I may as well just say it.
- Thread starter 2bme
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Thank you for sharing.
In my opinion, Evidence is the key to belief.
We believe A. And we see evidence that makes A true.
That solidifies your belief.
And as time goes on there comes Experience. If you get the same outcome over and over then that becomes true.
But not everyone looks for the evidence, they just believe because they are told it is so.
But if you want to know if your belief is true then you have to prove it.
Is it important that you convince others of your beliefs? There is where I believe the ego interferes in society, because everyone wants to be right in their own mind.
I believe if I plant this seed something will grow. So you plant the seed and wait to see if your belief is true. Evidence.
Now faith is believing something before you see the evidence.
The question is, does your faith have any influence over that evidence?
Are beliefs and faith made up of energy? Do they have any power to manipulate an outcome?
If I believe that something is bad then the outcome for me will be that it is bad. Until I see evidence that contradicts that belief.
It's a heavy subject for sure and one worth contemplating.
The chaos we see in the world is mostly caused by fear. Fear of change, fear of lack, fear of the unknown, fear od being bullied, or not succeeding.
If we could eradicate fear, the world would be less chaotic and more open to discovery and evidence.
Thankyou again
Hugs
In my opinion, Evidence is the key to belief.
We believe A. And we see evidence that makes A true.
That solidifies your belief.
And as time goes on there comes Experience. If you get the same outcome over and over then that becomes true.
But not everyone looks for the evidence, they just believe because they are told it is so.
But if you want to know if your belief is true then you have to prove it.
Is it important that you convince others of your beliefs? There is where I believe the ego interferes in society, because everyone wants to be right in their own mind.
I believe if I plant this seed something will grow. So you plant the seed and wait to see if your belief is true. Evidence.
Now faith is believing something before you see the evidence.
The question is, does your faith have any influence over that evidence?
Are beliefs and faith made up of energy? Do they have any power to manipulate an outcome?
If I believe that something is bad then the outcome for me will be that it is bad. Until I see evidence that contradicts that belief.
It's a heavy subject for sure and one worth contemplating.
The chaos we see in the world is mostly caused by fear. Fear of change, fear of lack, fear of the unknown, fear od being bullied, or not succeeding.
If we could eradicate fear, the world would be less chaotic and more open to discovery and evidence.
Thankyou again
Hugs
There are things you've mentioned that I can see are not true. Like the idea of fear being a problem to be eradicated. Experiencing a fear response is a very primitive response, for warning us of our lack of knowledge at the time we encounter an unknown situation. It would be unwise to block our natural fear chemical, because we would not know how to react if or when danger may come our way.
When you said evidence is the key to belief, why is it the key to belief, or how is it the key to belief. What do you mean by key?
Last edited:
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
There is the natural fear like getting chased by a bear or a lion. Even walking down a dark alley in the middle of the night.
These are not irrational fears, it's commonsense. It's survival instinct.
Paranoia on the other hand can be based on irrational fear. You might be afraid to say something because someone won't agree with you.
Brooding over future events that might happen but never come to pass.
Example: When covid hit in 2019 and the world was screaming you have to get vaccinated or you will die or you will kill someone, I did not comply. When they said you will go to jail for going outside without a mask, I did not comply. When they said you won't be able to keep your job, go to events, walk on the beach, go to church or you will be punished, I said bring it.
I believed in my own immunity system. I believed that I was in control of my own destiny. I did my own research and looked for real evidence that what they was saying was true.
What I found was a lot of bullying and bribery and flexing of muscles. What I found was a lot of fudging of the facts and numbers.
They said it was safe and effective although other people were experiencing complications with the vaccine. I leaned on their experience to determine if my beliefs had any standing.
Their evidence was the key or the proof to my belief. I had no fear of covid because I have no fear of death. We all die at some point. Some by accident, some by age, some by circumstance, in any event we all die, so why worry about it. It is inevitable.
Some people believe that there is life after death. Others don't believe and say that death is the end of your existence.
The choice to believe one way or the other is your own.
I have not experienced life after death. I have no evidence, no first hand knowledge.
What I do have is other peoples testimony that say they witnessed such things, but I myself have not.
