The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
While repenting unto God is a work of man, there is a problem concerning that. Repentance unto God, is something that was shown by scriptures that which fallen man seems not able to do. For repentance is not a one time act but one that is a continuing act, even to the very end of man’s earthly life.

So God told the ninevites to repent even though they couldn't? But they, in fact, did repent.

Obviously, God had given them faith that they were able to repent.

Tong
R2152

 

[Renniks]

One calls upon the name of the Lord because he was chosen by God for salvation and not the other way around where one is said to be chosen for salvation because he calls upon the name of the Lord.

Why some are saved and some were not, are secret, and belongs to God.

Oh? Is that why scripture encourages people to repent and why God laments when his people disobey? Is God lamenting what he irresistibly caused to happen? " I regret that I made these people who I irresistibly caused to not follow me because I only chose Noah and his family for salvation, and I'm mad because I didn't choose the rest, so I will now destroy them because I hate the evil that I caused to happen."

I don't remember God saying that at all.
What does scripture say?

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

This is the account of Noah and his family.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth."

I guess God didn't get your memo about him being the reason people don't follow him.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
No. That’s your mind, not mine.

There are things secret of God. They are secret in that God had not revealed them. What God had revealed are the things He wanted for us to know, for our good. And they are sufficient to serve God’s purpose. If for God that was sufficient, it should be to us.

Paul, concerning God said:

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

Sure. But why some are saved isn't among the hidden things. It's spelled out all through the Bible.

And that is because they were chosen by the Father, who gave them to the Son to raise up at the last day.

But why He chose them among mankind is secret.

Tong
R2153

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If all Christ died for shall be made righteous , and all without exception are not made righteous, then, common sense tells us that Christ did not die for all without exception..

Rom 5: 19b
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So when the Bible says that Jesus died for sinners, does this mean that the elect are these sinners and the non elect are not?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Don’t wonder. We should believe God and in the one whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

It is not the Son of God who said that. It Paul who wrote and said of God, that He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, does that mean that all men will be saved? The obvious answer is NO. This is what Jesus said in John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” He also said in 6:37, “ All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” I did not say those, but the Lord Jesus Christ did. Were all men given by the Father to the Son to raise up in the last day? The answer is obviously NO.

And the reason all men will not be raised up in the last day is because they chose not to be, they rejected the Gospel call.

God will not say to those, I just didn't choose you, He will say, I have called you with my Gospel and you have rejected my Son.

Why did they reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Why did they not believe?

Their rejection and not believing in Jesus Christ is a showing, manifesting that they were not among those granted by the Father to come to the Son, that is, believe in the Son.

Tong
R2154

 

[Charlie24]

Why did they reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Why did they believe?

Their rejection and unbelief in Jesus Christ is a showing, manifesting that they were not among those granted by the Father to come to the Son, that is, believe in the Son.

Tong
R2154

What about those who you say God passed over? There will be a price to pay for teaching this when you stand before God!

Saying that Christ died for only those who He picked, oh yes, they will answer and it will be a bad day when it comes!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
If you are referring to John 3:16, that isn’t a call but a plain statement of what God had done to save mankind. The “whomsoever will” reveals who the saved are and were chosen and given to the Son to raise up at the last day (John 6:37,44).

I know there is no reasoning with you! No one can say anything for you to see the truth!

I just have to let it go, I'll not waste my time!

Everybody can reason for or against a view and everyone has the opportunity to refute a view that he believes is wrong. If you can’t refute, and choose to let go, that’s your call.

Tong
R2155

 

[Renniks]

Why God hardened Pharaoh is clearly stated in scriptures. And it’s not really about judgment, but about the sovereign will and purpose/s of God.

Tong
R2150

So what was his purpose? ultimately to bring the gospel to All Nations through the Israelites.. that's why Paul is mentioning Pharaoh in the first place, because it relates to that plan. But, that doesn't mean God can't kill two birds with one stone. He also judged the Egyptians for thier actions against his people and for following false gods.

 

[Renniks]

Obviously, God had given them faith that they were able to repent.

Tong
R2152

And where does it say that?

 

[Renniks]

And that is because they were chosen by the Father, who gave them to the Son to raise up at the last day.

But why He chose them among mankind is secret.

Tong
R2153

He chooses those who believe on his name to be sons of God.

"Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--"

They are reborn, which is all his doing, but only if they receive him

And they are chosen by his foreknowledge of who will believe.

