Once Saved Always Saved

[justbyfaith]

As if the power of life and death is in our own hands! If we are not kept by Jesus, well, it's pure hubris in my opinion for someone to say, "I've kept myself for my salvation". Just writing those words, knowing how deeply I disagree, makes me uncomfortable!

"I've kept myself for my salvation"? Who would dare! But many do.

See 1 John 5:18.

And yet you "have thoughts that would shame hell".

Just as you do, Blind man.

Nope. I can honestly say that I am not a wicked man; and therefore God is in all of my thoughts (Psalms 10:4).

Also, thank you for the compliment of calling me blind.

Job 9:21, Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.

Isa 42:19, Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as the LORD'S servant?

Jhn 9:41, Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑
As if the power of life and death is in our own hands! If we are not kept by Jesus, well, it's pure hubris in my opinion for someone to say, "I've kept myself for my salvation". Just writing those words, knowing how deeply I disagree, makes me uncomfortable!

"I've kept myself for my salvation"? Who would dare! But many do.

See 1 John 5:18.

?

Personally, I don't dare make any claim to keep myself saved. I think that view shows a deep misunderstanding of what justification is.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Are we saved by our power to continue. or Gods power to save us?

We persevere because He works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

If your cut off from salvation. were you ever saved to begin with?

That is a good question that I will not answer at this time. I think that a case can be made for both sides of the issue. However, as @Ferris Bueller teaches, it is irrelevant what is the answer. What matters is that you persevere to the end. Both sides of the issue agree on that.

So if you are already "holy" by practice. why are you in the process of being Sanctified.

I may be in the process of being sanctified, or the Lord may have completed that work in me.

But I am unaware of which one is really the case with me.

I disagree, 1 John 1: 8 is speaking of personal sin.

1 John 3 is speaking of habitual ongoing life of sin.
They do not counter each other because they are speaking of two things. One is a lifestyle of sin. 2 is any sin one can commit.

1 John 3:5-9 is speaking of committing even one sin. If 1 John 1:8 means what you think it does, then these verses are in contradiction to each other.

I would mention that people often read 1 John 1:8 wrong and interpret it wrong. They read it as follows.

"If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

That is not what it says. Read 1 John 1:8 again.

Perseverance indicates one will persevere.

saying one is always saved indicates its the power of God.

We persevere through faith in the power of God (1 Peter 1:5, 1 John 5:18).

If your claiming sanctifiation is done bu us persevering. I would be careful. That's all I am saying

If we don't persevere we might not be saved. See Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14.

So I am going to hell because I did not catch a mistake before I hit send?

I mean really man

I didn't say you are going to hell. Just that making a mistake when invoking the name of Jesus is a grave error.

Baptism is a work.

Nope.

If baptism is required to be saved.

I do not teach that baptism is required to be saved. A person can be saved through faith apart from water baptism.

However, water baptism seals the deal so that you can have absolute assurance.

If you merely believe you "should not perish" (John 3:16)...iffy.

If you believe and are baptized, you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16)...much more absolute.

If you call on the name of the Lord you "shall be saved" (Romans 10:13).

In the days of the early church they called on the name of the Lord at the time of baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16)

Not of works lest any one should boast. I know many who boast of their salvation, and if your saying you were saved by baptism, you are in effect boasting of earning your salvation.

No; because baptism is not a work.

Faulty logic. and untrue

Nope.

Many people who enter heaven not having been immersed in water.

I will not dispute this at this time.

I would warn you not to try to replace baptism of the spirit with some paster who immerses you in water. That is bordering on blasphemy.

How is it borderline blasphemy...?

In Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, we are given a conditional promise of the Holy Ghost if we will but repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins. This promises is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now read Romans 8:30.

 

[justbyfaith]

marks said: ↑
As if the power of life and death is in our own hands! If we are not kept by Jesus, well, it's pure hubris in my opinion for someone to say, "I've kept myself for my salvation". Just writing those words, knowing how deeply I disagree, makes me uncomfortable!

"I've kept myself for my salvation"? Who would dare! But many do.



?

Personally, I don't dare make any claim to keep myself saved. I think that view shows a deep misunderstanding of what justification is.

Much love!

1Jo 5:18, We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Are you saying that the apostle John didn't understand justification?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

If there is no ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED in the Bible, who then will live with Jesus in heaven forever?

Only the few born again Christians who enter the strait gate of sinless perfection.

Matthew 7:13-14
[13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction [Once Saved Always Saved], and many there be which go in thereat: [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

John 3:3
...Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

There are many Christians running around in the world with a counterfeit born again experience.

Woe unto them!

 

[justbyfaith]

Only the few born again Christians who enter the strait gate of sinless perfection.

Perfection (Hebrews 10:14 (kjv))....not "sinless" perfection (1 John 1:8).

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Perfection....not "sinless" perfection (1 John 1:8).

You’re stuck on falsehood regarding 1 John 1:8.

Those who confess their sins and sin no more are not deceived.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

Do not add nor take away from the scriptures:

Revelation 22:18-19
[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: [19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Blood Bought53 and Behold. Of course they rail against sin, and rightfully so, but they insist it has zero connection to the matter of salvation. They say you can be in the sin of an outright rejection of Christ and you are still saved. I think you and I agree that if one is in unbelief they are in no way shape or form saved. I thought maybe Behold was coming around to his senses but maybe not.

if they say you can be saved in total unbelief (as an Antichrist)

then they are wrong.

Are you sure they are saying this?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

But then he tells true believers to not also leave 4 verses later. So I think it best to not focus on osas and instead focus on what is clear in scripture—keep believing.

Please show me where he said this.

 

[Taken]

But then he tells converted people to keep believing, so apparently believing is not as automatic and assured to continue as some insist.

