Once Saved Always Saved

[Ezra]

Well , was paul in error when he told some , I stand in doubt of you . no .
Inspect that fruit . And if sin is spotted we must do all to correct our brethren .
Folks this idea that we are not to inspect fruit is a mockery to Christ . HE said Ye shall KNOW THEM by their fruits .
I am not saying this to be mean or hateful . But too many have learned a new way to evangelize and this new way
is not saving one single soul . We have learned the modern way to judge not , and it is given unto us to beleive
that somehow if we correct or spot sin and name it as sin , we are JUDGERS . THIS IS NOT TRUE .
Paul often listed the sins of the flesh . HE often said if a brother is in a sin , covetous , fornicator , uncleanliness etc
DONT even eat with such a one . correct them , dont just leave them to their own demise .
The church is truly in shambles . But remember this
What did GOD tell some of those churches . HE not only rebuked some for following false doctrine and comitting fornication .
HE rebuked one and said , YE EVEN ALLOW IT . THIS IS not right what many have been taught .
I beg , i plead , i throw my hands up with tears and say , GO BACK to bible reading and stop heeding men with acroynms
and their doctrines . WE GOTTA LEARN JESUS . Please . I love you all . I TRULY DO . but this madness must be stopped .

hmmmm how soon we forget
Galatians 6:1

“Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”

yes we will now them by there Fruits but we are not the fruit inspectors if i was to know you personally and hung around with you a while . i will assure you i can find some of your faults. that are not fruit. we are fishers of men we catch them God cleans them . for the record i have been using Bible we ARE NOT the judge of anyone's salvation , it is not us who determines who goes to hell and who dont. we can only say what the word of God says ,
Romans 2:16

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
2 Timothy 4:1

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;”
your passionate plea is not very passionate


btw the post is about osas do you think those who hold to osas is going to hell?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God is faithful...

And, those who have a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith (mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be "cut off" (Romans 11:20-22).

So, if someone falls away or is cut off, do they continue to have salvation?

I believe that an answer of yes is heresy.

The people who follow away never had faith to begin with. Remember the man who asked Jesus to heal his child? the man said he believed but help him with his unbelief That is shallow faith that Jesus turned into a miracle healing of his daughter, Mark my word, That mans faith was not weak after this/

This is a picture of people who come to Christ, the miracle of new birth, They may come with faith of a mustard seed, But as jesus said, that faith is enough, And when he heals us and gives us eternal life and his son and the blessings we have, including his spirit. Our faith is no longer weak it is strong.

You don't just lose faith

ROM 11 is about gentiles as a group being cut off. Not individuals. And that if we became arrogant Like Israel did, B=God would cut us off from the blessings also. Like he did them.

As far as luke 8 goes, there was only one truly saved group. The ones who produced fruit, The rest never produced fruit because because it was not fed by the spiritual water that produces fruit.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m sorry but you keep on supposing we have no responsibility in violation of Matthew 7:21.

I am sorry

But you keep supposing we can save ourselves by our own power

Once again, Matt 7 is about the people who believe. Not about unbelievers

ALL who have faith in Christ do his will. Its not a prerequisite to be saved, Its a result of being saved because of faith.

If you trust someone, You do what they say. If you do not trust someone, You do not do what they say

Keep trying to earn your salvation by your works. You will be part of the next group who try to scream about all the works you did in Jesus name, and he will plainly say depart for he never knew you

 

[justbyfaith]

ROM 11 is about gentiles as a group being cut off. Not individuals. And that if we became arrogant Like Israel did, B=God would cut us off from the blessings also. Like he did them.

So, are you a Gentile?

What do you think would be the reason for God to cut off every Gentile?

Do you think that it is possible that we, as Gentiles, might be coming to that point, where God might desire to cut us all off?

As far as luke 8 goes, there was only one truly saved group. The ones who produced fruit, The rest never produced fruit because because it was not fed by the spiritual water that produces fruit.

So, if the only ones who are saved are those who produce fruit, you are implying that a man is saved by works. Because fruit and works are nearly synonymous in Titus 3:14.

Personally, I believe that an apple tree is an apple tree whether it bears apples or not. If it does not bear fruit, God will say to the manager, "cut it down...why cumbereth it the ground?" To which the manager shall reply, "let it alone for three years; and let me dung it so that it is nourished; and if it still doesn't produce after that, then thou shalt cut it down."

