Did ANYONE In Scripture (Including Jesus), Claim Jesus IS God?

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Magdala

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I Am
There has been quite a bit of discussion on John 8:58. What happened to this verse as to confuse so many? Let's start in Exodus.

KJV Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.
Now we shall read the same verse from the Greek Septuagint

Septuagint
Exo 3:14 και ειπεν ο θεος προς μωυσην [εγω ειμι ο ων] και ειπεν ουτως ερεις τοις υιοις ισραηλ [ο ων] απεσταλκεν με προς υμας

Note the two separate Greek words used for 'am'

Concordant Literal Version
Exo 3:14 Then Elohim spoke to Moses: I shall come to be just as I am coming to be. And He said: Thus shall you say to the sons of Israel, I-Shall-Come-to-Be has sent me to you.
Now when translated literally you get a whole different look. What happened to the other I am's?

The Hebrew Bible uses the word (hâyâh H1961) in the place of "Am" which is a verb meaning to exist, to be.
Check the Strongs' number.

Clearly Jesus did not say (εγω ειμι ο ων) nor did he state (ο ων), in John 8:58. Jesus spoke the words (εγω ειμι) just like other people in the bible who are not God. So just what was Jesus saying?

But what about the great "I Am him" statement of Jesus? Especially that classic one in John 8:58 where Jesus says, "Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born I am"?

Surely here Jesus makes the same claim for himself that Jehovah God made back in Exodus 3 where the LORD says to Moses at the burning Bush "I Am Who I Am." Surely Jesus is claiming to be the I AM of the Old Testament as Trinitarian belief asserts?

Now here is something very obvious that they never told me in church. This expression from Jesus' lips "I am" (Greek ego eimi) occurs throughout the Gospel of John and in no other text in John can it mean I AM, the God of the Old Testament.

Go back to John 4:25-26 for instance. The woman at the well said to Jesus, "I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ); when that one comes, he will declare all things to us." And Jesus said to her, "I who speak with you am he." You will notice that in most Bibles that word he is in italics. This means that the translators have correctly supplied a word in English that is not in the Greek but that nevertheless makes the intended sense quite clear. Here Jesus says to the woman - in the context of her question about the Messiah - that he is the Messiah, the Christ. "I who speak to you am he." In the Greek it reads ego eimi. Jesus simply says I am he, the Messiah. Definitely not “I am is the one speaking to you!”

In John 9 Jesus heals the blind man. Is this really the beggar who used to sit groping in the dark? Some people said, "Yes, it's him all right." Other said, "No, he just looks like him." But the beggar says, " ego eimi!" And the translators have no problem writing, "I am the one." So why aren't the translators consistent? Why not capitalize what this man says as I AM? Because it is clear that he is not claiming to be the God of the Old Testament. Saying "I am" (ego eimi) does not make somebody God in the Bible!

What Jesus is saying is simply “Before Abraham was born, I am he,” that is, "I am the Messiah."

Notice the context in John 8:56 where Jesus says, "Abraham rejoiced to see my day." By faith Abraham looked forward and saw the coming Messiah before he came in history. He believed the promise that God would send the Promised One. On the other hand these Jews did not believe that Jesus was their Messiah. They were claiming to be Abraham's descendents. Jesus said that this was impossible for they did not recognize him as their Messiah. But Jesus asserts that even before Abraham was born, he is the One who was always in God's plan. This Abraham believe and saw. The Messiah preexisted in God's plan and therefore in Abraham's believing mind, because he trusted the promise of God. Jesus positively did not say, before Abraham was, I was." Also, Jesus did not say, “Before Abraham was, I AM WHAT I AM."

The conclusion is inevitable. Jesus’ claim "Before Abraham was born, I am he" is the straightforward claim that he is the long promised one, the Messiah, the One in question. Jesus is the Savior in God's promise even before Abraham was born.

In Jn. 8:57, the Pharisees didn't ask Jesus if He was the Messiah, but rather if He had seen Abraham, and thus "Before Abraham was born, I am the Messiah" doesn't make sense as an answer.