But what I do have is faith. In my faith I believe that there is life after death. And when I die and if I wake that will be the evidence I have that my faith is true. If I die and I don't wake up, then I will never know and it won't matter at that point. LOL
When you are a child you trust your parents. They teach you about Santa Claus the Easter Bunny, the toothe fairy, and you believe them because you trust them. On christmas morning there are presents under the tree, on easter there is a basket of candy and when you lose a tooth there is something under your pillow when you wake up. This would be the evidence that what your parents told you was true.
But when you get older and you become mature you find out that all these things you believed in were falsley manufactured.
For what purpose? To learn to experience disappontment, deception? To learn how to discern between truth and lies regardless of who places them before you. I think it is a learning experience even though parents don't realize that that is what they are doing by teaching their children how to mistrust and question deception.
Everyone has a belief system until it is proven true or false to the one believing.
And everyone always trying to prove that their belief is the only truth. Well, it might be for them but not for all.
Everyone has to find their own truth. And new truths and deceptions are born everyday.
It is up to the individual to wade through life seeking that which is good in their own life.
There are many forms of governments. Some communist, some democratic, some socialist. Each government believes that their way of governing is the right way. But over time the evidence will bear itself out by the people that are governed.
It's when one form of government tries to push it's will on another form of government that wars are created.
The same goes for different households. This family raises their children this way and others another way. It's when one household believes their kids are raised better than anothers. This causes animosity and division in a community.
Life is complicated lol.
If you have to believe in something at least believe in yourself. Don't let other people make you believe something you are not.
I am a caucasion woman living in a world where people are trying to persuade me that because I am white that makes me a racist.
I know I'm not racist. I don't judge people by the color of their skin or what they believe. I do judge people according to their actions.
Their actions are the evidence of their beliefs which may conflict with my own beliefs. But that doesn't make me racist.
What do you believe life is all about? Why are you here? Are you here by purpose or by accident?
I believe everyone was created for a purpose, but that's just my belief. And the evidence of that is in watching the world go round and how people interact with it. Whether good or bad everyone has a purpose and is here for a reason. And I believe the reason is to be able to judge ones own beliefs by the actions of others. You wouldn't know what good is if there was no bad to compare it to.
And it is in this comparison that brings evidence to our own beliefs.
And who determines what is good and what is bad?
I'll leave that up to your own beliefs.
Hugs
I'll discuss your post in depth later, but I want to leave you with one thought. If a belief can be trusted as a valid form of truth, then why do we notice people having drastically different truths in the same religious faith?Thank you.
There is the natural fear like getting chased by a bear or a lion. Even walking down a dark alley in the middle of the night.
These are not irrational fears, it's commonsense. It's survival instinct.
Paranoia on the other hand can be based on irrational fear. You might be afraid to say something because someone won't agree with you.
Brooding over future events that might happen but never come to pass.
Example: When covid hit in 2019 and the world was screaming you have to get vaccinated or you will die or you will kill someone, I did not comply. When they said you will go to jail for going outside without a mask, I did not comply. When they said you won't be able to keep your job, go to events, walk on the beach, go to church or you will be punished, I said bring it.
I believed in my own immunity system. I believed that I was in control of my own destiny. I did my own research and looked for real evidence that what they was saying was true.
What I found was a lot of bullying and bribery and flexing of muscles. What I found was a lot of fudging of the facts and numbers.
They said it was safe and effective although other people were experiencing complications with the vaccine. I leaned on their experience to determine if my beliefs had any standing.
Their evidence was the key or the proof to my belief. I had no fear of covid because I have no fear of death. We all die at some point. Some by accident, some by age, some by circumstance, in any event we all die, so why worry about it. It is inevitable.
Some people believe that there is life after death. Others don't believe and say that death is the end of your existence.
The choice to believe one way or the other is your own.
I have not experienced life after death. I have no evidence, no first hand knowledge.
What I do have is other peoples testimony that say they witnessed such things, but I myself have not.