But the point being that the tree that will produce fruit after three years is saved while it doesn't produce fruit; though it is in danger of condemnation.

The plant in Luke 8:13 is a living plant; it is saved for all practical purposes until it withers away; thus showing that it was planted in shallow ground and therefore had no root.

There are those who are saved from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14) and the kingdom of hell, if only for a season; and they fall away from the faith later.

They do not have everlasting life from the perspective of eternity; for they had a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith; and their faith served to make them holy for a moment of time but when temptation came they fell away from that holiness.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Now, Matthew 7:21 does not teach that we are saved by our works...
As someone said, it is descriptive rather than prescriptive.

The word of God is all prescriptive. And anything that is “descriptive” is prescriptive in application. All the parables of Jesus are “descriptive”, but the prescriptive things in the descriptive are discerned by the spiritual man.

Because all things in the word of God works these things:

Psalm 19:7-8,11
[7] The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. [8] The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. [11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine

Only a liar would contradict scriptures and tell you only SOME scripture is profitable for doctrine because some things in scripture are “prescriptive” only with no doctrinal value.

It’s only those who are trapped in false doctrine that come up with these clever devices to dismiss the scriptures that challenge their traditional belief.

 

[Taken]

Whether the "faith" of those who fall away is truly the same as the faith of those who do not..

Much love!

Same Faith. From the Same Holy Spirit.
FOR a different REASON...
FOR a different PURPOSE...
IN a different AMOUNT...

1) reason - the person is HEARING by his CHOICE to HEAR the Word of God.

(The point is...once something IS Heard, you can't "unhear" it.)

2) purpose - God giving His gift of Faith, IS HOW, a person, is ABLE to "begin" BELIEVING.

3) amount - small - Taste - (NOT EATING) TASTING.

Word HEARD is called - Enlightening
(Hearing Gods True Knowledge)

Word continued to be HEARD - increases to:
Enlightenment. Ie, increased True Knowledge of Gods Word.

Continue HEARING....Gods gift of FAITH is Increased.

Tasting, becomes Eating,

A person Hearing, Tasting, ALSO experiences, receiving "the same comparable measure" OF Gods Blessings..
Hear - Taste - small measure of Faith - small measure of Blessing.
Continue....each thing Increases...

It is an Introduction and Preparation time-frame.

(Considering....
The Lords Word is a Supernatural Lesson.
The Things a person is hearing IS About the Lord God Almighty; THAT:
Can NOT be seen or heard.

Some men hear for awhile, decide they are not interested, don't believe it, and ...
Stop...it is they who have fallen from FAITH.

It has nothing to do with a man, Becoming Converted, Becoming gifted with Gods FULLNESS of FAITH, and then, "deciding" they want no part of it...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, are you a Gentile?

What do you think would be the reason for God to cut off every Gentile?

Cut off every gentile? As in lose salvation?

Again, You have no understanding of the passage. The passage is about Israel getting cut off. And a warning to gentiles not to be puffed up. That just as they lost the blessing, we can be cut off also.

Do you think that it is possible that we, as Gentiles, might be coming to that point, where God might desire to cut us all off?

I do think the church is losing its way, and if it does not repent. we are going to see exactly what Paul prophesied. sooner rather than later

So, if the only ones who are saved are those who produce fruit, you are implying that a man is saved by works. Because fruit and works are nearly synonymous in Titus 3:14.

Nope

the saved produce fruit, because they have been born of God. Not because they are special

Personally, I believe that an apple tree is an apple tree whether it bears apples or not. If it does not bear fruit, God will say to the manager, "cut it down...why cumbereth it the ground?" To which the manager shall reply, "let it alone for three years; and let me dung it so that it is nourished; and if it still doesn't produce after that, then thou shalt cut it down."

But the point being that the tree that will produce fruit after three years is saved while it doesn't produce fruit; though it is in danger of condemnation.

Then you missed the whole point. The passage said the ones whi did not produce fruit basically died and withered away. They NEVER produced fruit. So this example would fit non of the ones, except the last one. Which produced fruit.

The plant in Luke 8:13 is a living plant; it is saved for all practical purposes until it withers away; thus showing that it was planted in shallow ground and therefore had no root.

Your right it had no root The root is christ that's why it produced no fruit. No one is saved apart from Christ.

