 books in one go. Not sure if he should be praised or judged for it.

So who decides what is inspired or not?
 
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St. SteVen

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I wonder why more people don't question these things.
I think it boils down to fear.

Believer = no questions = heaven
Unbeliever = questions = hell

I create topics that challenge these things.
Currently about 250+ topics.


[
 

VictoryinJesus

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I think it boils down to fear.

Believer = no questions = heaven
Unbeliever = questions = hell

I create topics that challenge these things.
Currently about 250+ topics.


[

Came across this the other night when trying to find something to listen to on my earbuds, while falling asleep. It does make you consider what men say about God. It’s worth a listen (Imo).
 
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St. SteVen

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Came across this the other night when trying to find something to listen to on my earbuds, while falling asleep. It does make you consider what men say about God. It’s worth a listen (Imo).
Thanks.
Yes, well worth a listen. (for the brave)

Confirms my conclusion.

Believer = no questions = heaven
Unbeliever = questions = hell

The view that the Nicene Council was political, not spiritual, is a compelling observation.

Bow the knee to the Nicene Creed, or face the consequences.

[
 
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amadeus

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Came across this the other night when trying to find something to listen to on my earbuds, while falling asleep. It does make you consider what men say about God. It’s worth a listen (Imo).
Thanks.
Yes, well worth a listen. (for the brave)

Confirms my conclusion.

Believer = no questions = heaven
Unbeliever = questions = hell

The view that the Nicene Council was political, not spiritual, is a compelling observation.

Bow the knee to the Nicene Creed, or face the consequences.

[
Some of the questions are good ones, but to me it seems there is an overemphasis on man being able to find the right answers in himself alone. My own experience among men and in myself is that men alone generally are not to be trusted. The goodness of men, when it really exists, comes from a good Creator, a good God.

I do believe in the left hand of God versus the right hand of God, but they are both ultimately the One God... not an evil negative god in the OT and an loving God in the NT.

The help we need... and yes, I do believe that we all need help... is available to us through the Holy Spirit.

Jer 10:23O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Ps 37:23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Joh 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Ac 9:31Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Eph 4:20But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
 
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One 2 question

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Some of the questions are good ones, but to me it seems there is an overemphasis on man being able to find the right answers in himself alone. My own experience among men and in myself is that men alone generally are not to be trusted. The goodness of men, when it really exists, comes from a good Creator, a good God.

I do believe in the left hand of God versus the right hand of God, but they are both ultimately the One God... not an evil negative god in the OT and an loving God in the NT.

The help we need... and yes, I do believe that we all need help... is available to us through the Holy Spirit.
This is the great hope! The Spirit of the Christ.

Maybe many other God sent beings have tried to represent Him, then He sent His right hand being who was born and at that moment became His Son, the only begotten Son.

So Who has known the mind of God, the Creator of all things? His Spirit.

Who has access to all that is God? Jesus the Christ . He said, All that belongs to my Father is Mine. Then went on to say that the Spirit will take from Him and deliver it to us.

You are right. All points to the Spirit. He will lead and guide us into all truth.

Not humans. We are susceptible to corruption. So I see that the religious and political systems are definitely corrupt. They were and continue to have an insatiable hunger for power and control and have gone to whatever lengths to get it. Even to manipulate what the masses read and believe. Obviously the biblical canon was not spared but became their greatest tool.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Some of the questions are good ones, but to me it seems there is an overemphasis on man being able to find the right answers in himself alone. My own experience among men and in myself is that men alone generally are not to be trusted. The goodness of men, when it really exists, comes from a good Creator, a good God.

I do believe in the left hand of God versus the right hand of God, but they are both ultimately the One God... not an evil negative god in the OT and an loving God in the NT.

The help we need... and yes, I do believe that we all need help... is available to us through the Holy Spirit.

Jer 10:23O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.
Ps 37:23The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
Joh 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Joh 14:26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Ac 9:31Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied.
Eph 4:20But ye have not so learned Christ;
Eph 4:21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
Eph 4:22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
Eph 4:23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Eph 4:24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Thinking of you, John.