But what I do have is faith. In my faith I believe that there is life after death. And when I die and if I wake that will be the evidence I have that my faith is true. If I die and I don't wake up, then I will never know and it won't matter at that point. LOL
When you are a child you trust your parents. They teach you about Santa Claus the Easter Bunny, the toothe fairy, and you believe them because you trust them. On christmas morning there are presents under the tree, on easter there is a basket of candy and when you lose a tooth there is something under your pillow when you wake up. This would be the evidence that what your parents told you was true.
But when you get older and you become mature you find out that all these things you believed in were falsley manufactured.
For what purpose? To learn to experience disappontment, deception? To learn how to discern between truth and lies regardless of who places them before you. I think it is a learning experience even though parents don't realize that that is what they are doing by teaching their children how to mistrust and question deception.
Everyone has a belief system until it is proven true or false to the one believing.
And everyone always trying to prove that their belief is the only truth. Well, it might be for them but not for all.
Everyone has to find their own truth. And new truths and deceptions are born everyday.
It is up to the individual to wade through life seeking that which is good in their own life.
There are many forms of governments. Some communist, some democratic, some socialist. Each government believes that their way of governing is the right way. But over time the evidence will bear itself out by the people that are governed.
It's when one form of government tries to push it's will on another form of government that wars are created.
The same goes for different households. This family raises their children this way and others another way. It's when one household believes their kids are raised better than anothers. This causes animosity and division in a community.
Life is complicated lol.
If you have to believe in something at least believe in yourself. Don't let other people make you believe something you are not.
I am a caucasion woman living in a world where people are trying to persuade me that because I am white that makes me a racist.
I know I'm not racist. I don't judge people by the color of their skin or what they believe. I do judge people according to their actions.
Their actions are the evidence of their beliefs which may conflict with my own beliefs. But that doesn't make me racist.
What do you believe life is all about? Why are you here? Are you here by purpose or by accident?
I believe everyone was created for a purpose, but that's just my belief. And the evidence of that is in watching the world go round and how people interact with it. Whether good or bad everyone has a purpose and is here for a reason. And I believe the reason is to be able to judge ones own beliefs by the actions of others. You wouldn't know what good is if there was no bad to compare it to.
And it is in this comparison that brings evidence to our own beliefs.
And who determines what is good and what is bad?
I'll leave that up to your own beliefs.
Hugs
I don't have much battery power left, so I'll have to keep this short.Thank you.
There is the natural fear like getting chased by a bear or a lion. Even walking down a dark alley in the middle of the night.
These are not irrational fears, it's commonsense. It's survival instinct.
Paranoia on the other hand can be based on irrational fear. You might be afraid to say something because someone won't agree with you.
Brooding over future events that might happen but never come to pass.
Example: When covid hit in 2019 and the world was screaming you have to get vaccinated or you will die or you will kill someone, I did not comply. When they said you will go to jail for going outside without a mask, I did not comply. When they said you won't be able to keep your job, go to events, walk on the beach, go to church or you will be punished, I said bring it.
I believed in my own immunity system. I believed that I was in control of my own destiny. I did my own research and looked for real evidence that what they was saying was true.
What I found was a lot of bullying and bribery and flexing of muscles. What I found was a lot of fudging of the facts and numbers.
They said it was safe and effective although other people were experiencing complications with the vaccine. I leaned on their experience to determine if my beliefs had any standing.
Their evidence was the key or the proof to my belief. I had no fear of covid because I have no fear of death. We all die at some point. Some by accident, some by age, some by circumstance, in any event we all die, so why worry about it. It is inevitable.
Some people believe that there is life after death. Others don't believe and say that death is the end of your existence.
The choice to believe one way or the other is your own.
I have not experienced life after death. I have no evidence, no first hand knowledge.
What I do have is other peoples testimony that say they witnessed such things, but I myself have not.
But what I do have is faith. In my faith I believe that there is life after death. And when I die and if I wake that will be the evidence I have that my faith is true. If I die and I don't wake up, then I will never know and it won't matter at that point. LOL
When you are a child you trust your parents. They teach you about Santa Claus the Easter Bunny, the toothe fairy, and you believe them because you trust them. On christmas morning there are presents under the tree, on easter there is a basket of candy and when you lose a tooth there is something under your pillow when you wake up. This would be the evidence that what your parents told you was true.
