No but I do want to read the writings of Newton and why he rejected TrinitarianIsm.
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The Case Against the Trinity
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Taken
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Hi W-
Trinity is a funny word, not in Scripture.
However ...
Tri prefix means Three-
Unity means the ties that BIND something in ONE AGREEMENT.
God IS BOUND in AGREEMENT "with Himself".
He is His own Counselor.
The Big Picture is Teaching men Gods WILL, is for men TO BE in His Likeness...
Body of the "Mind, Soul, Spirit"...all IN ONE WHOLENESS and WHOLE Agreement....
And ...with their Counselor.
Gods DESIRE is that a man's WILL is to Freely Elect/ Choose, God to BE a man's Counselor.
No man HAS a "patient" on the word "Trinity".
In common use language;
It most simplistically means;
Gods WHOLENESS..."Mind, Soul, Spirit", in Agreement.
"The Trinity"...has been depicted in sketches and drawing illustrations for centuries.
More modern sketches have added "words"...
Which I Reject..."Is not, Is not."
Scripture reveals;
Rev 4:
[8] And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
One Lord God Almighty-
many names, titles, descriptions.
(NOT unlike "ONE" Earthly mankind of thing having many names, titles, descriptions).
God Bless,
Taken
From today’s devotional reading. Obviously the child is not God or any part of God.
Luke 2:40
New Revised Standard Version
40 The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom; and the favor of God was upon him.
Luke 2:40
New Revised Standard Version
40 The child grew and became strong, filled with wisdom; and the favor of God was upon him.
jaybird
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And unlike many other scientist, he was not atheist.
So in conclusion Newton was deeply spiritual. studied scripture the same way he studied science.
On of the smartest men of all time.
And he takes one look at the trinity and concludes it is bogus.
One of his fundamental points was that you could not believe in the trinity without breaking the 2nd commandment. This is something that I was aware of when I was pretty young. It always felt uncomfortable.
Yea, me also. (We should explore this uncomfortable feeling. I suspect we knew trinitarianism goes against the heart of God, logic and language usage and is all about manipulation and control) Trinitarianism breaks the 1C & 2C.
In other threads, I asked our trinitarian friends numerous times what the singular pronoun "me" means in the 1C? While others ignored the question, Soul asked me to explain my question - AS IF it is not crystal clear.
theefaith admitted it did come from the 4th century but claimed it was revelation rather than idolatry. You cannot say the Bible is the Word of God but then 4 centuries later project a man-made idol on the text that totally goes against the Word of God.
Another way I worded this question was: If the plural "our" in GE 1:26 is important, the singular "me" in the 1C is even more important, right? I forget who but think it was theefaith or soul who asked why it was more important. I said the plural is dicta (sense 2) but the singular is a command. They just ignored that point.
And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition.
Mark 7:13 (NLT)
jaybird
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Has there ever been a trin that could explain how it's not breaking this command?
I like you wrangler, straight to the point and you don't sugar coat a thing. Reminds of my mamaw, full blood apache, you didn't mess with her and she wasn't scared to tell you how she "really" feels about you. Lol
Not logically. Providing 'an explanation' does not mean it holds up to scrutiny. Trinitarians rely on mysticism & dualism. 'God is 3 so as to implement my man-is-God thesis but God is 1 when it is convenient, like complying with the 1C.'
Taken
Well-Known Member
We are the created, from the Dust of Gods Created Earth.
We are the Created whom were MADE a living thing By the Power of God.
And the first "Formed"/ "Created and Made" man KIND of thing was called "very good".
In a very short space of time...that mankind of thing...Became "not very good".
And by the SEED of that mankind of thing, more "NOT very good" kind of things were procreated.
Bummer.
Good news. The "NOT very good" kind of things, get an offered opportunity (From God) to become "Restored" to an Acceptable (to God) KIND of thing.
Really good news. An offering, for those "accepting" Restoration "to good"...ARE offered "Gods Seed".
Those Accepting Gods Seed...are accepting Gods Power to Re-Birth a man's natural spirit, to an eternal Living "Reborn Spiritual spirit".
Our responsive Offering...is our Body, crucified with Jesus.
Accepting restoration of our souls to "good".
Accepting Gods Seed to "rebirth our natural spirit", to an everlasting Spiritual spirit.
And the Big Picture is...
Our agreement...body, soul, spirit...all in ONE Agreement to submit to Gods One Counsel.
That is who WE are.
And no doubt...some men elect by Mouth to submit to Gods Counsel...then "by action" Follow "other men as their Counsel"...
(Without Verifying, "those men" Maintain their own Counseling Within the Perimeters of Gods Counsel).
That is where WE find objectional issues and disagreements.
God Bless,
Taken
Dude,
I think you are posting in the wrong thread. This thread is not about this Big Picture as you have defined it. This thread is to STRENGTHEN the case against trinitarianism.
Wrangler
Taken
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jaybird
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Something that's always confusing to me, many in today's Christianity teach that the faith is built on the trinity, some go further saying salvation is based on it. Either way or both you have to admit it's a red flag when there is no teaching in the bible saying this. I get there are proof text they use, but there is not a plain detailed teaching on this. Some even agree saying it wasn't revealed until 400 years later, this raises even more red flags, salvation based on something outside the bible, and why did Jesus come in the first place if salvation wouldn't come for so many years later.
