Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

Naomanos · Mar 15, 2025

Wrangler said:
This is the experience many men have in succumbing to the man-hating institution of marriage counseling.

Yet, another all encompassing statement.

Even though Wrangler has me on ignore, I am going to respond to this.

My ex- wife and I went through marriage counseling while we’re still married. She stopped going because the counselor seemed to her to be on my side because she was agreeing with me more than her. An example is when she told the counselor that I am not coddling my daughter enough when she was learning to walk. My daughter would fall on her butt or forward and start crying. I would say that you’re okay and to try again. My ex-wife would pick her up, hug her, ask her where it hurts and coddle her. I was trying to teach her that just because she fell, there is no reason to cry and to get back up and keep going.
Now, if she had truly gotten hurt, I would do what I can to console her.

So, the counselor said to her that as a dad I am doing what I am supposed to do. I am the tough love half of the marriage with kids. My ex-wife didn’t like that too much and insisted I need to coddle our daughter.

Marriage counseling isn’t man hating because you found yours to not listen to you.

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Wynona said:
Ive never seen anyone point to a wife and tell her to take responsibility for anything that goes wrong in a marriage.

I can't say that I've never seen anyone point to a woman and tell her to take responsibility. If a marriage fails, there will be areas where both parties could have made better choices. But a failed marriage isn't always the fault of the wife. If she is selfish, yes, I'd say that will destroy her marriage relationship.

Likewise, a lazy, self absorbed, entitled, angry, selfish man will destroy his marriage. I have seen that happen 90% more often than the opposite. I have seen women nearly kill themselves to save their marriages, bending over backwards, enduring verbal, spiritual, and even physical abuse, praying for their husband, waiting years for him to choose love and most often, they never do. I don't see men doing that for their wives who are walking in selfishness.

I get it that your walk has necessitated that you look at the ways your actions, desires, attitudes, etc drove you apart from your husband. That isn't the case with every marriage that fails. In a failed marriage, there will be an aspect of selfishness somewhere ...in one or both parties. Instead of coming together to enrich each other's lives, they came together for what they could get from the other person. Wrong motives.

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Wynona said:
This is how we used to run our marriage. I expected my husband to help with the chores. I was expected to help with the bills since we were both working.

A. This caused us to argue about chores and finances because we disagreed on how both should be run.

B. We each were less efficient when sharing the responsibilities this way. Things got easier the same month we delegated finances to my husband and chores to me because specializing in a role makes you better at that role.

For years, I did this, and it was very imbalanced. I needed to be with my children, so I worked in the parochial school where our children attended. During part of that time, our youngest wasn't old enough to go to school yet. But because my husband worked 2nd shift, he could be home with our youngest son while I was at the school till 2pm.

My schedule was like this...

*Wake up around 6am, get myself and 5 children fed breakfast, children ready for school
*Get to the school around 7:30am
*11:30am, lunchtime at school, so I rush home, get food prepared and served for hubby and our son (hubby just waking up)
*Noon, back to the school to finish out my workday
*2pm, rush back to the house to get food together for hubby to take to work
*2:30pm, see hubby off to work
*3:15pm, take our son with me to pick up the 4 school age children
*3:45 ...my home-work begins ....oversee kids' homework, chores (me and the children) ...laundry, floors, etc
*5pm, start supper
*6pm, eat dinner, plate up something for hubby to take to work the next day, kids' lunches for the next day
*6:45pm, evening chores (dishes, etc)
*Do the bills, balance checkbook, haggle with bill collectors, etc fits in there somewhere
*8:30-9:30pm, kids in bed
*I get to unwind, pray, shower, journal, work through my trauma history (lots of prayer time, lots of journaling, emailing my prayer counselor, etc)

For years, it was expected that I be awake when hubby got home at 1am. And I did that for a long time ....years. But living on 4 hours of sleep a night for 10+ years takes a toll on a body ...especially when there is no time to rest during the day.

It finally got to where I would be awake for maybe a half hour after he arrived home, then fall asleep ...but still, only 4 hours of sleep.

But that was very imbalanced and I didn't expect him to contribute in the home ...and he didn't make much effort to do so. He did usually pick up his dishes and take them to the sink (or kitchen counter). It just wasn't my mindset to expect a man to do anything in the home. But ...he got to play on the computer from 1:30 or 2am till 5am and then slept till noon while I was working, caring for the kids, the home, the finances, etc, etc, etc.

The only thing I expected of him was that he be the head, to lead his family in Bible reading and prayer time. And I encouraged him in that for many years. I prayed for him, encouraged him, cheered for him and complimented his work ...and did my best to instill into the children that we take care of the home because we appreciate that dad works hard at his job and pays for the things we need. (He did earn a much bigger paycheck than I did.)

Still, things were very imbalanced, and there was more give on my part than his by far. I'm just being honest. It eventually led to me having to hand over some things to my husband ...which involved teaching him about handling bills and balancing the money. But that took a load off me so that I could have less stress on me and the load was more balanced.

Today, my grown daughters share with me the things they observed me doing when they were little are things they do today.... things I did without even thinking much of it, or realizing my children took note.

