Babylon – The Great City - Jerusalem -Then and Today!

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APAK

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Babylon – The Great City – Jerusalem- then and today​


Major premise #1: Three times this Babylon, is the woman, is called the great city (Rev 18:2, 9, 16, 18, 19)
Minor premise #1: “The great city” is “where also their Lord was crucified”(Rev 11:8)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #2: Babylon was guilty of “the blood of the prophets” (Rev17:6; 18:24)
Minor premise #2: According to Jesus and Paul, only Jerusalem killed the prophets (Matt 23:34–35; Luke 13:33; 1 Thess 2:15–16)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #3: John’s people are commanded, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues” (Rev 18:4)
Minor premise #3: The only city Jesus ever commanded his followers to flee from is Jerusalem—when they saw two specific signs (Matt 24:15–16; Luke 21:20–21). Eusebius recorded that this departure happened and no Christians were trapped and destroyed in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem between 66-70 AD
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #4: This Babylon would be destroyed (Rev 18:2, 8, 10, 11, 17, 19–23)
Minor premise #4: The only city Jesus said would be destroyed was Jerusalem—it would be “left to you desolate” (Matt 23:38) with “not one stone . . . left on another” (Matt 24:2)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Can you add to this OP/thread, whether you agree or not...the floor is yours...

Blessings...APAK
 

Truth7t7

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Babylon – The Great City – Jerusalem- then and today​


Major premise #1: Three times this Babylon, is the woman, is called the great city (Rev 18:2, 9, 16, 18, 19)
Minor premise #1: “The great city” is “where also their Lord was crucified”(Rev 11:8)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #2: Babylon was guilty of “the blood of the prophets” (Rev17:6; 18:24)
Minor premise #2: According to Jesus and Paul, only Jerusalem killed the prophets (Matt 23:34–35; Luke 13:33; 1 Thess 2:15–16)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #3: John’s people are commanded, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues” (Rev 18:4)
Minor premise #3: The only city Jesus ever commanded his followers to flee from is Jerusalem—when they saw two specific signs (Matt 24:15–16; Luke 21:20–21). Eusebius recorded that this departure happened and no Christians were trapped and destroyed in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem between 66-70 AD
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #4: This Babylon would be destroyed (Rev 18:2, 8, 10, 11, 17, 19–23)
Minor premise #4: The only city Jesus said would be destroyed was Jerusalem—it would be “left to you desolate” (Matt 23:38) with “not one stone . . . left on another” (Matt 24:2)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Can you add to this OP/thread, whether you agree or not...the floor is yours...

Blessings...APAK
(Jerusalem) Is The Whore, Mystery Babylon The Great.

The Levitical High Priest Dressing represents "The Woman" in Jerusalem, that is dressed in purple, scarlet, gold, and precious stones as seen below

(Revelation) 17:4KJV

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Yes "The Woman", The Levitical High Priest, Dressed In Purple, Scarlet, Gold, And Precious Stones

(Exodus) 28:15-20KJV
15 And thou shalt make the breastplate of judgment with cunning work; after the work of the ephod thou shalt make it; of gold, of blue, and of purple, and of scarlet, and of fine twined linen, shalt thou make it.
16 Foursquare it shall be being doubled; a span shall be the length thereof, and a span shall be the breadth thereof.
17 And thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a sardius, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row.
18 And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond.
19 And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst.
20 And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a jasper: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings.

(Jerusalem) is the seven Mount city, where the woman sits, not Rome as many falsely claim.

(Revelation) 17:9KJV

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

List of cities claimed to be built on seven hills - Wikipedia
Jerusalem, Israel: Jerusalem's seven hills are Mount Scopus, Mount Olivet and the Mount of Corruption (all three are peaks in a mountain ridge that lies east of the Old City), Mount Ophel, the original Mount Zion, the New Mount Zion and the hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built.

The Roman Empire didnt exist to be guilty of the Prophets blood seen below, Jerusalem did.

(Revelation) 18:24KJV

24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

(Matthew) 23:29-37KJV
29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

Jerusalem (The Woman) that (Great City) as seen below, Jerusalem where Jesus Christ was crucified

(Revelation) 17:18AKJV

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

(Revelation) 11:8AKJV
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jews/Hebrews cast dust upon their heads, weeping for the (Great City) Jerusalem

(Revelation) 18:19 AKJV

19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.
 
