Once Saved Always Saved

[Ferris Bueller]

Do you think It is the Holy spirit talked about in John 14:16

If you don't mind me jumping in here.....

The comforter is the Holy Spirit. Why do you suppose Jesus chose to use the mood of uncertainty for the verb 'may abide'?

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever John 14:16​

 

[Charlie24]

I agree Human reason wont cut it, But forever is forever right? If you lost salvation either it doesn't remain forever or if gets thrown into hell, neither is possible If you think about it, The Gift of God is eternal Life Because sins have been dealt with, Its not eternal if it is temporary, Its not a free pass till you muck up again, you are redeemed from the curse of the law, never to come into condemnation, he who began a good work will complete it, Eternal security comes from simply Believing What God said

Also God doesn't dwell in buildings made by hands its a bit different to a Body that's alive made by God in his image, The Temple doesn't become a child, That's what it is about The new birth you cant become unborn

You have to understand the difference between a backslider and a blasphemer.

Your sins will never separate you from God as long as you believe. This is not a license to sin, it was your faith that saved you. You will not want to sin, but you will fail at times.

But the one who gives up on Christ, no longer believes for whatever reason, he no longer has an Advocate with the Father to plead for His sins. This is the one who has "openly put Christ to shame and treaded under foot the covenant of God. This is a blasphemer.

 

[Charlie24]

Oh I saw the truth, 40 years ago,

you have not shown me anything to counter that truth, yet you still attack me as if I am lost,

I know you are not lost, you have repeatedly shown your faith in Christ.

I have never said or even hinted that you were lost, you have proven otherwise in your posts!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Bible tells us it is our knoweldge we have eternal life that empowers us to continue to believe, it’s on Christ, not us

1 John 5: 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son. 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

if I do not know I ha e eternal life, I have no power to continue to believe, my faith will crumble, because it is based in self not God,

I don't think anyone argues that we have within ourselves the power to believe. We believe in God through the power of God's gift of assurance and certainty (a.k.a. faith). Osas says you'll always avail yourself of that power. Anti-osas says you have the choice not to. But the important point here is that you do. Everyone agrees on that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

One who no longer believes is an antichrist

john Said they were never of us,,

Trust John, not human reasoning,

As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. 1 John 2:24​

Let's not be like those who left. Keep believing.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Anyone who says he/she doesn't sin is lying!

You are a self admitted servant of sin (as are many people running around claiming they know God):

John 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

And they don’t seem to realize who they really are of:

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

Because:

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

So if you want to be saved you better search the scriptures and see how to be truly born again! Because:

John 3:3
...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Now don’t go exercising your scripture perverting skills you were taught and do this rather:

2 Kings 22:13
Go ye, enquire of the Lord for me, and for the people... concerning the words of this book: for great is the wrath of the Lord that is kindled against us, because our fathers have not hearkened unto the words of this book, to do according unto all that which is written concerning us.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So your going to tell me that a belief I have held for over 40 years is not what I think.

What I'm telling you is that osas is a teaching from a few centuries ago. What you or anyone else has done with it is one thing, but osas is what the person who wrote the book on it 500 years ago says it is.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

eternal life and eternal security was around long before calvin, calvin spoke of perseverance of the saints, it was not even osas.

Actually it was osas. He said true believers can not stop believing, always persevering in the faith. And those who don't persevere show themselves to have never really been saved to begin with. That's the official osas teaching that Calvin taught the church. What others have done with it is what it is, but osas is defined by the author of it, Calvin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

again I do not believe we must believe to end!

John thinks so......

As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24​

'Let'. That's YOU allowing the word to remain in you, and if YOU do that you will remain in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life. But as I say, the important thing is that the word remain in us, not if it's possible for that not to happen in the true believer.

That would place the onus on me, and not on God, so please stop saying this

Are you afraid that a works gospel? If you think so, we can visit Paul's discourse about faith vs. works in Romans 3 and 4 to dispel that myth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then it’s conditional on you having the power to keep believing and not turn against the truth that saved you in the first place.

No, that's not it. No one can trust God except by the supernatural power of faith he gives a person to trust him. That's why there's no boast of self righteous work in trusting God for the forgiveness of sin. The condition is not on having your own power to trust God. It's conditioned on you having and keeping God's power to trust His word.

 

[HisLife]

If you don't mind me jumping in here.....

The comforter is the Holy Spirit. Why do you suppose Jesus chose to use the mood of uncertainty for the verb 'may abide'?

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever John 14:16

Hey you have never asked before, where did these manners come from, But because it describes a future action? Do you think his father would say No, We could use never leave you or forsake you For perspective without those pesky uncertain verbs

 

[Michiah-Imla]

@Ferris Bueller

You say you must keep believing to be saved. I see in scripture that initial belief gets you saved, but you can end up like this in your belief:

1 Corinthians 15:2
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And:

James 2:19
...the devils also believe, and tremble.

A person who sins willfully, even in belief, will face condemnation.