There are those who are saved from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14) and the kingdom of hell, if only for a season; and they fall away from the faith later.

So God saves people and then unsaves them? What does that make a god who does not keep his promises? Did he redeem them or not? I say yes he did. And gavwe them ETERNAL (not conditional) Life

They do not have everlasting life from the perspective of eternity; for they had a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith; and their faith served to make them holy for a moment of time but when temptation came they fell away from that holiness.

They had no faith at all.

What you just stated about temptation and failure is put them under the law. Shame on you

 

[justbyfaith]

The word of God is all prescriptive. And anything that is “descriptive” is prescriptive in application. All the parables of Jesus are “descriptive”, but the prescriptive things in the descriptive are discerned by the spiritual man.

Because all things in the word of God works these things:

Psalm 19:7-8,11
[7] The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. [8] The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. [11] Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine

Only a liar would contradict scriptures and tell you only SOME scripture is profitable for doctrine because some things in scripture are “prescriptive” only with no doctrinal value.

It’s only those who are trapped in false doctrine that come up with these clever devices to dismiss the scriptures that challenge their traditional belief.

So, in this, are you attempting to say that you believe that Matthew 7:21 does in fact teach salvation by works?

 

[justbyfaith]

That just as they lost the blessing, we can be cut off also.

So, what does it mean to be cut off? You are saying that you believe that you can be cut off in that statement.

They had no faith at all.

They had faith. They believed for a while and then fell away (read Luke 8:13).

In the context, Luke 8:12, I believe you will find the doctrine that their faith even saved them.

What you just stated about temptation and failure is put them under the law. Shame on you

Shame on you...for not knowing what the scriptures teach. I suggest that you go and meditate on what the following passages mean.

Luke 8:12-13,

Romans 11:20-22,

Hebrews 6:1-8.

 

[amigo de christo]

Paul who wrote more Books of the Bible than anyone was in error?

Not at all my friend . not at all .

 

[amigo de christo]

I don't think that @amigo de christo is saying that Paul was in error.

exactly my friend . i was making a good point . Not in the least was he in error .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, what does it mean to be cut off? You are saying that you believe that you can be cut off in that statement.

Are you hard of hearing?

Its NOT ABOUT ME. Its about THE GENTILE CHURCH.

They had faith. They believed for a while and then fell away (read Luke 8:13).

They believed, No one has ever been saved by mere belief.

In the context, Luke 8:12, I believe you will find the doctrine that their faith even saved them.

If they were saved they would have produced fruit. True faith plus the holy spirit produced fruit.

Shame on you...for not knowing what the scriptures teach. I suggest that you go and meditate on what the following passages mean.

Luke 8:12-13,

Romans 11:20-22,

Hebrews 6:1-8.

Shame on me? You can't even talk like a christian, You talk like all the other know it alls I have met,

Whatever dude, I get sick of you internet trash talkers who do not know how to have a civil discussion Good day sir. Good luck earning your salvation

 

[Michiah-Imla]

So, in this, are you attempting to say that you believe that Matthew 7:21 does in fact teach salvation by works?

No. I believe the following:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith

However:

Titus 3:8
[8] ...affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

These DESCRIBED here:

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

...Have not maintained good works and were lost. Once Saved Always Saved is the chief culprit in why many will end up in this dreadful situation in the end.

 

[amigo de christo]

hmmmm how soon we forget
Galatians 6:1

“Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.”

yes we will now them by there Fruits but we are not the fruit inspectors if i was to know you personally and hung around with you a while . i will assure you i can find some of your faults. that are not fruit. we are fishers of men we catch them God cleans them . for the record i have been using Bible we ARE NOT the judge of anyone's salvation , it is not us who determines who goes to hell and who dont. we can only say what the word of God says ,
Romans 2:16

“In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.”
2 Timothy 4:1

“I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;”
your passionate plea is not very passionate


btw the post is about osas do you think those who hold to osas is going to hell?

No , not everyone who hollers OSAS is going to go to hell . There are some who actually preach against sin
and dont encourage us that we can do just anything and cant lose salvation . THEY instead
at least say , WELL these dont know GOD or never did . Thus they seem okay .
But if one can willfully say some of the things i hear these hyper grace ones teach , i highly stand in doubt as to them even KNOWING HIM at all .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What do you suppose it took for Abraham to remain righteous? After God had declared Him righteous?

