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Wrangler

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This seems so glib and insubstantial I'm going to need a moment . . .

Much love!

I noticed when quoting Ferris, you neglected to include his Scriptural support.

Because they want to. The Bible tells us the reason to want to is good.......

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23

since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14
It's good to be reminded of this so we will want to continue to believe to the very end.

Where is your Scriptural support in the negative? This is what I recall. I recall our Lord Jesus praying - a lot!

If what you are saying is true, there is no reason for this. The fact that Jesus, of all people prayed, and prayed frequently, tells me it is easy in this world to get distracted from the will of God. What is your reason marks, for taking the position that a person's faith cannot be found wanting? Even Jesus needed to be strengthened! I cannot imagine why else Paul would write about dying to Christ daily! Every day we are tempted by the flesh to succumb. Why in the world is it shocking that some of our siblings in Christ do succumb?
 
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Wrangler

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Peter is not equating the common man, he is talking about ignorant and unstable Christians who twist and distort Paul's letters to their own destruction.

I know. The person I quoted was distorting its application. Many times he used it to bludgeon a simple and straight forward understanding of knowing God. To him, only Bible fluent in ancient and dead languages have any hope of grasping the contents of what we call in English today, the Bible.

He's pedantic. That is his idol.
 

marks

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I noticed when quoting Ferris, you neglected to include his Scriptural support.
His quote didn't actually support his assertion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ferris Bueller said:
Because they want to. The Bible tells us the reason to want to is good.......

Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23

since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14

It's good to be reminded of this so we will want to continue to believe to the very end.
~~~~~~~~~~

These quotes admonish us to hold unswerving. But they don't say where the motivation comes from. Ferris answered, they continue in faith because they want to, but the Bible, and not in these passages, doesn't make that statement.

I'd be looking for a passage that says the same thing.

Much love!
 

marks

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Where is your Scriptural support in the negative? This is what I recall. I recall our Lord Jesus praying - a lot!

If what you are saying is true, there is no reason for this. The fact that Jesus, of all people prayed, and prayed frequently, tells me it is easy in this world to get distracted from the will of God. What is your reason marks, for taking the position that a person's faith cannot be found wanting? Even Jesus needed to be strengthened! I cannot imagine why else Paul would write about dying to Christ daily! Every day we are tempted by the flesh to succumb. Why in the world is it shocking that some of our siblings in Christ do succumb?

Peter wrote, we are kept by the power of God through faith to a salvation ready to be revealed in the last day.
Paul wrote to those who have died and raised with Jesus that we will appear with Him in glory.
Paul likewise wrote we are sealed unto the day of redemption.

There are so many places I can point to that tell us we are secure in Christ.

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, He cannot deny Himself"

You wrote, "that a person's faith cannot be found wanting?"

What results from our faltering faith? Becoming unborn? Remaining immature? Not too much spiritual fruit?

Succomb to what? To the fires of hell? or to sins which will result in chastening? or something else?

All these answers need to come from the pages of Scripture, and all must harmonize together.

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

This passage is true, and much be accounted for in any soteriology. This is prophecy, and will be fulfilled.

Much love!
 

marks

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There are circumstances in life when someone will walk away from Christ, no longer believing in what saved them, they deny Him in His saving grace.

Who?

This sounds fictional / hypothetical to me. Who can you point to that was born again and became unborn again? Where in the the Bible to you see God's begotten child being "unbegotten"?

Much love!
 
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marks

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That is an impossibility unless of course, God turns out to be a Liar.....

“ Anybody that asks to be Saved will be Saved”

Do you think God is a “liar”..... I don’t.......that’s how I know I am Saved....how about you?
They call something "saved" that may be lost.

If that's true, it's not much of a savior, now, is it?

Much love!
 
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Illuminator

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They call something "saved" that may be lost.

If that's true, it's not much of a savior, now, is it?

Much love!
A non-sequitur. The Savior does not obliterate our free will. It's possible for some to turn away from Him, but exceedingly rare. Joe Biden is "saved", but lost by sanctioning the murder of innocent babies.
 

Wrangler

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There are so many places I can point to that tell us we are secure in Christ.

"If we are faithless, He remains faithful, He cannot deny Himself"

Discern the difference between keepers of the faith being secure in Christ from unbelievers.

IMO, the history of one’s faith is irrelevant. The only time that matters is now. Past faith does not affect the state of an unbeliever.
 

theefaith

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Agreed. While I admit there are verses in support of both positions, I side with Jesus talking about salt losing its flavor and vines that don't produce fruit are destined for fire.

I do find the ex post facto reasoning of OSAS ironic; that if someone who was saved turns their back on God, they weren't REALLY saved to begin with.

cos is a faulty idea of salvation
 

theefaith

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Maybe it is but my point is once you are born you can't be unborn. And whatever you do, even denying Jesus we remain his children and he never stops loving us and welcoming us back when we see the error of our ways. Don't forget that Peter denied Jesus three times but he was forgiven.

you can’t fall from Grace?
 

theefaith

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Is anyone saved in this life or at the hour of death? Matt 24:13
 

justbyfaith

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I agree. justbyfaith is an enthusiast but is unbelievably theologically lost. I will pray for him.

Says a man who denies Christ's Deity as a matter of course.

Your prayers will do nothing for me because you are not in Christ...the Bible teaches that if you continue to deny the Deity of Christ to your dying breath, you will die in your sins (John 8:24)...and that means that you cannot possibly be in the Lord so that your prayers for anyone would ever avail.

Because you regard iniquity in your heart (your unbelief as concerning Christ's Deity), the Lord will not hear you (Psalms 66:18).

Very presumptuous of you to suggest I don't know one thing about our Father.
For the sake of peace I will leave you to your belief. I had a simple question that is worth discussing with those who are willing and able to do so.
You are not discussing or debating anything. Instead you choose to be condescending and arrogant.
I will just agree to disagree with your belief.
Have a blessed day.

No, I did not suggest that about you.

I was actually talking to @BreadOfLife in the post that you are responding to here.

I'm not sure how you mistook that; the quote that I was responding to was clearly a quote that @BreadOfLife had written.

I'm asking a certain question, Why is it that saved people continue to have faith?

The person who continues in their confidence to the end . . . why do they do that? What makes it so that a person is faithful to the end? Believes to the end? Endures to the end? Why do God's children do that?

Those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (or mere mental assent to the tenets of the gospel) can fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).

But those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14) are sealed by the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 1:13-14, Ephesians 4:30, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5) and are instilled with an everlasting faith; even unto everlasting life (John 6:47)...which is life that can never come to an end...otherwise it would have been defined as temporal.


I think many who are fixated on eradicating sins on the belief that they must in order to remain saved have shallow ideas about what sin really is. They focus on their behaviors and thoughts without even realizing the mindset itself is of the flesh.

Nevertheless that mindset is the default of the flesh; and the law was given to show those who are of that mindset that they are sinners in need of a Saviour.

Those who have had all of their sins cleansed by the blood of Christ (1 John 1:7) tend not to look inward; but those who do look inward will find that there is indwelling sin.

I think that a key to overcoming sin is to look to Christ rather than inward. However, when we confess our sins...when we walk in the light as He is in the light....this will result in His cleansing us from all sin and unrighteousness (1 John 1:7, 1 John 1:9)...so there is a benefit to looking inward as He shines His light on us and reveals the cobwebs of sin in the nooks and crannies of our life.

But there also comes a point where a man is completely cleansed and at that point there is no more looking inward, except the Holy Spirit shines His light on something new that has just come in from the outside that needs to be confessed so that it might be cleansed from the system.
 
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Heart2Soul

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No, I did not suggest that about you.

I was actually talking to @BreadOfLife in the post that you are responding to here.
I missed that...my apologies...but still try to refrain from such accusations. Everyone has some excellent wisdom to share. Even if it is a simple testimony.
Have a blessed day.
 
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justbyfaith

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I missed that...my apologies...but still try to refrain from such accusations. Everyone has some excellent wisdom to share. Even if it is a simple testimony.
Have a blessed day.
Thank you, may the Lord abundantly bless you also.

I believe that his statement that I was responding to was this:

If you knew the FIRST thing about languages - you would understand this.

Therefore I said this to him:

if you knew even one thing about the Omnipotence, sovereignty, and love of God, you would realize that He is not going to allow his unadulterated message to be lost to the church, simply because the majority of the church today speaks ands reads English.
 
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justbyfaith

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The Bible says no such thing. It says believing who he is, which I do believe he is the Messiah just as he said he was in Mark 14:62
You want to continue to be blind to the reality that Jesus is speaking of His Deity as He is referring back to Exodus 3:14 in John 8:24.

Exo 3:14, And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Jhn 8:24, I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

I pray that the Holy Spirit may open your eyes to this reality and convict you of your unbelief concerning this and also convince you of the reality of Christ's Deity. This is something that only He can do.

In the meantime, this is the reality concerning you as you continue to deny this absolute truth of holy scripture.

2Co 4:3, But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

Wrangler

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You want to continue to be blind to the reality that Jesus is speaking of His Deity

Jesus is not God. One way to know that is the verses we went over where God (in his unitarian nature) selected and sent Jesus. Understanding language usage, this is not how one would talk of themselves.

, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

My mirror is the image of me. My mirror is not me - or God.
 

BreadOfLife

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Your lack of humility is what is shocking. Not once did our Lord insult his opponents as you have in this thread.
WRONG.
Jesus called His opponents a "Brood of vipers" (Matt. 12:34) and "Blind guides" (Matt. 23:24).

However - not ONCE did our Lord deny the truth as many times as YOU and others have on this thread . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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You are wrong to equate the common man with being ignorant and unstable. Humans are not all knowing and therefore, inherently ignorant to a certain degree.
I didn't equate the comon man with the ignorant.

I equated YOU with the ignorant because you twist the Scripures to your own destruction (2 Pet. 3:16).
 
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