Forms of the word
Dictionary:
ἐγώ
Greek transliteration: egō
Simplified transliteration: ego

Numbers
Strong's number:
1473
GK Number: 1609

Statistics
Frequency in the New Testament:
2666
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: a-5a
Gloss: I, me, my; we, us, our; often added for emphasis: myself, ourselves
Definition: I, gen., ἐμοῦ (μου), dat., ἐμοι (μοι), acc., ἐμέ (με)

Forms of the word
Dictionary: εἰμί
Greek transliteration: eimi
Simplified transliteration: eimi
Principal Parts: (ἤμην), ἔσομαι, -, -, -, -

Numbers
Strong's number:
1488
GK Number: 1639

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament:
2462
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: v-6b
Gloss: to be, exist, be present
Definition: to be, to exist, Jn. 1:1; 17:5; Mt. 6:30; Lk. 4:25, freq.; ἐστι(ν), it is possible, proper, Heb. 9:5; a simple linking verb (copula) to the subject and predicate, and therefore in itself affecting the force of the sentence only by its tense, mood, etc., Jn. 1:1; 15:1, freq.; it also forms a frequent circumlocution with the participles of the present and perfect of other verbs, Mt. 19:22; Mk. 2:6

Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ (I) εἰμι (exist) ὃ "Qu: καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν 15 ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. Kal εἶπεν ὃ Θεὸς πάλιν πρὸς Μωυσῆν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ᾿Ισραὴλ, Κύριος ὃ Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν, Θεὸς ᾿Αβραὰμ, καὶ Θεὸς ᾿Ισαὰις, καὶ Θεὸς Ἰακὼβ, ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: τοῦτό μου ἐστὶν ὄνομα αἰώ" (Septuagint, Ex. 3:14-15)

The Pharisees asked, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), and Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (Jn. 8:58). Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15). In response, the Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God. (Jn. 8:59)

The Jewish leaders were very well aware of what Jesus was saying about himself! Jesus Was not claiming to be God but the Son of God as Shown in John 19:6. They give the very reason they wanted Him dead!

John 19:6
When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him. 7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jesus referring to Himself as "the Son of God" is another way of saying that He's God. There's the idiom "more than one way to say something" which means "there are multiple ways to express the same idea or concept, using different words or phrasing, depending on the context or desired emphasis; essentially, it indicates that there is no single "correct" way to say something."
 
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Traveler

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Absolutely God was in Christ!!!

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us
OK lets get all technical here, God has a body and sits on a throne, so where did God get his body from if he did not create it for himself and the same goes for his throne. If you work it all back then God must have started off as the Holy Spirit, So God original is the Hoy Spirit.

 
J

Johann

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In Jn. 8:57, the Pharisees didn't ask Jesus if He was the Messiah, but rather if He had seen Abraham, and thus "Before Abraham was born, I am the Messiah" doesn't make sense as an answer.





Καὶ εἶπεν ὁ Θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν, λέγων, ἐγώ (I) εἰμι (exist) ὃ "Qu: καὶ εἶπεν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς Ἰσραὴλ, ὁ Ὧν 15 ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς. Kal εἶπεν ὃ Θεὸς πάλιν πρὸς Μωυσῆν, οὕτως ἐρεῖς τοῖς υἱοῖς ᾿Ισραὴλ, Κύριος ὃ Θεὸς τῶν πατέρων ἡμῶν, Θεὸς ᾿Αβραὰμ, καὶ Θεὸς ᾿Ισαὰις, καὶ Θεὸς Ἰακὼβ, ἀπέσταλκέ με πρὸς ὑμᾶς: τοῦτό μου ἐστὶν ὄνομα αἰώ" (Septuagint, Ex. 3:14-15)

The Pharisees asked, "You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?" (Jn. 8:57), and Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM" (Jn. 8:58). Jesus explicitly not only said that He existed before Abraham was born, but that He's always existed, by referring to Himself as "I AM", the name of God: "And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15). In response, the Pharisees attempted to stone Jesus to death for blasphemy, because they understood that He had said He's God. (Jn. 8:59)



Jesus referring to Himself as "the Son of God" is another way of saying that He's God. There's the idiom "more than one way to say something" which means "there are multiple ways to express the same idea or concept, using different words or phrasing, depending on the context or desired emphasis; essentially, it indicates that there is no single "correct" way to say something."
Absolutely correct here.