For example, my middle daughter (who has 2 toddlers and is expecting her 3rd within weeks) had us over for a family gathering. She cooked a lot of the food and everyone just brought a dish or two with them to contribute. She called everyone to eat, hubby prayed over the food. We all fixed our plates, and she fixed the boys' plates ...then went back and made her plate after everyone else had already made their plates and were sitting to eat. I saw this, and how that she was up and down tending the boys, and barely taking a bite here and there ...and I wanted to pitch in so she could sit and eat too for a change. But she cheerfully did this, and she did get to eat ....a cold/room temperature plate of food.

Later she told me that growing up, she saw me do this every day... that I would fix everyone's plates ....even their Dad's plate. And that I was busy tending to everyone else, taking the smaller portions, or foregoing having that last piece of something in case someone else wanted it. She said she always wanted to be that kind of wife/mom. She saw it as a virtue, something of value, to give of yourself to your husband and children.

I had never thought anything was spectacular about those things.... until I saw my sweet daughter serving her family with a selfless, cheerful heart.

Idk if I stayed on topic. lol
But there are sacrifices we make for the betterment of spouse, and children ...and often it will be one giving more than the other and waiting, praying, waiting .... praying ... encouraging ....lots more of the same.

When a marriage is suffering, we have to find our hope and strength in the Lord. Otherwise, we will lash out, argue, and become resentful and bitter. Work as unto the Lord and pray.

And ...if there is actual abuse, there may be a need for separation, or even divorce, depending on the nature of the abuse. But that's a whole other topic.

Mink57 · Mar 15, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
Honestly, feminism has never been an interest to me. I never aspired to have my own goals apart from my husband. So I couldn't define feminism, nor have I ever studied into it. Any healthy relationship, especially marriage, requires sacrifice.

Yes, to SOME degree it does. But so many WOMEN have made sacrifices that so many MEN don't seem to understand....
OR, that women are 'supposed' to give up their lives for the men they're with.

Hmm....doesn't the bible call for MEN to 'give THEIR lives' for their wives?

Mink57 · Mar 15, 2025

Wynona said:
Im illustrating my point with from my marriage. Its more than youve done to defend your point of view.

Saying "not all x" is just a deflection to undermine what Im saying.

No, it isn't . You've already SAID that you could tell others that if they led the marriage than Nao wants, YOU would tell them different.

What works for YOU, works for YOU. To claim that what works for YOU 'should' work for EVERYONE, is a bold...and arrogant statement, since there are soooo many marriages out there that don't follow YOUR lifestyle.

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Mink57 said:
Yes, to SOME degree it does. But so many WOMEN have made sacrifices that so many MEN don't seem to understand....
OR, that women are 'supposed' to give up their lives for the men they're with.

Hmm....doesn't the bible call for MEN to 'give THEIR lives' for their wives?

Yes, it does ...and a very valid point. Women are naturally nurturing and giving of themselves. Men are instructed to be protectors, providers, and lovers ...to show due benevolence to their wife, even. Wives are to show due benevolence to their husbands as well. And I would venture to say that due benevolence for a woman is not always the same as it is for a man ....and vice versa. In general, it just means, we owe it to one another (husbands/wives) to be kind to them. Men, don't be rough with your wives. Women, don't be self-seeking.

But back to your point, it is a plain truth that women make more sacrifices than men do ...on average. It's common to see a man work 9 to 5, get evenings and weekends off while his wife works 24/7 and barely time to sleep (expects to perform in the bedroom). Even if she earns no paycheck, she works very hard.

It's not unbiblical for a man to clean up after himself. If a man puts his clothes into a hamper instead of on the floor, puts his shoes in a designated place, or takes his dishes to the sink and rinses them off after he eats ....or God forbid he give his wife one day a month on a weekend when she doesn't have to cook, wash laundry, do dishes, vacuum the floor, etc. It's not unbiblical,.nor is it a sin. She works 24/7 ....he works 9 to 5 and maybe half a Saturday now and then. It's just called "gratitude."

If he thinks dishes are a woman's job ...then pick up after yourself and take the trash out, don't pee on the commode seat or floor, and teach your boys the same. Play and spend time with the children to give your wife an hour or so to rest in the evening after supper. See? ....partnership.

The Proverbs 31 woman had servants. She didn't do everything. AND ...she worked both inside and outside the home. It can be done. If both parties are working that hard and diligently, imagine the joy and the successes a husband and wife could achieve.

Wrangler · Mar 15, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
If a marriage fails, there will be areas where both parties could have made better choices. But a failed marriage isn't always the fault of the wife.

Invoking general platitudes is not the way to triumph over feminism. In theory, responsibility for failure is (partially) on the wife. In practice, all responsibility is denied on the grounds that the wife is not always the fault of the wife.

Blaming people - men and women - is not the way to triumph over feminism. The way to triumph over feminism is to recognize how its principles in practice are evil. In this case, how feminist laws subsidize divorce, glorify a woman’s unstable (changing) emotional state (happiness) as a god all should be sacrificed for, encourage women to undermine their own happiness and poison relationships between people, between men and women.