What converted people are "told to Keep believing"?

Scriptural quote?

 

[marks]

If you're really interested in the truth about this you should honestly look at the anti-osas argument

Someone else whom you judge to be insincere? Intellectually dishonest? And you don't see these statements betraying a weak understanding of the topic?

I wonder why you need to go after the person and not stay on point.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If your cut off from salvation. were you ever saved to begin with?

We told we can know we have eternal life. But if your "eternal life" ends, it was neither "eternal", nor did you "know" you had it.

No verse teaches that once you've been born of God anything can undo that. And so many teach that nothing ever will!

So much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It has been my continual prayer, almost every night, that every word that comes off of my keyboard might be from the Holy Ghost.

Just for the record....me too...

 

[justbyfaith]

Just for the record....me too...

So, how then is it that you call my gospel false and perverted? Does the Holy Spirit call His own words false and perverted?

Are you trying to say by this that you do not believe that the Lord answers either one of our prayers?

Or, that He only answers yours?

If you think that He only answers yours, it is just as valid to say that He only answers mine.

But I believe that you are not being honest in saying that you pray this every night...while I am being honest...for your motivation in saying it is to cast doubt on the ability of the Holy Spirit to answer such a prayer.

For you have lied before, by saying that you would give $1,000 and then $1,400, to anyone who refuted your contention scripturally where you teach that a man who continues to work iniquity will go to heaven. I refuted that contention scripturally and you did not pay up.

 

[justbyfaith]

We told we can know we have eternal life. But if your "eternal life" ends, it was neither "eternal", nor did you "know" you had it.

No verse teaches that once you've been born of God anything can undo that. And so many teach that nothing ever will!

So much love!

If you have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (or, mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel), your life might not be defined as "everlasting".

While your faith did save you (Ephesians 2:8-9) from sin (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:14), from eternity's perspective it did not save you from hell...because if you fall away (Luke 8:13) or are cut off (Romans 11:20-22), you will not go to heaven and therefore from eternity's perspective you were not saved from the fate of everlasting hell...while you may have been saved from the kingdom of hell for a season in your life.

 

[Charlie24]

Galatians 5:22-23 KJV
[22] But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, [23] Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Rom. 10:17

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God"

The fruit of faith from the Spirit is a growing faith!

The faith to believe comes from the hearing of the Gospel/Word of God!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Today's version of osas has many Christians thinking their sin doesn't matter.

it doesn’t .....as far as one’s Salvation is concerned.... “ By Grace you are Saved, through Faith...”

We are Saved by Who we Believe in....not by what we do...the Former will take care of the latter...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We persevere because He works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure (Philippians 2:13).

Then its not us persevering, Its him keeping.

That is a good question that I will not answer at this time. I think that a case can be made for both sides of the issue. However, as @Ferris Bueller teaches, it is irrelevant what is the answer. What matters is that you persevere to the end. Both sides of the issue agree on that.

I do not agree at all.
I do not persevere. God keeps me. If I have to persevere. it is me saving myself.

I may be in the process of being sanctified, or the Lord may have completed that work in me.

But I am unaware of which one is really the case with me.

Are you a babe in Christ? A young man? A mature adult? and even if you are mature. Have you stopped growing in Christ?

Unless you think you are perfect and can not grow anymore. How can you say you are unsure

1 John 3:5-9 is speaking of committing even one sin. if 1 John 1:8 means what you think it does, then these verses are in contradiction to each other.

I would mention that people often read 1 John 1:8 wrong and interpret it wrong. They read it as follows.

"If we say that we do no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

That is not what it says. Read 1 John 1:8 again.

I read John 8 many times

He says if we say we have no sin. this means if we claim we have stopped sinning.

1 John chapter 3 is talking about ongoing habitual sin.

Not sure why you cant see this

We persevere through faith in the power of God (1 Peter 1:5, 1 John 5:18).



If we don't persevere we might not be saved. See Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14.

Then you are teaching a works based salvation. based on your power to persevere.

That is a false gospel.

I didn't say you are going to hell. Just that making a mistake when invoking the name of Jesus is a grave error.

Not even worth responding to.

Nope.

if you say so.

I do not teach that baptism is required to be saved. A person can be saved through faith apart from water baptism.

However, water baptism seals the deal so that you can have absolute assurance.

It does Says who?

So I have absolute assurance because some man immerses me in water and not because God himself baptizes me into Christ?

Sorry my friend, My assurance is in God not some pastor or any man for that matter

If you merely believe you "should not perish" (John 3:16)...iffy.

If you believe and are baptized, you "shall be saved" (Mark 16:16)...much more absolute.

If you call on the name of the Lord you "shall be saved" (Romans 10:13).

In the days of the early church they called on the name of the Lord at the time of baptism (Acts of the Apostles 22:16)

John 3: 16 is not mere belief. Mere belief never saved anyone or gave anyone eternal life (james)

No; because baptism is not a work.

Keep believing this. It is just as much a work as obeying any other command of God

How is it borderline blasphemy...?

Because you attribute the work of God to some man. By defenition, This is blasphemy

In Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39, we are given a conditional promise of the Holy Ghost if we will but repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth for the remission of sins. This promises is given to as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Now read Romans 8:30.

Again your wrong. Your reading a flawed English text. The Greek makes no such claim.

 

[justbyfaith]

What converted people are "told to Keep believing"?

Scriptural quote?

Colossians 1:21-23.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

No man plucked them out of the Father's hand, they plucked themselves out of His hand!

If a man is Saved—- in God's Hand—- If later on in the FUTURE he tried to pluck Himself “ out” of that Hand, Scripture says that is not Possible , because “ NOTHING in the FUTURE” can happen to reverse what had already taken place....NOTHING means “ Nothing”..... that would include “ You” trying to escape His grasp....