But when you get older and you become mature you find out that all these things you believed in were falsley manufactured.
For what purpose? To learn to experience disappontment, deception? To learn how to discern between truth and lies regardless of who places them before you. I think it is a learning experience even though parents don't realize that that is what they are doing by teaching their children how to mistrust and question deception.
Everyone has a belief system until it is proven true or false to the one believing.
And everyone always trying to prove that their belief is the only truth. Well, it might be for them but not for all.
Everyone has to find their own truth. And new truths and deceptions are born everyday.
It is up to the individual to wade through life seeking that which is good in their own life.
There are many forms of governments. Some communist, some democratic, some socialist. Each government believes that their way of governing is the right way. But over time the evidence will bear itself out by the people that are governed.
It's when one form of government tries to push it's will on another form of government that wars are created.
The same goes for different households. This family raises their children this way and others another way. It's when one household believes their kids are raised better than anothers. This causes animosity and division in a community.
Life is complicated lol.
If you have to believe in something at least believe in yourself. Don't let other people make you believe something you are not.
I am a caucasion woman living in a world where people are trying to persuade me that because I am white that makes me a racist.
I know I'm not racist. I don't judge people by the color of their skin or what they believe. I do judge people according to their actions.
Their actions are the evidence of their beliefs which may conflict with my own beliefs. But that doesn't make me racist.
What do you believe life is all about? Why are you here? Are you here by purpose or by accident?
I believe everyone was created for a purpose, but that's just my belief. And the evidence of that is in watching the world go round and how people interact with it. Whether good or bad everyone has a purpose and is here for a reason. And I believe the reason is to be able to judge ones own beliefs by the actions of others. You wouldn't know what good is if there was no bad to compare it to.
And it is in this comparison that brings evidence to our own beliefs.
And who determines what is good and what is bad?
I'll leave that up to your own beliefs.
Hugs
A natural fear response to a unknown situation isn't a enjoyable experience for anyone. It's supposed to be an unpleasant sensation to stop you in your tracks.
As for people who suffer with chronic fear, it is another unfortunate side effect of applying a belief to a unknown situation.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I think it comes down to interpretation, or one's level of understanding.
I see it as a classroom. People enter in at different grade levels.
I call myself a Christian and my faith is in Jesus Christ. I consider him my King and my Lord. And I read what is written out of the King James Version of the Bible. And there are millions of other people that feel the same exact basic way. This is our fundamental truth. We all have this same faith in common to each other.
Then comes the teachings of the Apostles and their guidence for how we should all strive to live the Christian way of life.
Jesus himself being the example by which we live our lives.
There are differing interpretations people believe and apply to their faith depending upon how they conceptualize the idea of what is written.
I'm not very good at technical things but I will try to make it simple.
Everyone in the classroom gets an engine. What you do with that engine depends on how you interpret the instructions given with it.
Some might build a lawnmower, another a weed whacker, someone may turn it into a motorcycle or even a car.
People modify their faith according to how they read the instructions.
Everyone has the same manual but the end product doesn't necessarily come out as everyone else's vision of the end product.
So you end up with motorcycle shops and car dealerships and gardening equipment stores. These would be the different denominations in a religion.
There are many differing ideas of how the manual should be read. But the engine is still the same engine regardless what profession you choose.
This is where you find the divisions between the faiths of religion.
The problem is they can't see how eventually they all work together and can compliment eachother. Instead they rather argue over who's car is better or who's lawnmower cuts more grass. When the truth is they are all equally true in themselves.
When a "teacher" believes that their interpretation is the only truth, they collect a gatering of likeminded people and create a following.
This is the church that this "teacher" leads. Like a shepherd among sheep.
But all teachers have one Teacher and that is Christ.
Not every teacher teaches the same thing. And some teachers can lead the student away from the original manual by wanting to rewrite the manual themselves. Then instead of lawnmowers and cars you end up with armoured cars and jets that carry ammunition.
Instead of trying to find peace and commonality, they create words as weapons to attack other peoples beliefs.
