Babylon – The Great City - Jerusalem -Then and Today!
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
Looks who is complaining about avoiding a question.
You didn't answer the question I already asked you.
What are the names of the ten kings which you claim the lamb has already destroyed?
These ten kings.
Daniel 7
24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.
27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The two witnesses who are killed and then resurected 3 days later at the time of the seventh Trump when the kingdom becomes Christs.
Those two witnesses.
So a different 10 kings that you asked about from the book of Revelation
Your just avoiding my question again it was completely different type of question whether or not what Jesus predicted happened. If your answer is no then you have to ask yourself some serious questions about who Jesus is? I really have no idea why you can't answer it
I did answer your question, no I don't know the names but that has no bearing on the fact as Rome did concur nations and ruled them.
If you read Josephes book that he wrote while documenting the Romas seige of Jerusalem while it happened you will see that he stated that the Roman army was made up from warriors from many different concurred nations. Thus if I don't know the names of their kings that doesn't change the fact that Rome concured and comsumed many different nations.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
Wow your a real piece of work no need in debating with you its a waste of effort
tailgator
Well-Known Member
You call that a debate?
I think you have proven the beast and the ten horns have not been cast into a lake of fire yet.
If in fact the Lord had already destroyed the beast and ten horns,you would have been able to name them.
You couldn't.
Well here are notes I compiled over the years on the two witness that seem the best fit and understanding of them. For me anyway.
There's a bit to absorb...deeper thoughts, not just surface thinking here....
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Rev Chapter 11: John is told to measure the Temple of God, which is the Body of Christ, the Church. [John 2.19-21; 1 Corinthians 3.16; Ephesians 2.19-22] The “outer court” of the temple and the city of Jerusalem (symbolic representations of apostate Israel and non-believers) are left to the Romans as a collection of nations to trample upon for 42 months. (February 67 – August 70 AD).
John sees two witnesses (symbolic representations of the law and the prophets which pointed to Jesus) who mirror Jesus ‘life and “the great city” Jerusalem (apostate Israel). They are depicted as being “conquered” by Rome, but are resurrected and taken to heaven, a depiction of the Church’s victory in Christ. “The great city” Jerusalem is destroyed. The seventh trumpet is blown, and the Kingdom of God overcomes the world, and it’s a depiction of the future end of the world when all are either rewarded or destroyed.
Sequence of events leading up to the demise of Jerusalem and the end of that age.
After the Crucifixion of Christ, for about another 30 years or so later, the two witnesses were still alive and well in Jerusalem. The new generation of Christians carries the messages of the 2 witnesses - Moses of the Law of God, and Elijah representing the prophets who spoke of the gospel of God during their own time.
The two witnesses of true spiritual truth purposely instigated and aroused the local authorities of the Pharisees and Sadducees to persecute the Hebrew Christians. They hated the Two Witnesses of God and the Hebrew Christian of Abraham's Promise.
The two witnesses brought a message of grave judgment to Jerusalem if they continued to reject Christ, and not turning away as repentance for their evil acts of spiritual idolatry.
In 66 AD, a zealot skirmish broke out within the walls of Jerusalem. These people became restless and wanted power and a seat at the table of local governance. It drew the attention of a Roman General Gallus. He brought a small army down from the North from Syria and temporarily placed Jerusalem under siege.
The effect of the Romans' presence excited the Nationalists, the zealots, with their cry for political representation on par with the religious elite. They stirred up the locals and appealed to their national loyalty. They even assembled a small army of several thousand.
The Romans for the first time being outside of the walls of the City, in attack formation, placed the local elite in a quandary as they were always in league with the Romans, and against the Christians. They had no choice and eventually recognized the zealots' growing political power.
Another effect of the Roman presence caused the Christians to flee out of Jerusalem and surrounding areas into the hills, as they remembered what Christ said about the time Roman soldiers would surround the walls of Jerusalem. This was their signal to flee with haste, and they took it. By doing so, this also caused the two witnesses to continue to preach within Jerusalem more vigorously, for 3.5 years, preaching repentance and judgment and the gospel of salvation, from God.
Suddenly, the Romans soldiers left, and the zealot army pursued them and defeated them. The zealots returned as national heroes and now held a political edge. These zealots now believed that God was on their side. That God was going to intervene and rescue Jerusalem as he had done throughout its history. So now the two witnesses were down on the streets, dead, gone, forgotten, trodden underfoot by the new spiritual thinking of a new rejuvenation of God's protection and salvation for Jerusalem once again, as in the OT.
Now the famous Roman general Vespasian with his 60,000 troops then came down for the Euphrates after hearing of Gallus' defeat, and systematic pillaged, burnt down villages and towns and killed all in his path going South. Many escaped his path and fled into Jerusalem thinking it was a safe haven. And thus, its population grew very quickly in the process. How ironic that fleeing into Jerusalem was still considered God's holy safe haven after all they had witnessed from the Romans.