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APAK

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And then why are so many folks so insistent it must Rome and not Jerusalem...because it has to be Rome to fit into their lopsided theories. They need to reset and begin again...

They must know that scripture and the historical record must jive together...
 

Marty fox

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Babylon – The Great City – Jerusalem- then and today​


Major premise #1: Three times this Babylon, is the woman, is called the great city (Rev 18:2, 9, 16, 18, 19)
Minor premise #1: “The great city” is “where also their Lord was crucified”(Rev 11:8)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #2: Babylon was guilty of “the blood of the prophets” (Rev17:6; 18:24)
Minor premise #2: According to Jesus and Paul, only Jerusalem killed the prophets (Matt 23:34–35; Luke 13:33; 1 Thess 2:15–16)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #3: John’s people are commanded, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues” (Rev 18:4)
Minor premise #3: The only city Jesus ever commanded his followers to flee from is Jerusalem—when they saw two specific signs (Matt 24:15–16; Luke 21:20–21). Eusebius recorded that this departure happened and no Christians were trapped and destroyed in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem between 66-70 AD
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #4: This Babylon would be destroyed (Rev 18:2, 8, 10, 11, 17, 19–23)
Minor premise #4: The only city Jesus said would be destroyed was Jerusalem—it would be “left to you desolate” (Matt 23:38) with “not one stone . . . left on another” (Matt 24:2)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Can you add to this OP/thread, whether you agree or not...the floor is yours...

Blessings...APAK
I completely agree with all that you say here except that Jerusalem is Babylon the great today. Why today?

Revelation 18
21 Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:

“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
 
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APAK

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I completely agree with all that you say here except that Jerusalem is Babylon the great today. Why today?

Revelation 18
21 Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:

“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
Good question Marty...As a neo-preterist, I also see activities, methods and principles of God through Christ, of a similar kind today, that were initially accomplished in the 1st Century ( with physical and spiritual Jerusalem) as shall be happening on a global scale when the last rise of the evil in Babylon is finally extinguished. In other words I see a neo-Babylonian empire coming to an end soon.. many times God speaks to a double event in time, its initial event and effect, and its last event and effect of the same kind...another subject
 

tailgator

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The Medes(Iranians)will be in Babylon on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women -Isaiah 13:9-17

All the nations will be in Jerusalem on the day of the Lord ransacking the houses and raping the women.Zecharian 14:1-2
 

Marty fox

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Good question Marty...As a neo-preterist, I also see activities, methods and principles of God through Christ, of a similar kind today, that were initially accomplished in the 1st Century ( with physical and spiritual Jerusalem) as shall be happening on a global scale when the last rise of the evil in Babylon is finally extinguished. In other words I see a neo-Babylonian empire coming to an end soon.. many times God speaks to a double event in time, its initial event and effect, and its last event and effect of the same kind...another subject

Okay thanks but remember when Jesus said "37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate." He wasn't talking about the literal city or Jews in general He was talking about apostate Israel in the first centuary
 
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tailgator

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Okay thanks but remember when Jesus said "37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate." He wasn't talking about the literal city or Jews in general He was talking about apostate Israel in the first centuary
Apostate Israel is still apostate Israel.
It's still the same generation/nation
In other words,the beast which recieved a deadly wound has been healed.


Word: genea

Pronounce: ghen-eh-ah'

Strongs Number: G1074

Orig: from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time. G1085

Use: TDNT-1:662,114 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H410 H1755 H2233 H2567 H3117 H3211 H4940 H5971 H7256 H8029

  1. 1) fathered, birth, nativity2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy2b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years
 

APAK

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Okay thanks but remember when Jesus said "37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate." He wasn't talking about the literal city or Jews in general He was talking about apostate Israel in the first centuary
A few reasons: yes, it was about apostate national Israel as a people, in the 1st century, and also its image of apostacy, as the literal city of Jerusalem, and 2. national ethnic Israel slated to be destroyed to complete the end of that age, the transition to Christianity, and then as the final seal of divorce by God of these apostate people by literally destroying the main city and its Temple. National Israel was to be no more....until this same evil spirit of the Pharisees arose again into another group of peoples.