I’ve tried to respond to your post several times but deleted it. I’m not saying I’ve had an experience like Paul had on the road, but I am bringing it up for an example. Especially with the video on what we have been told of God. I can see Saul in the way the video spoke of those who want to imprison, persecute, consent to death— as Saul consented to Stephens death, consenting to the shedding of blood of a brother. I don’t know for sure but I would think Paul would have had questions when asked “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” The first is a question, “Lord, who are you?”
I can relate asking that question before also, many times “Lord, who are you?”
The point I’m making is I don’t see how a person would not have questions when believing for so long you are serving the One true God (in my case saying a prayer over and over again saying i was a Christian when I knew nothing about God’s Nature), to find out instead you have persecuted the Way. I see your point in Paul saying he was taught the True God not of men, but taught the True God by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Paul having to unlearn (Imo) misconceptions held for a long time. This I can relate to. For decades being taught God is a tyrant, a respecter of persons so much so that I was fully convinced women are just cattle or a possession to God. All I learned about the Nature of God where there came a point, I opened the word and asked “why do you hate me, God?” If and when we have all had a time when all our own thoughts about God, our own theology and our own beliefs have failed…I don’t see it as an evil thing to stand up and question what men have taught of God. Almost every verse in the Bible I’ve had to relearn where nothing is as I thought it was through the lens of God as a tyrant. Even His followers. I’ve had to relearn their words that I always heard as demeaning or crushing, yet the Spirit within them edifies. Even when God gives them over to a reprobate mind …men’s focus is on God destroys them —but (Imo) the Nature of God is for the flesh to be destroyed so that the spirit may be saved. Regardless of countless verses on destroying (Imo) it’s always for that which is better and profitable. Freeing… liberating from what? Makes me consider Ephesians 4:14-16 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
 
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amadeus

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Thinking of you, John.

I’ve tried to respond to your post several times but deleted it. I’m not saying I’ve had an experience like Paul had on the road, but I am bringing it up for an example. Especially with the video on what we have been told of God. I can see Saul in the way the video spoke of those who want to imprison, persecute, consent to death— as Saul consented to Stephens death, consenting to the shedding of blood of a brother. I don’t know for sure but I would think Paul would have had questions when asked “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute Me?” The first is a question, “Lord, who are you?”
I can relate asking that question before also, many times “Lord, who are you?”
The point I’m making is I don’t see how a person would not have questions when believing for so long you are serving the One true God (in my case saying a prayer over and over again saying i was a Christian when I knew nothing about God’s Nature), to find out instead you have persecuted the Way. I see your point in Paul saying he was taught the True God not of men, but taught the True God by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Paul having to unlearn (Imo) misconceptions held for a long time. This I can relate to. For decades being taught God is a tyrant, a respecter of persons so much so that I was fully convinced women are just cattle or a possession to God. All I learned about the Nature of God where there came a point, I opened the word and asked “why do you hate me, God?” If and when we have all had a time when all our own thoughts about God, our own theology and our own beliefs have failed…I don’t see it as an evil thing to stand up and question what men have taught of God. Almost every verse in the Bible I’ve had to relearn where nothing is as I thought it was through the lens of God as a tyrant. Even His followers. I’ve had to relearn their words that I always heard as demeaning or crushing, yet the Spirit within them edifies. Even when God gives them over to a reprobate mind …men’s focus is on God destroys them —but (Imo) the Nature of God is for the flesh to be destroyed so that the spirit may be saved. Regardless of countless verses on destroying (Imo) it’s always for that which is better and profitable. Freeing… liberating from what? Makes me consider Ephesians 4:14-16 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; [15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: [16] From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, makes increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Thank you for remembering me. According to the flesh I guess people might say I am going through some difficult times, but when such things want to get the better of me... I then remember to look to the Lord for something good.

Perhaps all of us, those who really do love the Lord, have had at least a type of a “Damascus Road experience” even though probably not often so bright in the eyes of others as Paul’s.

Who among us knows alot about God’s nature? [How much is "alot"?]

It is not only new converts who come short of God’s glory and come short of a full knowledge of Him and a full and perfect vision of Him. We may read and study and pray and worship daily receiving at times new revelations, new visions of Him... but who has gone beyond “in part”? Who has gone beyond “through a glass darkly”? What does "face to face" with God mean?

We can also listen to preachers and teachers and prophets... and receive good things, but remember while listening to them [and also including me] the warning given here:

Lu 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Do we have all of the ingredients necessary to see and understand but without the ability to even see what we have? Do we not still have at least a foot in the world even though we may not be “of the world”.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world...