J.
 

Wrangler

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Does the belief in the Trinity automatically place someone in the Sinner/Unenlightened camp? Conversely, if Unitarianism is found to be false, does that place someone in the same camp?
One of my earliest objections to trinitarianism was the proclamation that not believing it means you can’t be saved and are damned to hell.

The golden question sets this IDOLATRY straight; what verse says that?

Given that is false, why do trinitarians make it seem like their manmade doctrine is the central principle of Scripture?
 
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Wrangler

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But I am not looking just at a single sentence. I am looking at three. Two of which confirm that the first is not a necessary, but only a sufficient, condition to salvation -- precisely as its text suggests..
You lost me. What 3 sentences are you looking at and what do each confirm? Also, I still don’t understand the ‘not necessary but only sufficient’ dichotomy. Please explain the 4 possible condition scenarios:
  1. Necessary and sufficient
  2. Not necessary and not sufficient
  3. Not necessary but sufficient
  4. Necessary but not sufficient
I’m looking at this as a simple contract, like mow the grass weekly for $20 each mowing event is the term and conditions of the contract. Then apply it to the Scripture under discussion. Then, maybe it will make sense. Or the contrivance will be revealed. Thanks!
 

David in NJ

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OK lets get all technical here, God has a body and sits on a throne, so where did God get his body from if he did not create it for himself and the same goes for his throne. If you work it all back then God must have started off as the Holy Spirit, So God original is the Hoy Spirit.

You are correct about the Holy Spirit.

Keep the Truth in your mind & heart and your understanding will continue to grow and see.

Truth #1 - Genesis - The word for 'God' is 'Elohim' which is Plural
Truth #2 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:1-3
Truth #3 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:26
Truth #4 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:27
Truth #5 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three is identified to us from the Scriptures = Gen chapters 12-35
Truth #6 - OT Prophets - Elohim/Plural will come to earth and dwell as Elohim in a man
Truth #7 - GOSPEL - Elohim comes to earth = "Immanuel, God with us"
Truth #8 - GOSPEL - Elohim stands at the door and knocks and whoever opens receives Elohim
 

amigo de christo

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You are correct about the Holy Spirit.

Keep the Truth in your mind & heart and your understanding will continue to grow and see.

Truth #1 - Genesis - The word for 'God' is 'Elohim' which is Plural
Truth #2 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:1-3
Truth #3 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:26
Truth #4 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:27
Truth #5 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three is identified to us from the Scriptures = Gen chapters 12-35
Truth #6 - OT Prophets - Elohim/Plural will come to earth and dwell as Elohim in a man
Truth #7 - GOSPEL - Elohim comes to earth = "Immanuel, God with us"
Truth #8 - GOSPEL - Elohim stands at the door and knocks and whoever opens receives Elohim
The hour grows late and the cry has been made and has been given and the saints do hear its charge ,
Arise and contend for the true faith and embrace the truth of scripture . Embracing and loving all things written
for our own learning . The hour grows later and persecutions against the saints will increase .
Having all hope above on HIM all trust in the LORD who shall guide our steps into the final battle
of a war that has long raged against the saints .
A voice of darkness has taken hold upon many and by a false wordly version of love has decieved the hearts of many
right into a lie . Time to contend for the true faith and to speak TRUTH and live by THE TRUTH , BY the SPIRIT .
This war has led to persecutions since even the beginning of the gospel ./
But in this last hour the decieved will merge as one mind following one love and the god of this world who has blinded
the eyes of those who BELIEVE NOT and has led them to come against the HOLY GOD , CHRIST and the saints
who have not and will not conform to the lie , the very lie which the decieved now call love and beleive is love and even of GOD .
But it is not of GOD but of he who has desired to be AS GOD . .
 