And since that time and especially by 1000 AD and even today there is this same evil and apostacy by another converted group pseudo-Israelites......Babylon III is still on the rise today....and ready to fall.....
 

Marty fox

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A few reasons: yes, it was about apostate national Israel as a people, in the 1st century, and also its image of apostacy, as the literal city of Jerusalem, and 2. national ethnic Israel slated to be destroyed to complete the end of that age, the transition to Christianity, and then as the final seal of divorce by God of these apostate people by literally destroying the main city and its Temple. National Israel was to be no more....until this same evil spirit of the Pharisees arose again into another group of peoples.

And since that time and especially by 1000 AD and even today there is this same evil and apostacy by another converted group pseudo-Israelites......Babylon III is still on the rise today....and ready to fall.....
Sure but Jesus did say that babylon the great was to be no more plus the fact that they were the ones who killed their God and Messiah
 

APAK

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Sure but Jesus did say that babylon the great was to be no more plus the fact that they were the ones who killed their God and Messiah
Yes, Babylon the great indeed, is no more as Christ said. The great city is most certainty dead...the literal city is dead, for good....even today..

...I'm not speaking of a literal city since that time, eventhough a stronghold is evident today in this same modern literal city....its evil spirit never went away....it did spread literally, not just on the waters of the known world in all the known world and nations via Roman, as the Beast, in the 1st century, it went global and has not ceased...this is part of the neo-preterist inclination within me as I read and I'm inspired by scripture. This Anti-Christ spirit, at least of this type of evil spirit, is prevalent today....
 

grafted branch

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Apostate Israel is still apostate Israel.
It's still the same generation/nation
In other words,the beast which recieved a deadly wound has been healed.


Word: genea

Pronounce: ghen-eh-ah'

Strongs Number: G1074

Orig: from (a presumed derivative of) 1085; a generation; by implication, an age (the period or the persons):--age, generation, nation, time. G1085

Use: TDNT-1:662,114 Noun Feminine

Heb Strong: H410 H1755 H2233 H2567 H3117 H3211 H4940 H5971 H7256 H8029

  1. 1) fathered, birth, nativity2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy2b) metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character2b1) esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied by each successive generation), a space of 30-33 years
Matthew 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Your problem is that all those things have already been fulfilled which means that generation did pass after that fulfillment.
 
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ewq1938

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Babylon – The Great City – Jerusalem- then and today​


Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Babylon is found no more at all yet Jerusalem still stands and is occupied at the end of the thousand years when Satan leads an army to surround it.

Jerusalem cannot be Babylon.
 

tailgator

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Matthew 24:34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Your problem is that all those things have already been fulfilled which means that generation did pass after that fulfillment.
Your problem is don't know the meaning of the word generation.

You claim all those things have passed.
Well you give us the date Jesus came seeing that is what he is talking about.
Jesus gave them signs that would take place at his coming as they asked.Mow you tell us the date he came then smarty pants





Mathew 24

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
 

APAK

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Your problem is don't know the meaning of the word generation.

You claim all those things have passed.
Well you give us the date Jesus came seeing that is what he is talking about.
Jesus gave them signs that would take place at his coming as they asked.Mow you tell us the date he came then smarty pants





Mathew 24

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be
These activities already are in the past, as Rev was essentially written by (a) John for the generation of Christ....I come quickly, the time is at hand..etc..

As the gospels were essentially written to national Israel and not the many nations. Then we have Paul to fill in the gaps for the next generations to come.

We do not have a Paul to let us know of the things beyond the 1st century AD as with the gospels.

Regardless, I see principles and activities that are similar since that time and today, that are more global in nature, where we can still fill in the gaps absent of another John or a Paul to guide us through it

I believe many today of the extreme futuristic view of things, try yo squeeze in things of Rev for today and tomorrow, verse for verse and it does not fit.
 
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APAK

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Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
Rev 18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

Babylon is found no more at all yet Jerusalem still stands and is occupied at the end of the thousand years when Satan leads an army to surround it.

Jerusalem cannot be Babylon.
Which 'Jerusalem' still stands I wonder?