Wrangler · Mar 15, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
Women are naturally nurturing and giving of themselves. Men are instructed to be protectors, providers, and lovers ...to show due benevolence to their wife, even.

See that? You hold women as naturally virtuous while men have to live up to the responsibilities they were taught. That’s the evil of feminism: only one sex has virtue while the other sex only has responsibilities, deemed that they rarely meet.

Where is the rest of the 2 x 2 matrix, where the natural virtues of men are listed and the responsibilities women have to live up to what they were taught?

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Wrangler said:
See that? You hold women as naturally virtuous while men have to live up to the responsibilities they were taught. That’s the evil of feminism: only one sex has virtue while the other sex only has responsibilities, deemed that they rarely meet.

I don't think that it's "feminist" to acknowledge that women are naturally nurturers. There are exceptions, of course... and I have seen that as well. I'm sure there are some men who are protectors, as that is how God created them. Adam was instructed to keep the garden, for instance. His job was to keep the serpent out of the garden. But he let that ball drop ...and he stood by and watched Eve be deceived. He didn't stop her. She was deceived, and Adam willfully sinned. It seems this process plays out still to this day. Why did Eve believe that she couldn't even touch the tree or she would die? That was not what God said. Adam could have corrected her. But she touched the tree and nothing happened ....so doubt came in, and she decided to eat... all while Adam silently watched.

Let's just say, both men and women have responsibilities. Women nurture ...men protect. And yet, men can be nurturing as well. And women can be extremely protective of their children!

I don't see anything wrong with my statements. Why take so much offense?

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Wrangler said:
Where is the rest of the 2 x 2 matrix, where the natural virtues of men are listed and the responsibilities women have to live up to what they were taught?

Read my posts again ...and acknowledge to places where I have outlined those things. I share a lot from my own experiences, and of what I have observed. Society is broken. Perfect marriages do not exist. If they work, both have to make sacrifices, and often there will be times when one is lacking while the other gives ....and often, one party will give and give and give only to still have their marriage fail.

Wrangler · Mar 15, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
I don't think that it's "feminist" to acknowledge that women are naturally nurturers.

No but it is feminism to ignore the virtues of only the feminine sex - while claiming to strive for equality.

Wrangler · Mar 15, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
Read my posts again ...and acknowledge to places where I have outlined those things.

You feel it is your place to command me, assert your virtue of being fair while not actually presenting evidence.

Wynona · Mar 15, 2025

Not feeling the need to argue anymore or wanting to. I think Ive learned all Im going to learn from the ones opposing me.

8e5858cccdbade35428138549cbc12b9 (1).jpg

Naomanos · Mar 15, 2025

Wynona said:
Not feeling the need to argue anymore or wanting to. I think Ive learned all Im going to learn from the ones opposing me.

View attachment 59900

No one has said that work that is paid is the only worthwhile work.

TLHKAJ · Mar 15, 2025

Naomanos said:
No one has said that work that is paid is the only worthwhile work.

Exactly. And yet, a woman can work and get paid and still be a keeper in the home. (Psalm 31) That woman had servants. And yet she rose early to feed her household. She made fabrics, garments, bought real estate and planted a crop on it. She obviously made a lot of money to bring into the household running multiple business ventures. And her husband's heart safely trusted in her ...her children called her blessed.

Mink57 · Mar 16, 2025

TLHKAJ said:
Exactly. And yet, a woman can work and get paid and still be a keeper in the home. (Psalm 31) That woman had servants. And yet she rose early to feed her household. She made fabrics, garments, bought real estate and planted a crop on it. She obviously made a lot of money to bring into the household running multiple business ventures. And her husband's heart safely trusted in her ...her children called her blessed.

Yup. And yet nowhere in that Proverb did it say that the wife was "ordered" to do so by her husband.

She was a working woman.

To the OP: I don't know how many men or women have put you down for NOT wanting to be a housewife. Or how many men or women have put you down for WANTING to be a housewife. The majority of men and women I know these days, would have NO ISSUE with *YOUR* choice to be a wife and a homemaker. If being a homemaker works for your marriage, then so be it.

But you don't get to tell other women that *your* way of marriage should work for ALL...and use the bible to try to justify your position.

The bible can be viewed in many different ways. Who is to say that *your* way is the only right way? You might keep showing that "women are to be the keepers of home...." but is that ALL women are suppose to do?

The bible never said that that's ALL women are to do.

Wrangler · Mar 16, 2025

Mink57 said:
And yet nowhere in that Proverb did it say that the wife was "ordered" to do so by her husband.

What an insufferable EGO! A good person does not need to be ordered, directed perhaps. My boss directs me. Chafe do you at the divine order.

Wynona · Mar 16, 2025

Mink57 · Mar 16, 2025

Wrangler said:
What an insufferable EGO! A good person does not need to be ordered, directed perhaps. My boss directs me. Chafe do you at the divine order.

Mark 10:18: "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good-except God alone."

Talk about an insufferable ego, Wrangler...

Ritajanice · Mar 16, 2025

Wynona said:
View attachment 59910

I wish I was married, I’d be doing exactly the same,.....God is the Head, then the husband, then the wives submit to your husbands.......

Strength and Honor: Triumphing over Feminism

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