So Jerusalem celebrated this empty message of hope and salvation, by partying and gifting each other. They also got rid of, by clearing them from their memories, the two witnesses or so they thought.
By the beginning of 70 AD, the remaining 'dying' as embers of a fire, the few voices representing the two witnesses, preaching repentance and imminent judgement, took the true spirit of God of Israel with them to the hills, or they were martyred. They were all raised up! What was left in Jerusalem when Titus, the new god of Jerusalem's people came inside its walls and the temple, was spiritual emptiness and chaos. The spirit of the Jews were gone, and only an empty shell remained for good.
The atmosphere was one of simultaneous despair, famine, death and destruction, and misplaced hope in God's imagined revenge. Insanity of knowing all will die soon ensued until the end. And they continued in a doomsday type of festive mood, with celebrations of false hope and false joy. It was finished, indeed.
The two witnesses are symbolic of the prophets and the law which point to Jesus. Why does God call them the two witnesses? Why the term witness? That means that they had to witness something. Is it because they are witnesses and pointed to Jesus?
It took two witnesses to witness a testimony and two witnesses to witness a crime. Could the testimony be about who Jesus is and the crime be what Israel was guilty of?
Moses represents the law and like the witnesses turned water into blood and struck the earth with all types of plagues. Elijah represents the prophets and like the witnesses he could shut the sky up so that it couldn’t rain and had fire devour his enemies. These two are the two olive trees and are also the two golden lamp stands the two anointed ones that stand before the lord. This is referred to in Zechariah chapter 4 and Jesus is also the anointed one.
Could the fire out of their mouths be the word that has power to condemn and convict? They are also dressed in sackcloth which represents repentance. Jews reading this would understand the meanings.
They mirror Jesus’ life as they also have a 3 ½ year ministry and can’t be killed until there time has come. They are killed by the beast (which I believe is a demon behind the power of Rome) and Rome also killed Jesus. They are killed in Jerusalem just like Jesus was. They are also dead for 3 ½ days like Jesus was and they are raised back to life and go up to heaven. Both Jesus and the two witnesses had earthquakes around the time of their death and there was also an earthquake when Jesus rose back to life.
Why is it 7000 people died in the earthquake? Why the number 7000? Is it because 7 is the number of completeness and perfection to God and 1000 means ‘many.’ It also says in Revelation 11:13 that people gave glory to God after the earthquake just like some people realized that Jesus was the son of God after the earthquake when Jesus died.
Why is Jerusalem also called Sodom and Egypt in Revelation 11:8. Because Sodom represents the morality of Jerusalem and Egypt represents the oppression of/by Jerusalem.
These two witnesses torment people with the word as their words torment and convicts people just like Jesus words did. The Pharisees were happy when Jesus died because he exposed them for who they were, and they may have even given gifts to one another when they celebrated His death.
Revelation is the unveiling of Jesus, and these two witnesses help to reveal to us who is Jesus.
Verse 3
They wear sack cloths as the symbol for profoundly changed people, the true believers in Christ who repented and are humble before God.Verse 8
John clearly states: Babylon is the city wherein our Lord was crucified, which is also called Sodom and Egypt (Revelation 11.8). Later, the whore that is Babylon does not have seven hills, but rather sits upon the beast whose seven heads are the seven hills (of Rome). And so, Jerusalem colludes with Rome to crucify Jesus and cause the persecution of Christians.----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That identification is pretty clear: Sodom—Egypt—Jerusalem, all in one hand, each describing the other. God is giving evidence here to solve the identity of the prostitute by comparing Israel to Sodom and Egypt. Sodom is noted in all of the history of mankind for its sexual sins, and Egypt is known to all biblical students of a harsh and exacting slavery of the Israelites.
These two stunning and dramatic comparisons are of Israel's immoral characteristics, so why not compare Israel to Babylon? He has already compared Israel to Sodom and Egypt. Could it get any worse? None of those is a beautiful comparison. Every one of them is putting Jerusalem and Israel on the spiritual and moral level that they deserve—to be compared to Sodom and to Egypt. God reserved His harshest judgments for those who should know better but waste their gifts in prideful self-indulgence.
John W. Ritenbaugh
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tailgator
Well-Known Member
So you believe the two witnesses mirror Jesus life ???
I don't remember ever reading that Jesus spent all his time tormenting people and killing people by saying the word fire. That is so unlike Jesus.
Also,the two witnesses only occupy Jerusalem 42 months.That us 1260 days on the Hebrew calendar.
The two witnesses do not occupy Jerusalem for 30 years.