The modern city rebuilt by more Muslims that any other people with the dome of the Rock, is even 'more' evil that before, as in Christ's time. It flaunts its wickedness as a normal way of living today. When I say it was destroyed in 70 AD recognize what I really mean. It was destroyed, especially spiritually, never to return. Today, this fabrication of a physical 'new' Jerusalem is void of God's spiritual presence. He ignores it completely...and it will be all gone with the earth in the end when the new heavens and earth arrives in full.
 
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quietthinker

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Babylon – The Great City – Jerusalem- then and today​


Major premise #1: Three times this Babylon, is the woman, is called the great city (Rev 18:2, 9, 16, 18, 19)
Minor premise #1: “The great city” is “where also their Lord was crucified”(Rev 11:8)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #2: Babylon was guilty of “the blood of the prophets” (Rev17:6; 18:24)
Minor premise #2: According to Jesus and Paul, only Jerusalem killed the prophets (Matt 23:34–35; Luke 13:33; 1 Thess 2:15–16)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #3: John’s people are commanded, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues” (Rev 18:4)
Minor premise #3: The only city Jesus ever commanded his followers to flee from is Jerusalem—when they saw two specific signs (Matt 24:15–16; Luke 21:20–21). Eusebius recorded that this departure happened and no Christians were trapped and destroyed in the siege and destruction of Jerusalem between 66-70 AD
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Major premise #4: This Babylon would be destroyed (Rev 18:2, 8, 10, 11, 17, 19–23)
Minor premise #4: The only city Jesus said would be destroyed was Jerusalem—it would be “left to you desolate” (Matt 23:38) with “not one stone . . . left on another” (Matt 24:2)
Conclusion: Jerusalem then and even today is Revelation’s Babylon

Can you add to this OP/thread, whether you agree or not...the floor is yours...

Blessings...APAK
I think Babylon is that seductive element (wine ie, teachings) which peddles the image of righteousness yet is anything but.
We can apply it to secular systems as well as religious. We can apply it to oppressive Cities or Countries in many parts of the World.
Revelation 11:8 uses the metaphor of Sodom and Egypt.
It is not just 'Babylon', it is 'Babylon the Great' which in my view expands the narrow singular view.
 
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Jerry Huerta

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Revelation 18
3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality." NASB

It was the Romans that made the merchants rich during John's time, not the Jews. The Jews couldn't even sit down and eat with the Gentiles, so how could they have committed fornication with the kings of the earth? And the Romans were pagans and couldn't fall from moral rectitude, that's covenantal issue., which is only applicable to the covenantal people of God. The first century Jews don't fit the prophecy in any substantive study.
 

APAK

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I think Babylon is that seductive element (wine ie, teachings) which peddles the image of righteousness yet is anything but.
We can apply it to secular systems as well as religious. We can apply it to oppressive Cities or Countries in many parts of the World.
Revelation 11:8 uses the metaphor of Sodom and Egypt.
It is not just 'Babylon', it is 'Babylon the Great' which in my view expands the narrow singular view.
Yes with the addition of Sodom as its wickedness and Egypt as its oppression.

If folks opened up their Bibles and really believed in the word of God rather than their own imaginations they might understand that when God said he did away with apostate and evil Jerusalem he meant it and did it.

I read also that Christ did 'return' for his remnant back then in the 1st Century, and he will 'end it all' on a wider scale in the future.

I'm a partial -neo- preterist and a so-called A-millennialist that believes the symbolic 1000 years is ticking now...and Christ rules now as King in heaven and on the earth in the hearts of genuine believers.

Today's Jerusalem is a scam, a ruse and a deception for the gullible....I'm awaiting the full-blown New Jerusalem that is already resident in my heart.
 

APAK

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Revelation 18
3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality." NASB

It was the Romans that made the merchants rich during John's time, not the Jews. The Jews couldn't even sit down and eat with the Gentiles, so how could they have committed fornication with the kings of the earth? And the Romans were pagans and couldn't fall from moral rectitude, that's covenantal issue., which is only applicable to the covenantal people of God. The first century Jews don't fit the prophecy in any substantive study.
This subject will take some time to discuss....for starters, the context includes the times well before the Romans first appeared on the scene and for me includes the times past the 1st century and even today and into tomorrow.

And welcome to the CB site JH