The Ego and pride, being famous or getting rich off the manual for themselves instead of the church as a whole.
There are different levels of understanding the Bible as well.
They are called carnal knowledge, that which is tangible like eating or not eating certain foods. Attending or not attending certain events. How you wear your clothes or keep your hair. These are carnal or earthy things of knowledge and beliefs.
You have to go to church on whatever day or your christianity comes into question. You have to cover your head when you pray, etc.
Then there is spiritual knowledge, that which is intangible like emotions, compassion, things that come from the heart.
In my faith as a Christian I believe the Bible should be read from a spiritual point of view, while others believe it should be taken literal and carnal. That can cause division as well.
There are many divisions. One for instance is the teaching concerning speaking in tongues.
Some believe that this is a special gift and only God and angels can understand what is being said. I believe that it means being able to speak in different languages like greek or english or russian or chinese.
That doesn't mean the latter isn't true. I just haven't experienced it and so I have no evidence to back up that in my faith.
Not every farmer grows the same crops. But when they are combined they can make a mighty fine meal.
It's being able to find the commonground that matters. And to learn to live by and walk in that fundamental belief.
And to me, that fundamental belief is: God is love and we should immitate his love to others as he has given his love to us.
Or in other words, the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have them done unto you.
But not everyone believes the same, or they say they believe but don't live by their beliefs.
And that's why there is so much confusion in the world.
We have to get back to the fundamentals.
Hugs
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
If the worse thing that can happen to you is that you are going to die, and you have no fear of dying, then you really have no need of fear.
I know it is a natural reaction to circumstances. But when you can override that natural reaction with a spiritual calmness from within, then fear can't touch you.
Hugs
You know my opinion about social disorder and chaos, that it's believing and defending a belief causing our societal divide. But I'm like flogging a dead horse here, I mean a dead horse in as much that what I expected to be understood is a dead horse. That doesn't mean I'm wrong, it just means the theory about the impact of believing is not under consideration. I have attempted to pass on this theory to certain people in academic fields; same result. It seems to me that you don't have to be a believer within a religious setting, they all have them in some degree and are as equally dismissive. It is true that the sensation of fear is a widely universal experience undeniably so. As for what you suggest in regards to validating a belief, I'd have to disagree. Why? Because a truth or obtaining accurate understanding about any matter itself must to be open for speculation and criticism by the observer. If the observer is unable to disprove what it is they assume to be true because of feelings, biases, societal pressure's, then this wouldn't be a free and open way to be personally assured.
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I once read a something about string theory.
That at the absolute smallest point is this elusive thing that changes if you look at it.
I also read that it's been debunked but just for the sake of the theory.
Everybody is a string. They have their own vibration. Only you know you. 10 people can look at you but they will never know you the way you know yourself. And this is true for everyone.
You are your own speculator. I am my own speculator. You observe your being in a certain way and I observe my being a certain way.
My truth may not be the same as your truth because we each have our own seperate being even though we reside in the same space and time.
If more people spent more time reflecting on themselves rather than judging themselves by others, or judging others by their own beliefs, there might be less chaos.
But we are thrust together in this thing we call society where we are challenged every moment to judge everything.
I wouldn't wear my clothes like that. Why isn't my hair that color? Why do they act like that I couldn't be like that.
Always criticising always speculating, always judging others instead of judging oneself.
Be true to yourself.
I think that's what makes humanity different from other species. We rely on feelings and emotions, biases and societal pressures to determine our destination.
I feel I have somewhat of an advantage because I am almost 100% hermit. I live away from society in my little hut and can observe the world from a distance. I don't have to partake in the circus daily. And the only observation I have is through the tv or the computer of which I can turn either off whenever I choose.
I feel no pressure to believe anything that other people tell me to believe. I can make my own choices.
But as a human I can not escape emotions or desires or feelings. They are built into this machine we call a body.
I think some people have a larger dose than others. But we are not robots. Even cold and uncaring have their consequences.
The body that is dead has nothing. So there is something seperate from the body that generates belief or hope or want or need.
Life. What is life? What is the essence that seperates the dead from the living?
Something connects us all.