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David in NJ

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The hour grows late and the cry has been made and has been given and the saints do hear its charge ,
Arise and contend for the true faith and embrace the truth of scripture . Embracing and loving all things written
for our own learning . The hour grows later and persecutions against the saints will increase .
Having all hope above on HIM all trust in the LORD who shall guide our steps into the final battle
of a war that has long raged against the saints .
A voice of darkness has taken hold upon many and by a false wordly version of love has decieved the hearts of many
right into a lie . Time to contend for the true faith and to speak TRUTH and live by THE TRUTH , BY the SPIRIT .
This war has led to persecutions since even the beginning of the gospel ./
But in this last hour the decieved will merge as one mind following one love and the god of this world who has blinded
the eyes of those who BELIEVE NOT and has led them to come against the HOLY GOD , CHRIST and the saints
who have not and will not conform to the lie , the very lie which the decieved now call love and beleive is love and even of GOD .
But it is not of GOD but of he who has desired to be AS GOD . .
Arise and contend for the true faith and embrace the truth of scripture .
Amen - there is only One Faith that SAVES = the WORD that was God in the Beginning

Embracing and loving all things written
JESUS Says: "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God"

A voice of darkness has taken hold upon many and by a false worldly version of love has deceived the hearts of many
JESUS Says: "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."

But in this last hour the decieved will merge as one mind following one love and the god of this world
The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth,

CHRIST and the saints who have not and will not conform to the lie ,
But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
 

Bee5

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1st age body.. = angel body material supernatural dna
2nd age body.. = flesh material body dna that is the "same image " or "looks the same" as our 1st age angel body

"We were all with God when He created us long ago( in the 1st age of time)..but in that "angel supernatural material body" there in the 1st age.. and that's why you "look just like" in your "flesh body" like you did there in your supernatural angel body in the first age of time.

Read Matthew 19:4 and on...which says "in the beginning"(1st age) God created them male and female... When the flesh body perishes, we have our angel body still from the 1st age.

Genesis 1:26) And God said, Let us make man(flesh man) (give us another body... but a flesh body )in our image, after our likeness: ( our flesh body looks like(same image or picture) as our angel body or 1st age body which is of supernatural material dna or angel body..So each flesh body is either male or female just like in that 1st age. If you are a female now in a flesh body for this 2nd age, you look like your 1st age body(angel body)... female

"Us and our" included God Himself and His people He created(angels) He called us "angels" in that 1st age.. His flesh body(Jesus)looks like Him.. God has a body.
"Elohim" is God and the angels/(people in supernatural angel body material . He called us "angels" in that 1st age when He created us all)

27) So God created man( gave us a flesh body also) in his own image, in the image of God created "he him"( the "HE HIM" Is God Himself as Jesus, the flesh body of God for this 2nd age.. So God included Himself and He also will have a flesh body); male and female created he "them"(us, His people).

An "angel" is just a person in their supernatural body... males and females.

Matthew 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them "at the beginning" made them "male and female",(the beginning is the 1st age)

Lucifer is a male and still has his 1st age body as do the "fallen" angels who refused a flesh body for this 2nd age of time... NOONE was destroyed. God relocated everyone in the "katabole" destruction because of rebellion, but did not destroy anyone YET. Genesis 1:2.. and the earth BECAME VOID... the "katabole" ending of that 1st age time period.

Our 2 bodies are in different dimensions.. one in Heaven in a supernatural/angel body..one on earth(flesh body)

Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained[a] thee a prophet unto the nations.

God "KNEW" Jeremiah from the 1st age just like He knows all of us and what we did there .
God "hated Esau" while he was in the womb ...why?.. because of what Esau did in the first age.

God knows each of us and what we chose in that 1st age.
 

amigo de christo

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Amen - there is only One Faith that SAVES = the WORD that was God in the Beginning


JESUS Says: "man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God"


JESUS Says: "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many."


The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth,


But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle.
Thats right my friend . Forward march , let all be to the GLORY OF GOD no matter the cost to us my friend .
Every WORD of the LORD is pure and lovely and is TRUTH .
 

amigo de christo

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You are correct about the Holy Spirit.

Keep the Truth in your mind & heart and your understanding will continue to grow and see.