That he keep believing in the promise.

You've asserted that your forgiveness of sins is doled out sin by sin...

Only in the sense that your sins don't affect the cleansing you received the moment you first believed. You aren't justified over and over again like the Catholics believe.

When you consider Abraham, what of his righteousness? God declared Abraham righteous, and Paul asserts Abraham remained righteous, was that because Abraham kept believing God would give him descendants? Would that be your thinking?

Yes, he remained justified through his ongoing faith in the promises of God. See, Abraham had the opportunity to chuck the promises and go back to where he came from, but he didn't. He continued in faith till the day he died.....

All these people died in faith, without having received the things they were promised. However, they saw them and welcomed them from afar. And they acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. Now those who say such things show that they are seeking a country of their own. If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. Hebrews 11:13-15​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Have you witnessed God ever being unfaithful all through scripture even once?

No.
That's why we are exhorted to keep believing......because God is faithful.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
​

Don't throw away such a sure hope. Keep believing and don't give up hope because the promise is sure.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No

we do not agree.

WHy do you keep insisting this when it is not true?

Oh, I thought you believed that the true believer must be a believer all the way to the end or else he was never a true believer. I agree that we must be a believer all the the way to the end.

 

[justbyfaith]

Are you hard of hearing?

Its NOT ABOUT ME. Its about THE GENTILE CHURCH.

You're not a member of the Gentile church?

They believed, No one has ever been saved by mere belief.

You're saying that faith and belief are two separate things?

I believe that faith is the noun for the verb believe; and belief is a synonymous noun.

 

[justbyfaith]

No. I believe the following:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith

However:

Titus 3:8
[8] ...affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works.

These DESCRIBED here:

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

...Have not maintained good works and were lost. Once Saved Always Saved is the chief culprit in why many will end up in this dreadful situation in the end.

You appear to be saying that you believe that we continue to be saved by continued works.

Is that the correct estimation of your theology?

 

[amigo de christo]

No.
That's why we are exhorted to keep believing......because God is faithful.

Let us hold resolutely to the hope we profess, for He who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
​

Don't throw away such a sure hope. Keep believing and don't give up hope because the promise is sure.

Exactly my friend . GOD even says real clear if the wicked turns from his wickedness , GOD forgives
But if the righteous turns from Him and does wickedness , GOD will punish , destroy , unless of course they repent .
GOD never desires the death of even the wicked . But HE cannot deny HIMSELF .
IF one turns to Christ they have the promise of eternal life , but if they turn from HIM , watch out grave danger
lest they repent and be restored . Far better is it to have never known the way of righteousness
than after knowing it , Ye turn from it and return to the pit and are overcome .
Many folks try and justify anything .
The truth is its real simple .
Who is in control of our life , i mean can anyone die before GOD decides its their time . NO .
Yet many always use an counter argument and try and say , but what if , what if i forget to repent .
DID GOD let david forget , or did HE use nathan to remind david and thus david was led to repentance .
Exactly . AND GOD uses people who are HIS to warn others who as even DAVID was are HIS to REPENT if they are in error .
Exactly . The problem is , some wont repent no matter how some are warned . THAT IS ON THEM .
BUT GOD will warn a lamb , or send one to a lamb if a lamb is in error , TO LEAD IT TO REPENTANCE AGAIN .
Fact is , we are to be warning and reminding all lambs of both the severity of GOD and His goodness .
You know what the main thing is today . THEY no longer even preach sound doctrine which could have led anyone in error
to repentance , nor do they bother to remind the church to flee evil and do good . I dont see the HOLY GHOST at work in many folks .
Instead i see many who are yet carnal and they rest on an acroynm , INSTEAD OF learning JESUS and HIS PATTERN
and HIS warnings and HIS reminders . Nor the do they learn the whole of the apostles warnings and reminders .
Instead of learning JESUS they learn OSAS . And that my friend is not rightly dividing the truth .
IF we omit warnings we do so to our own harm . IF we omit the fact that we must continue in the goodness of GOD otherwise we will be cast out
We are omitting truths which can indeed help us to beware and walk as we ought too . SEE every warning is for our good .
EVERY WORD of GOD is for our good . UNTO the hearers and doers . But unto men who twist doctrine
to suit a teaching of man , they run into grave danger . GOD loves us , ITS WHY HE WARNS US .