"who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ and sprinkled with his blood:"

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Did God reveal in particular how He decided to create Lucifer, how He decided to have the tree of the knowledge of good and evil accessible to Adam when He did not want him to eat of it, etc.?

Red herrings. Or as I like to call them: " there goes a squirrel!" When someone changes to other subjects it's usually because they don't want to admit they are wrong.

What are you talking about there?

You said and contend “God doesn't leave us in the dark about how he decides.”

So I brought up a couple of things that God had decided to do where God had left us in the dark as to how he had decided to do them. And that is to refute your contention quoted above.

Tong
R2156

 

[Renniks]

Why did they reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Why did they not believe?

Their rejection and not believing in Jesus Christ is a showing, manifesting that they were not among those granted by the Father to come to the Son, that is, believe in the Son.

So God rejects himself? That's what you are saying. God did everything, that means the person was just a pawn.

 

[Renniks]

So I brought up a couple of things that God had decided to do where God had left us in the dark as to how he had decided to do them. And that is to refute your contention quoted above.

No you're throwing out rabbit trails, let's stick to the subject.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Why did they reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Why did they not believe?

Their rejection and not believing in Jesus Christ is a showing, manifesting that they were not among those granted by the Father to come to the Son, that is, believe in the Son.

Tong
R2154

More theological rubbish

 

[brightfame52]

So when the Bible says that Jesus died for sinners, does this mean that the elect are these sinners and the non elect are not?

Yes the elect are the sinners Christ died for, not non elect sinners.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

Yes the elect are the sinners Christ died for, not non elect sinners.

The Bible does not say what you want it to. It clearly says sinners not elect sinners. So if sinners only means the elect then the non elect must be righteous. This is the absurdity of your theology

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
One calls upon the name of the Lord because he was chosen by God for salvation and not the other way around where one is said to be chosen for salvation because he calls upon the name of the Lord.

Why some are saved and some were not, are secret, and belongs to God.

Oh? Is that why scripture encourages people to repent and why God laments when his people disobey? Is God lamenting what he irresistibly caused to happen? " I regret that I made these people who I irresistibly caused to not follow me because I only chose Noah and his family for salvation, and I'm mad because I didn't choose the rest, so I will now destroy them because I hate the evil that I caused to happen."

I don't remember God saying that at all.
What does scripture say?

The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

This is the account of Noah and his family.

Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he walked faithfully with God. 10 Noah had three sons: Shem, Ham and Japheth.

11 Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight and was full of violence. 12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways. 13 So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth."

I guess God didn't get your memo about him being the reason people don't follow him.

<<<I regret that I made these people who I irresistibly caused to not follow me because I only chose Noah and his family for salvation, and I'm mad because I didn't choose the rest, so I will now destroy them because I hate the evil that I caused to happen.>>>

And who said that God irresistibly caused the people to not follow him? Are you there again refuting your straw man?

Tong
R2157

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Why did they reject the Lord Jesus Christ? Why did they believe?

Their rejection and unbelief in Jesus Christ is a showing, manifesting that they were not among those granted by the Father to come to the Son, that is, believe in the Son.

What about those who you say God passed over? There will be a price to pay for teaching this when you stand before God!

Saying that Christ died for only those who He picked, oh yes, they will answer and it will be a bad day when it comes!

<<<What about those who you say God passed over?>>>

Passed over? What about them?

<<<Saying that Christ died for only those who He picked, oh yes, they will answer and it will be a bad day when it comes!>>>

Who is saying that?

Tong
R2158

 

[Charlie24]

<<<What about those who you say God passed over?>>>

Passed over? What about them?

<<<Saying that Christ died for only those who He picked, oh yes, they will answer and it will be a bad day when it comes!>>>

Who is saying that?

Tong
R2158

We can find out who said that by you answering one simple question.

Does God pick and choose who will be saved or does man have free will to choose or reject Christ through the Gospel message?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Why God hardened Pharaoh is clearly stated in scriptures. And it’s not really about judgment, but about the sovereign will and purpose/s of God.

So what was his purpose? ultimately to bring the gospel to All Nations through the Israelites.. that's why Paul is mentioning Pharaoh in the first place, because it relates to that plan. But, that doesn't mean God can't kill two birds with one stone. He also judged the Egyptians for thier actions against his people and for following false gods.

The plagues could be for judgment. However, I was not talking about that but was talking about Pharaoh, his heart having been hardened by God.

Tong
R2159