Truth #1 - Genesis - The word for 'God' is 'Elohim' which is Plural
Truth #2 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:1-3
Truth #3 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:26
Truth #4 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three as dictated to us from the Scriptures = Gen 1:27
Truth #5 - Genesis - Elohim/Plural is Three is identified to us from the Scriptures = Gen chapters 12-35
Truth #6 - OT Prophets - Elohim/Plural will come to earth and dwell as Elohim in a man
Truth #7 - GOSPEL - Elohim comes to earth = "Immanuel, God with us"
Truth #8 - GOSPEL - Elohim stands at the door and knocks and whoever opens receives Elohim
marvel NOT that AI supports interfaith views and sees JESUS as but a messenger , prophet or etc ,
I would Not heed that wacked on image for what it says . HEED the bible my friend . The attack upon I AM alpha and omega
is an attack upon the I AM ALPHA and OMEGA . I dont heed a word from this new age AI stuff . Listen to that video
and you even hear interfaith used in it . Everyone feels so darn entilted to her or his opinion .
As for me , I SEEN what is written and not a lick of it contradicts the other .
We stick to the bible my friend , this generation will do as it does , the sheep will do as THE ALMIGHTY KING and SAVOIR
sayeth to do . OH its gonna hit a peak soon my friend .
 
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David in NJ

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marvel NOT that AI supports interfaith views and sees JESUS as but a messenger , prophet or etc ,
I would heed that wacked on image for what it says . HEED the bible my friend . The attack upon I AM alpha and omega
is an attack upon the I AM ALPHA and OMEGA . I dont heed a word from this new age AI stuff . Listen to that video
and you even hear interfaith used in it . Everyone feels so darn entilted to her or his opinion .
As for me , I SEEN what is written and not a lick of it contradicts the other .
We stick to the bible my friend , this generation will do as it does , the sheep will do as THE ALMIGHTY KING and SAVOIR
sayeth to do . OH its gonna hit a peak soon my friend .
Everyone feels so darn entilted to her or his opinion .
And that right there is the PROBLEM and satan knows it, loves it and is the 'inter-faith' messiah

Force every'ones collective body of opinions upon the Word that was God in the Beginning = a return to Genesis ch3
 

amigo de christo

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And that right there is the PROBLEM and satan knows it, loves it and is the 'inter-faith' messiah

Force every'ones collective body of opinions upon the Word that was God in the Beginning = a return to Genesis ch3
soon the motto will be if you no comply you no buy . Laws and times are changing my friend . laws and times are changing .
Rebellion has been left uncorrected for so so long
that now upmost rebellion against GOD has surged within many houses under guise it is the Love of GOD .
Leaven leavens as error begets error and the smooth talkers just preach what is smooth unto the masses .
Convincing all that anyone who dares to try and correct is now A JUDGE , Hater , pharisee who knows not GOD or love .
Soon enough where this has been leading will prove it was hate and murder all along .
As teeth of vengeance and fury rages against the saints who conformed NOT to the image
of the all inclusive god , which the lost believed was GOD and LOVE .
Even now we see its intolerance growing , its hatred increasing against those who wont conform but rather warn against it .
 

doctrox

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OK lets get all technical here, God has a body and sits on a throne, so where did God get his body from if he did not create it for himself and the same goes for his throne. If you work it all back then God must have started off as the Holy Spirit, So God original is the Hoy Spirit.
...the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. (John 4:23-24)
 

Taken

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One of my earliest objections to trinitarianism was the proclamation that not believing it means you can’t be saved and are damned to hell.

Then what you understood was a False Teaching.

First…All Flesh (bodies) Life (Blood) must, shall DIE…God requires that.
Gen 9:5

Men CAN willingly Give their Flesh Body unto Death…TO God…By Vow…By Act.