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So I can’t help but find error in what you’re saying (unless I’m not fully getting where you’re coming from).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Hey you have never asked before, where did these manners come from, But because it describes a future action? Do you think his father would say No, We could use never leave you or forsake you For perspective without those pesky uncertain verbs

Do you know where 'never leave you or forsake you' comes from? It comes from Deuteronomy 31. Read that chapter and see what the condition is for God never leaving or forsaking his people and that he will indeed forsake us under certain circumstances. Like I say, it's conditioned on continued faith in God. Both osas and anti-osas agree on this. We need to stop fighting about this and encourage each other in what actually matters and which all of us agree on.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

@Ferris Bueller

You say you must keep believing to be saved. I see in scripture that initial belief gets you saved, but you can end up like this in your belief:

1 Corinthians 15:2
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And:

James 2:19
...the devils also believe, and tremble.

A person who sins willfully, even in belief, will face condemnation.

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So I can’t help but find error in what you’re saying (unless I’m not fully getting where you’re coming from).

It looks like you are understanding me correctly. We must end in the same faith in the same Jesus we started out in in order to be saved when Jesus returns.

 

[Charlie24]

@Ferris Bueller

You say you must keep believing to be saved. I see in scripture that initial belief gets you saved, but you can end up like this in your belief:

1 Corinthians 15:2
[2] By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And:

James 2:19
...the devils also believe, and tremble.

A person who sins willfully, even in belief, will face condemnation.

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

So I can’t help but find error in what you’re saying (unless I’m not fully getting where you’re coming from).

The "willful sin" is not sin that our Advocate can plead on our behalf to the Father, it is not committing sin.

It is the sin of apostasy! "Willfully no longer believing in Christ after you have "received the knowledge of the truth."

You no longer have faith in Christ and "there remains no sacrifice for your sins."

Without faith, there is nothing left that can be sacrificed for your sins, you are no longer saved!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The "willful sin"...

It is the sin of apostasy! "Willfully no longer believing in Christ after you have "received the knowledge of the truth."

You are adding to scripture. Stop doing that:

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

 

[Charlie24]

You are adding to scripture. Stop doing that:

Revelation 22:18
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book

Oh, but I'm not adding to scripture!

If man believes and commits a sin, any sin, he has Jesus as his Advocate to plead his case before God by faith.

But if man commits the "willful sin" of no longer believing in Christ, he has forfeited his Advocate and his sins are not covered.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Nobody is claiming that the Bible says to repent to earn salvation. So you're asking us to show you something in the Bible that no one is claiming is there.

Justbyfaithplusluckyrepentance Believes and teaches , along with many others in here and out on the streets that Jesus Saves....BUT , in ADDITION to that ( A False, Accursed Addition to 1Cor15:1-4 that Paul warns about in Galatians) , one must Repent all of their Sins before they die or they will go to Hell.They “ Earn” their Salvation in this manner, or at least they will certainly “ Earn” Damnation Without it....
Live a great life Of Faith...Love God.....Love your Neighbor....conquer sin.....give away everything you have to the poor—— it’s all for naught! If you Bump your head and let out a curse and have a heart-attack and die suddenly without expressing remorse and sorrow about it and vowing never to do it again......sorry, pal.....you are Damned forever....
THAT is the “ Repentance “ That I preach against—— Tying that type of Repentance to Salvation and Rejecting the GRACE that is the TRUE means of Salvation....
If you are an Unbeliever in the Gospel and then you “ change your mind” and “Turn to God” and become an actual “ BELIEVER “ in that once- Rejected Gospel ,putting your Complete Trust in the Finished Work Of Jesus on The Cross.... You have done the only type of “ repentance” that you will ever need to do as far as your Salvation is concerned.....
The other type of Repentance—- the sorrow and regret for sins, trying not to do them again....THAT type of Repentance FOLLOWS Salvation.....it is a great thing...it’s part of Sanctification as God Transforms us into the Image Of His Son....once again....it’s Sanctification....NOT Salvation....Salvation is “ Gift”, remember? Accept it or reject it....THAT is Salvation....Trusting the Gospel.....a Gospel Of GRACE—— NOT Repentance....
Anybody can “repent” in the sense Of having Sorrow for Sin .....it is a waste of time if it does not lead you to Jesus.....just ask a “ Repentance King , Judas.....His Sorrow and Regret for His Sin did not result in a “Turning to Jesus”—- He Turned to a Hangman’s Noose.....There isa lesson to be learned from that....God Bless...

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If man believes and commits a sin, any sin, he has Jesus as his Advocate to plead his case before God by faith.

But if man commits the "willful sin" of no longer believing in Christ, he has forfeited his Advocate and his sins are not covered.

There is no scripture that teaches about “the willful sin of no longer believing in Christ”.

Christ will dismiss you for ANY sin:

Matthew 7:22-23
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is no discrimination in the kind of iniquity one works.

Your lies are not going to help you at judgment day:

Isaiah 28:15
[15] Because ye have said, ...when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 

[Charlie24]

There is no scripture that teaches about “the willful sin of no longer believing in Christ”.

Christ will dismiss you for ANY sin:

Matthew 7:22-23
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? [23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

There is no discrimination in the kind of iniquity one works.

Your lies are not going to help you at judgment day:

Isaiah 28:15
[15] Because ye have said, ...when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

We have been showing you dozens of scripture throughout this thread where man has walked away from Christ, no longer believing.

The consequences of this willful act is presented in every verse.

And you can say, no scripture teaches of no longer believing in Christ?