Joh 17:14 ...they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And, No, it is not an evil thing ask such questions. We are all of still in the flesh even at the best of our times. This take me back to my own method of sifting through what I have heard and read and believed. Each day it is trying to go to the lowest room striving to empty myself and asking God to help me do so then as He wills that He may fill me anew with only things from Him.

Lu 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Remember also not to remain empty:

Mt 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mt 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Stay hungry and thirsty for the right things:

Mt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Ask God to help you have and to retain the right hunger and thirst for alone we will not make it:

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
 
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Thank you for remembering me. According to the flesh I guess people might say I am going through some difficult times, but when such things want to get the better of me... I then remember to look to the Lord for something good.

Perhaps all of us, those who really do love the Lord, have had at least a type of a “Damascus Road experience” even though probably not often so bright in the eyes of others as Paul’s.

Who among us knows alot about God’s nature? [How much is "alot"?]

It is not only new converts who come short of God’s glory and come short of a full knowledge of Him and a full and perfect vision of Him. We may read and study and pray and worship daily receiving at times new revelations, new visions of Him... but who has gone beyond “in part”? Who has gone beyond “through a glass darkly”? What does "face to face" with God mean?

We can also listen to preachers and teachers and prophets... and receive good things, but remember while listening to them [and also including me] the warning given here:

Lu 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Lu 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

Do we have all of the ingredients necessary to see and understand but without the ability to even see what we have? Do we not still have at least a foot in the world even though we may not be “of the world”.

Joh 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world...

Joh 17:14 ...they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

And, No, it is not an evil thing ask such questions. We are all of still in the flesh even at the best of our times. This take me back to my own method of sifting through what I have heard and read and believed. Each day it is trying to go to the lowest room striving to empty myself and asking God to help me do so then as He wills that He may fill me anew with only things from Him.

Lu 14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
Lu 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

Remember also not to remain empty:

Mt 12:44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Mt 12:45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Stay hungry and thirsty for the right things:

Mt 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Ask God to help you have and to retain the right hunger and thirst for alone we will not make it:

Mt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Joh 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when it puffs up. The video brings up the persecution of folks who dared to learn. That spirit of persecution is everywhere. It is largely restrained by the rule of law. If law (in the general sense—but say, in the case of forum rules here, at least, in part) were removed folks would feel free to oppress those who disagreed with their pontifications. It can be as mild as a dismissive reply (which I've encountered just today), but if Christ were to encounter much of what we say to each other here, He would say to us: "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of" (John 9:55).

This is why I believe religious liberty—not entitlement (which is what passes for liberty in the eyes of many of the religious right in America today)—is the most precious right we have, and why it is ultimately and thankfully granted by God Himself, regardless of the reliance we place on the state to do so, which is fleeting, at best. Which I think might actually reflect your highlighted portion of John 15:5, in some sense. Perhaps He really means "nothing."

strs
 

amadeus

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Knowledge can be a dangerous thing, especially when it puffs up. The video brings up the persecution of folks who dared to learn. That spirit of persecution is everywhere. It is largely restrained by the rule of law. If law (in the general sense—but say, in the case of forum rules here, at least, in part) were removed folks would feel free to oppress those who disagreed with their pontifications. It can be as mild as a dismissive reply (which I've encountered just today), but if Christ were to encounter much of what we say to each other here, He would say to us: "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of" (John 9:55).

This is why I believe religious liberty—not entitlement (which is what passes for liberty in the eyes of many of the religious right in America today)—is the most precious right we have, and why it is ultimately and thankfully granted by God Himself, regardless of the reliance we place on the state to do so, which is fleeting, at best. Which I think might actually reflect your highlighted portion of John 15:5, in some sense. Perhaps He really means "nothing."

strs
I believe we have what men call freewill. We have two choices: God's Way or our own way. Our own way is "nothing" or death in the eyes of God. It is the way of death taken by dead men. Anyone without God in God's eyes even though they believe they are alive.
Mt 8:21And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mt 8:22But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
 

Jack

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Those who are led by the bible are children of God or is it those who are led by the Spirit are children of God. And if we are children, we are brethren and sisters.
Those who are led by the Bible are led by the Holy Spirit. Those who leave the Bible are being led by DEMONS. And they always find Satan waiting for them.