Men WHO believe, IN God, IN Jesus, In Jesus IS the Christ…

* Men WHO do so BY Vow…Receive their SOUL Salvation and SPIRIT Quickening Right THEN.
(They shall be Raised UP in their new bodies, By the Command of CHRIST). (Ie called the Rapture and applies to those who are called: IN CHIIST)

1 Thes.4:
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

* Men WHO during the Trib, WHO declare their “Belief In God, IN Jesus, In Jesus IS the Christ
(They will physically , bodily Die, and “collectively” “together” Their saved souls AND quickened spirits Shall rise up to Heaven….and WAIT for GOD to raise their new Body’s”.
* The Raising UP of New Body’s….BY God…
Is After the Trib.

They …WHO:
Believe IN God…
Believe IN Jesus..
But….DID NOT BELIEVE…JESUS IS the CHRIST…BUT “DID” believe Jesus died and rose up living.
They are raised up “collectively” “together”called (ie The First Resurrection) And applies to those called; IN JESUS.(NOT “IN” Christ…)God will Raise.

1 Thes. 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

So no , salvation is NOT dependent on believing IN the Trinity…

And YES…Receipt of Salvation (BEFORE physical Death) DOES Required Belief…
In the Whole of God being…
His Word, His Spirit, His Power
As Called IN Scripture:
Lord God Almighty.

It’s called…A Confession…via a mans Belief TRUTH in his SPIRIT in his Heart…not his (carnal logical mind).

It’s called “A living sacrifice”.
It is called a mans “reasonable service”..
Acceptable to God.
That IS the Requirement to receive Soul Salvation and Spirit Quickening BEFORE a mans Physical Death …
And the Same Whom The Lord Shall rise Up changed…to meet and See the Lord in the Clouds / Air…
AS HE IS…Spirit.

It is accomplished…BY the mans Heartful Confession To the Lord, of what he Believes…and his willingness to Agree by Vow, to be bodily Crucified with Jesus’ body.

Rom 12:
[1] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

If you believe IN Jesus, but that He is Not the Christ…God shall save your soul, quicken your spirit and raise you up changed at the First Resurrection.

If you have chosen Gods Offering to BE “IN” Christ…your name has been ENTERED ‘into the Lambs Book of Life”…and He shall raise you up…before…
The Wrath of the Lamb
The Wrath of the Devil
The Wrath of God…

Your Choice…The Lord God already Knows…and has PREPARED your place.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Magdala

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In Matthew 26:63-66/Mark 14:61-64, during Jesus' trial before the high priest Caiaphas, the high priest asked Jesus directly: “Are you the Christ, the Son of God?” Jesus responded affirmatively, saying, "You have said so," and also added that they would see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming with the clouds of heaven (referencing Daniel 7:13).

Why did the High Priest not lay your charge of him calling himself God?
Why did Jesus not refer to himself as God?
Why instead does Jesus use his preferred title "Son of Man" (80 times! compared to 5 x Son of God)

Part I

Firstly, Jesus's titles "Son of God" and "Son of Man" are both true, and neither is less true, no matter how many more times one is said than the other.

Secondly, regarding the title "Son of Man", Jesus used it to connect His mission to the Old Testament prophecies, as well as emphasize His humanity and divine authority. Jesus is perfect because He Who speaks to us is the Word of the Father: part of God. His thought that becomes Word. Jesus has Perfection in Himself. And we must believe Jesus to be such if we believe that He is the Word of the Father. And yet, He wanted to be called the Son of man because He lowered Himself taking upon Himself all the miseries of man, to bear them as His first scaffold, and cancel them, after bearing them, without suffering from them Himself. What a burden, but He bore it with joy. It was a joy for Him to bear it, because, since He is the Son of mankind, He made mankind once again the child of God. As it was on the first day.