The power company generates the electriciy that runs along the pole and gets distributed among many different homes.
If the power goes out everybody is in the dark.
Everyone shares a lifeforce.
I think maybe something within this lifeforce is what makes us all share certain similar characteristics.
These characteristics can be emotions, feelings, biases, preferences, hopes, fears and beliefs.
The question is, where does the lifeforce come from, or where does it begin?
If your religious you call it God by one name or another. If your an atheist it's some kind of energy or power.
I think the difference between a spiritual/religious person and an atheist is that the spiritual person believes this power source is personal and has a specific role it plays in each individual. Where an athiest believe the power source is random and indifferent.
The great thing about life is that you get to choose your own belief. Everyone has their own truth.
I won't tell you your wrong or I'm right all I will do is share with you my truth. And you share your truth.
And we can acknowledge each others truth and still live in harmony if we choose. Or we can try to convince the other they are wrong which only brings division.
Enjoy the time we have in this life because it is only for a short time that we are here.
Why do we try to make things harder for others by trying to persuade them that it's my way or no way?
But we all do it and I chalk that up to Ego. Everyone has one of those too.
And that I believe is what makes us each unique in their own way. It is their identity. And it has a lot of pride.
And the only cure for that is humbleness.
Hugs
That at the absolute smallest point is this elusive thing that changes if you look at it.
I also read that it's been debunked but just for the sake of the theory.
Everybody is a string. They have their own vibration. Only you know you. 10 people can look at you but they will never know you the way you know yourself. And this is true for everyone.
You are your own speculator. I am my own speculator. You observe your being in a certain way and I observe my being a certain way.
My truth may not be the same as your truth because we each have our own seperate being even though we reside in the same space and time.
If more people spent more time reflecting on themselves rather than judging themselves by others, or judging others by their own beliefs, there might be less chaos.
But we are thrust together in this thing we call society where we are challenged every moment to judge everything.
I wouldn't wear my clothes like that. Why isn't my hair that color? Why do they act like that I couldn't be like that.
Always criticising always speculating, always judging others instead of judging oneself.
Be true to yourself.
I think that's what makes humanity different from other species. We rely on feelings and emotions, biases and societal pressures to determine our destination.
I feel I have somewhat of an advantage because I am almost 100% hermit. I live away from society in my little hut and can observe the world from a distance. I don't have to partake in the circus daily. And the only observation I have is through the tv or the computer of which I can turn either off whenever I choose.
I feel no pressure to believe anything that other people tell me to believe. I can make my own choices.
But as a human I can not escape emotions or desires or feelings. They are built into this machine we call a body.
I think some people have a larger dose than others. But we are not robots. Even cold and uncaring have their consequences.
The body that is dead has nothing. So there is something seperate from the body that generates belief or hope or want or need.
Life. What is life? What is the essence that seperates the dead from the living?
Something connects us all.
The power company generates the electriciy that runs along the pole and gets distributed among many different homes.
If the power goes out everybody is in the dark.
Everyone shares a lifeforce.
I think maybe something within this lifeforce is what makes us all share certain similar characteristics.
These characteristics can be emotions, feelings, biases, preferences, hopes, fears and beliefs.
The question is, where does the lifeforce come from, or where does it begin?
If your religious you call it God by one name or another. If your an atheist it's some kind of energy or power.
I think the difference between a spiritual/religious person and an atheist is that the spiritual person believes this power source is personal and has a specific role it plays in each individual. Where an athiest believe the power source is random and indifferent.
The great thing about life is that you get to choose your own belief. Everyone has their own truth.
I won't tell you your wrong or I'm right all I will do is share with you my truth. And you share your truth.
And we can acknowledge each others truth and still live in harmony if we choose. Or we can try to convince the other they are wrong which only brings division.
Enjoy the time we have in this life because it is only for a short time that we are here.
Why do we try to make things harder for others by trying to persuade them that it's my way or no way?
But we all do it and I chalk that up to Ego. Everyone has one of those too.
And that I believe is what makes us each unique in their own way. It is their identity. And it has a lot of pride.
And the only cure for that is humbleness.
Hugs
Similar threads