Revelation 11
11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
You did not read my post well enough. What words you embolden was the 3 1/2 years in sack cloths only before the destruction of Jerusalem...read my post again. Must understand the context. The two witnesses were alive and well well before this time of course...dig!
Ok, so are Gentile saints going to be given the promised land or is it only going to be given to Jewish saints?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The two witnesses only prophecy for 1260 days.That is 42 months .They same amount of time the king of the norths armed forces occupy Jerusalem in Daniel 11.
It's the same 42 months the people of Israel recieve the mark of the beast and the saints are killed.
Also.Jesus is nothing like the two witnesses.Jesus did not torment people and kill people by saying the word fire.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The resurected Israelites who did not worship the beast,it's image,nor receive it's mark,reign over the nations in the Lords land.This takes place after the king of Babylon is destroyed.
Isaiah 14
The Lord will have compassion on Jacob;
once again he will choose Israel
and will settle them in their own land.
Foreigners will join them
and unite with the descendants of Jacob.
2 Nations will take them
and bring them to their own place.
And Israel will take possession of the nations
and make them male and female servants in the Lord’s land.
They will make captives of their captors
and rule over their oppressors.
3 On the day the Lord gives you relief from your suffering and turmoil and from the harsh labor forced on you,
4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:
How the oppressor has come to an end!
How his fury[a] has ended!
5 The Lord has broken the rod of the wicked,
the scepter of the rulers,
6 which in anger struck down peoples
with unceasing blows,
and in fury subdued nations
with relentless aggression.
Like I've said before,Babylon is destroyed on the day of the Lord.The Iranians will be in Babylon ransacking the houses and raping the women on that day.On the day of the Lord,All of the sinners will be destroyed out of the land.
Isaiah 13
A Prophecy Against Babylon
9
See, the day of the Lord is coming
—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—
to make the land desolate
and destroy the sinners within it.
10 The stars of heaven and their constellations
will not show their light.
The rising sun will be darkened
and the moon will not give its light.
11 I will punish the world for its evil,
the wicked for their sins.
I will put an end to the arrogance of the haughty
and will humble the pride of the ruthless.
12 I will make people scarcer than pure gold,
more rare than the gold of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble;
and the earth will shake from its place
at the wrath of the Lord Almighty,
in the day of his burning anger.
14 Like a hunted gazelle,
like sheep without a shepherd,
they will all return to their own people,
they will flee to their native land.
15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through;
all who are caught will fall by the sword.
16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes;
their houses will be looted and their wives violated.
17 See, I will stir up against them the Medes,
who do not care for silver
and have no delight in gold.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
We have been witnessing the king of Babylon smiting the Philistines(Gaza) with his rod for more than year now .
The Philistines will rejoice when the king of Babylon is defeated by the Medes(Iranians).Then the end will come and everyone in the promised land are melted.
Zion is founded after the king of Babylon is destroyed.
Isaiah 14
Do not rejoice, all you Philistines,
that the rod that struck you is broken;
from the root of that snake will spring up a viper,
its fruit will be a darting, venomous serpent.
30 The poorest of the poor will find pasture,
and the needy will lie down in safety.
But your root I will destroy by famine;
it will slay your survivors.
31 Wail, you gate! Howl, you city!
Melt away, all you Philistines!
A cloud of smoke comes from the north,
and there is not a straggler in its ranks.
32 What answer shall be given
to the envoys of that nation?
“The Lord has established Zion,
and in her his afflicted people will find refuge.”
This is the king of Zion
Zech 9:9
Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Ok, so if all you said is true then currently a person who is a Gentile would be better off becoming a Jew now so that in a future millennium they can reign over the nations. If a person remains a Gentile then they are the ones who will be ruled over.
Are you planning on becoming a Jew or are you going to remain a Gentile and have the Jews rule over you in the millennium?
tailgator
Well-Known Member
I would simply be happy to dwell on the kingdom of heaven.I have no desire to reign over anyone.
The 144000 Israelites who are redeemed from the soil will reign with Christ.
I'm not one of the144,000.
Let’s say you meet a Jew when you’re witnessing to others about becoming a Christian. Why would any Jew want to become a Christian now if your view is correct? I certainly wouldn’t want to join another religion that said Christians will rule over them in the future, it would be obviously better to remain a Christian and not join the other religion.
You might think you’ll be good just getting into the kingdom but you make it sound like it would be better for nearly everyone else to become a Jew.
tailgator
Well-Known Member
The 144000 Israelites are the same religion I am.
They are christians.
The 144000 follow the lamb of God where he goes .
Not an easy task to walk in Jesus footsteps in Israel and they are killed for their testimony of Jesus.They are betrayed to death by their own Jewish families .
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