This all sounds very different than what Jesus taught, Jesus said the greatest command was to love the Most High, love you fellow man. And the love your Lord had conditions, Jesus proclaimed the Shema before this command. The Lord that we are to love is "one".
Is three in one, or one in three the same as one? If one is not really one wouldn't someone have explained it so we know the proper meaning of one?
Or maybe one means one like everywhere else out side the trinity world
I’m glad you are invoking maybe, like the other poster invoked ‘can.’ Their entire proposition is speculative, like you can understand it as water or an egg. The other day was St Patrick’s Day. The shamrock is 3.
Then when I introduce things that are >3, they get all indignant. I’m not playing their word game the way they want. An octopus a is 8. The (newly revised) planets in our solar system is 8. And there are 8 days a week.
Anyone who does not see the mystical connection does not have the spirit. (I threw that last one in for you)
jaybird
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The other bizarre aspect to this idolatry is talking about love, love God, love your neighbor, etc. As soon as you suggest rejecting the man-is-God thesis, the vitriol, resorting to threats and insults come out. Even if so, 2 does not a trinity make.
What do you think about my observation that we do not pray TO the Holy Spirit but FOR the Holy Spirit?
What do you think about my observation that we do not pray TO the Holy Spirit but FOR the Holy Spirit?
In today's devotional reading, I read the most inspiring verse to me in all of Scripture, where Jesus states the purpose of his ministry in reading from Isaiah at Luke 4:18.
'The Spirit of Adonai is upon me' is not how we use language to speak of our very own Spirit. Adonai, the LORD God, is not Jesus. Rather, Jesus is Anointed by God. This is the very title for the man! Christ means anointed, anointed by God.
In the amazing verses before that, Satan tempts Jesus with Scripture. To prove he is the Son of God, jump and angels will guide you safely, the Father of Lies says to Jesus in a highly weakened state from extended fasting. How does our master respond? By quoting
16 Do not put Adonai your God to the test
Deuteronomy 6:16 (CJB)
NOTE: Jesus did not say, 'Do not put me to the test as Scripture says.' The glory of Jesus is not that he is God but that he put his trust fully in God. This makes Jesus a perfect role model for us to follow: a weak man or woman who can rely on God no matter what.
18 “The Spirit of Adonai is upon me;
therefore he has anointed me
to announce Good News to the poor;
he has sent me to proclaim freedom for the imprisoned
and renewed sight for the blind,
to release those who have been crushed,
19 to proclaim a year of the favor of Adonai.”
Luke 4:18-19
Complete Jewish Bible
therefore he has anointed me
to announce Good News to the poor;
he has sent me to proclaim freedom for the imprisoned
and renewed sight for the blind,
to release those who have been crushed,
19 to proclaim a year of the favor of Adonai.”
Luke 4:18-19
Complete Jewish Bible
'The Spirit of Adonai is upon me' is not how we use language to speak of our very own Spirit. Adonai, the LORD God, is not Jesus. Rather, Jesus is Anointed by God. This is the very title for the man! Christ means anointed, anointed by God.
In the amazing verses before that, Satan tempts Jesus with Scripture. To prove he is the Son of God, jump and angels will guide you safely, the Father of Lies says to Jesus in a highly weakened state from extended fasting. How does our master respond? By quoting
16 Do not put Adonai your God to the test
Deuteronomy 6:16 (CJB)
NOTE: Jesus did not say, 'Do not put me to the test as Scripture says.' The glory of Jesus is not that he is God but that he put his trust fully in God. This makes Jesus a perfect role model for us to follow: a weak man or woman who can rely on God no matter what.
In another thread
4 Therefore, we were buried with Him through this baptism into death so that just as God the Father, in all His glory, resurrected the Anointed One, we, too, might walk confidently out of the grave into a new life.
Romans 6:4 (Voice)
God resurrected Jesus. This is language confirming Jesus is not God. Also, while some verses in Scripture state 'God the Father' it NEVER says as trinitarians say, 'God the Son.'
4 Therefore, we were buried with Him through this baptism into death so that just as God the Father, in all His glory, resurrected the Anointed One, we, too, might walk confidently out of the grave into a new life.
Romans 6:4 (Voice)
God resurrected Jesus. This is language confirming Jesus is not God. Also, while some verses in Scripture state 'God the Father' it NEVER says as trinitarians say, 'God the Son.'
From today's devotional reading; the words of a demon.
34 “Yaah! What do you want with us, Yeshua from Natzeret? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of God!”
Luke 4:34 (Complete Jewish Bible)
A basic understanding of language usage would not construe this to be God incarnate. X of Y is not Y. Hunter, Son of Joe, is not Joe. Yeshua from Natzeret is not Natzeret. Holy One of God is not God.
34 “Yaah! What do you want with us, Yeshua from Natzeret? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are — the Holy One of God!”
Luke 4:34 (Complete Jewish Bible)
A basic understanding of language usage would not construe this to be God incarnate. X of Y is not Y. Hunter, Son of Joe, is not Joe. Yeshua from Natzeret is not Natzeret. Holy One of God is not God.
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