Thirdly, the High Priest, Caiphas, did ask Jesus to reaffirm that He's God by asking if He's the Son of God, because that is another way of saying so, and He did, just as He always had. That's why, prior to His trial, on multiple occasions, they often attempted to kill Him for blasphemy when He testified to being God in various ways. The following are a few examples:

"[God] [...] alone treadeth upon the waves of the sea" (Job. 9:8)
[...] they saw Jesus walking on the sea (Jn. 6:19, cf. Potmg: V1)

The man went away, and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.
For this cause the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill him, because he did these things on the Sabbath.
But He answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I Myself am working.”
For this cause therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the Sabbath, but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (Jn. 5:1-18, cf. Potmg: V2)

"You are not yet fifty years old! Have you seen Abraham?"
Jesus answered, "[...] before Abraham came into existence, I AM"
[Note: Only God says "I AM" as He is eternal. And God spoke to Moses, saying, l AM THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you. And God said again to Moses, thus shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, the Lord God of our fathers, the God of Abraham, and God of Isaac, and God of Jacob, has sent me to you: this is My name for ever, and my memorial to generations of generations" (English translation from The Tanakh, Ex. 3:14-15)]
Therefore they took up stones to throw at him [...] (Jn. 8:57-59, cf. Potmg: V4)

"I and the Father are one.”
Therefore Jews took up stones again to stone him
.
Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from my Father. For which of those works do you stone me?”
The Jews answered him, “We don’t stone you for a good work, but for blasphemy: because you, being a man, make yourself God.
Jesus answered them, “Isn’t it written in your law, ‘I said, you are gods?’ If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture can’t be broken), why do you say of him whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God?’ If I don’t do the works of my Father, don’t believe me. But if I do them, though you don’t believe me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.
They sought again to seize him [...] (Jn. 10:30:39, cf. Potmg: V4)

So they took away the stone from the place where the dead man was lying.
Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, “Father, I thank you that you listened to me. I know that you always listen to me, but because of the multitude standing around I said this, that they may believe that you sent me.”
When he had said this, he cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus, come out!”
He who was dead came out, bound hand and foot with wrappings, and his face was wrapped around with a cloth
.
But some of them went away to the Pharisees and told them the things which Jesus had done.
The chief priests therefore and the Pharisees gathered a council, and said, “What are we doing? For this man does many signs.
So from that day forward they took counsel that they might put him to death. (Jn. 11: 41-53, cf. Potmg: V5)

“Who are you looking for?” asks Jesus
They answered him, “Jesus of Nazareth.”
When therefore he said to them, “I am He,” they went backward, and fell to the ground. (Jn. 18:4-6, cf. Potmg: V5)

Cont. in post 877
 
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Magdala

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Part II

The Word, that is the Son of Thought, has come as prophesied, to save Israel and the world from sin. Jesus is the Word. Jesus is the foretold Messiah. There is no sacrilege, therefore, when Jesus said that the Father is His Father. The Pharisees, Sadducees, and others were upset because Jesus worked miracles and through them He attracted crowds and convinced them. They accused Him of being a demon, because He worked prodigies. But Beelzebub has been in the world for many centuries, and he truly does not lack devout worshippers... Why, then, does he not do what Jesus did? It's because Jesus knows what he does not know and Jesus can do what he cannot. If Jesus accomplishes deeds of God, it's because He is His Son. One can do by oneself only what one has seen being done by others. Jesus, the Son, can only do what He has seen done by the Father, as He has been one with Him forever, and He is like Him in nature and power. Everything the Father does, Jesus does as well, as He is His Son. Neither Beelzebub nor anybody else can do what Jesus does, because Beelzebub and the others do not know what He knows. The Father loves Jesus, His Son, and He loves Him immensely as Jesus loves Him. He has therefore shown Jesus and still showed Him everything He does, so that He may do what He does, Him on the earth, in that time of Grace, He in Heaven, even before Time existed on the earth. And, He showed Him greater and greater deeds so that He may accomplish them and they may be amazed. His Thought is inexhaustible in depth. Jesus imitates Him as He is exhaustible in accomplishing what the Father thinks and, by thinking, wants. You do not yet know what Love creates inexhaustibly. They are Love. And there is no limit for Them, and there is nothing that cannot be applied to the three grades of man: the inferior, the superior, the spiritual grades. In fact as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, Jesus, the Son, can give life to whosoever He wishes, nay, because of the infinite love the Father has for His Son, Jesus can not only give life to the inferior part but also to the superior one, by freeing the hearts and minds of men from mental errors and evil passions, and He can give life to the spiritual part by giving back to the spirit its freedom from sin, because the Father does not judge anybody, having left all judgement to the Son, as the Son is He Who, through His own sacrifice, acquired Mankind to redeem it: and the Father does that according to justice, because it's just that He, Who has purchased with His own money, should be given what He purchased, so that everybody may honour the Son as they already honour the Father. You must know that if you separate the Father from the Son, or the Son from the Father, and you do not remember the Love, you do not love God as He is to be loved, that is, in truth and wisdom, and you commit a sin of heresy, because you worship One only, whilst They are three in an admirable Trinity. Thus, he who does not honour the Son, does not honour the Father either, because the Father, God, does not want only One of the Three Divine Persons to be worshiped, but He wants Them all, as a Whole, to be worshiped. He who does not honour the Son, does not honour the Father either, Who sent Him out of a perfect thought of love. He therefore denies that God can accomplish just deeds. I solemnly tell you that he who listens to My word and believes in Him Who sent Me, will have eternal life and will not be condemned, but will pass from death to life, because to believe in God and to accept My word means to infuse into oneself the Life that does not die.

The death of which I am speaking is not the death of the flesh, but of the soul. People will come who will listen to His Word with their ears, will accept it in their hearts, and will practice it. Even if their spirits are dead, they will receive life again, because His Word is Life that will be infused into them. And Jesus can give it to whomsoever He wishes, because in Him there is perfect Life. As the Father has in Himself perfect Life, so also the Son had from the Father, in Himself, perfect, complete, eternal, inexhaustible, transfusable Life. And with Life, the Father gave Jesus power to judge, because the Son of the Father is the Son of Man, and He can and must judge man. And do not be amazed at this first resurrection, the spiritual one, which Jesus works by His Word. You will see stronger ones, which will appear stronger to your dull senses, because I solemnly tell you that there is nothing greater than the invisible but real resurrection of a spirit. The hour has already come to pass when the voice of the Son of God penetrated tombs and those who were in them heard it. And those who did good actions came out of them to go to the resurrection of eternal Life, and those who did evil deeds came out to go the resurrection of eternal damnation. Jesus did not say that He would do that by Himself, by His own will, but by the will of the Father joined to His. He speaks and judges according to what He hears and His judgement is correct, because He does not seek His own will, but the will of Him Who sent Him. He is not separated from the Father. He is in Him and He is in Jesus and He knows His Thought and He expresses it in word and action.

What Jesus testifies on His own behalf cannot be accepted by incredulous spirits, which refuse to see in Him anything but a man like ourselves. But there is another one who testified on His behalf, whom they say they venerate as a great prophet. I know that his testimony is true. But although they say that they venerate him, they will not accept his testimony, because it differs from their thought, which is hostile to Jesus. They do not accept the testimony of the just man, of the last Prophet in Israel, because, with regard to what they do not like, they say that he is only a man and can be mistaken. Messengers were sent to interrogate John, hoping he would say of Jesus what they wanted, what they think of Him, what they want to think of Him. But John gave his testimony to the truth and they could not accept it. Because the Prophet says that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God, they were saying in the secret of their hearts, as they were afraid of the crowds, that the Prophet is insane, as Christ is. Jesus, however, did not depend on the testimony of man, not even of the most holy one in Israel. Jesus told us: John was a lamp alight and shining, but only for a short time they wanted to enjoy the light that he gave. When his light was cast on Jesus, to make the Christ known for what He is, they allowed the lamp to be hidden under a bushel, and before that, they had built up a wall between the lamp and themselves, in order not to see the Christ of the Lord in its light. Jesus is grateful to John for his testimony, and the Father is grateful as well. But Jesus has a greater testimony than John's. The testimony of His works. Because the works the Father has given Him to carry out, those works He accomplished and they testify that the Father has sent Him giving Him all power. And thus, the Father Who sent Jesus, bears witness to Him Himself.
 

chandlere880

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Yes, Jesus himself said that when we have seen Him / Jesus, we have seen the Father
*-✦-*
Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?

Jesus claimed to be God but truthfully explained that his flesh nature was not God but that he was simply a manifestation of God,