The Case Against the Trinity

[Wrangler]

"And he said, let us make man in our image and likeness" (Gen. 1:26).

If this is important the singular ‘me’ in the 1C is even more important.

 

[jaybird]

"And he said, let us make man in our image and likeness" (Gen. 1:26). According to your logic, the words "our image and likeness" mean the image and likeness of God and the image and likeness of His angels, and that is what man was made to, but we are only made to God's image. (Gen. 1:27)

who destroyed sodom?

why is it you can not answer this question?

 

[jaybird]

It does not address what I am talking about. Refer back to #568.

who destroyed sodom?

why do you run from this question? every child learns this in sunday school. we all know the story. i know your failure with it. why are you avoiding it like the plague?

do you know the saying stuck between a rock and a hard place? thats you right now.

 

[jaybird]

You said God and angels created man to an image and likeness. Who's image and likeness? You say just God's, but Gen. 1:26 says "our image and likeness," and if the angels created man too, then we are made to the angels image and likeness too, but that contradicts Gen. 1:27 which says man is only made to the image and likeness of God.

who destroyed sodom?

its just a simple question.

 

[Philip James]

the bible says angels destroyed sodom
the bible says the Lord destroyed sodom

who destroyed sodom?

Ooooh! I love riddles :cool:

The Lord of course! Using His angelic instruments!
Glorious!

 

[jaybird]

Refer back to post #573.

why are you scared to answer the question?

 

[jaybird]

Ooooh! I love riddles :cool:

The Lord of course! Using His angelic instruments!
Glorious!

i love riddles to, almost as much as i love watching people try and dig their way out of a great big hole.

 

[jaybird]

Refer back to post #573.

PJ answered for you:

The Lord of course! Using His angelic instruments!
Glorious!

he said the Lord did it, using angels.

do you know what this means?

 

[jaybird]

God did not use angels to create man in His image (Gen 1:26) and that is why the Sodom and Gomorrah comparison does not work.

but the Most High used angels to destroy sodom, and the bible says the Lord destroyed sodom.

when the Most High uses angels, its still the Most High. if the Most High used angels to create man, its still the Most High.
you know this because this is the exact reason why you dodged the question like crazy.

 

[Brakelite]

but the Most High used angels to destroy sodom, and the bible says the Lord destroyed sodom.

when the Most High uses angels, its still the Most High. if the Most High used angels to create man, its still the Most High.
you know this because this is the exact reason why you dodged the question like crazy.

God did not use angels to create anything. The angels celebrated, but we're not a part of the action. God used His Son.
KJV Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 

[jaybird]

God did not use angels to create anything. The angels celebrated, but we're not a part of the action. God used His Son.
KJV Hebrews 1:1-3
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

how do you know angels were not used? why do you think it would have been different than other times angels were used?

 

[Wrangler]

well did I even respond to the mental gymnastics poke?

That's not a personal attack, just an undeniable observation. All trinitarians invoke mental gymnastics to support their false doctrine. Even abusing "Father" and "Son", which by definition, mean not equal in terms of beginning. As John 3:16 says, fathers beget sons.

But this basic observation of life is denied in trinity land via mental gymnastics. The same with your statement that angels have nothing to do with God.

 

[Wrangler]

"Let us make man to our image and likeness" (Gen. 1:26).

It's so funny to watch you stuck on this while simultaneously ignoring Exodus 20:3

Angels have everything to do with God, being God's messengers. This is a legitimate starting point, a solid foundation to build on.

Another is the 1C. Since God put it first, it must be important. If the plural 'our' in Genesis is important, the singular 'me' in the 1C must be even more important.

Because they do not start out with the truth:
1. The entire Bible is written by monotheists (unitarians), who have rejected the trinity concept for 1,000’s of years.

If the plural ‘our’ is important in Genesis, the singular ‘me’ in the 1C must be even more important.

 

[jaybird]

However, God did not use angels to create man in His image and likeness.

"Let us make man to our image and likeness" (Gen. 1:26). If "us" referred to God and angels, then "our image and likeness" referred to the image and likeness of God and the image and likeness of angels. That would mean man was not created to the image and likeness of only God, which contradicts Gen. 1:27 where it says man was created only to God's image and likeness.

No contradiction, when angels are used it's the same as the Lord acting alone as per destruction of sodom

 

[Wrangler]

if the Most High used angels to create man, its still the Most High.
you know this because this is the exact reason why you dodged the question like crazy.

God did not use angels to create anything.

Reading comprehension. Do you not see the word 'if' in jaybird's sentence?

The trinitarian trolls are so desperate not to concede a single point, they rely on deception and one logic fallacy after another. In this case, Appeal to Strawman. Let's pretend jaybird is making a statement that does not go with Scripture, let's pretend he did not use the word 'if' to make the obvious point that when, Elohim (heavenly beings) do things on Earth, they do so at the command of the Most High, the one and only LORD God.

In common language usage when a leader gives a command - Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden - people still give credit to the commander. It is said 'Obama bombed so and so.' They say this even though we all know Obama did not literally bomb anyone. Such figurative use of language is more concise. God gave the order and the angel destroyed the first born males of Egypt. God gave the order and an angel destroyed Sodom and Gomorra.

 

[101G]

Psalm 65 is about the Lord providing and all those that partake in the Lords bounty are blessed and sing praise. I dont think its the pasture and valley but those living there.

But lets say it is talking about a pasture and valley, IMO I dont think it would be a good example as no one would get these confused with living intelligent self aware beings.

The 148 is metaphors, this one, for me, is easy to see as the passage is about praising the Lord from one end of the universe to the other, all things praise Him, from the angels in the heavens to the mountains, hills, fruit trees, creeping things, flying birds, in other words all things big and small praise Him.


The Job passage is not like this, the ones that praised the Lords creation are the Morning stars, sons of the Most High. Thats it. Now if the passage continued with the oceans, birds, trees, fish, etc all singing, that would be a valid point. Or if the passage said stars and only stars and not morning stars and sons of the Most High, that would be a valid point.

Stars will always be stars but when you add morning to make morning star, thats a title to a living being. Benei elohim has never been used to define stars, I dont think either term has been used to define actual stars.

GINOLJC, to all,.
first thanks for the reply, second it's NOT what we think but what God thinks. you and I didn't write the bible, it's our job to find out what God is saying and doing. see all this "IMO", it do not matter, only God's Word matter, and the UNDERSTANDING of it.
this is why God said, "STUDY to show thyself approved unto God, for a workman needs not to be ashame who RIGHTLY DIVIDE his word". no one can rightly divide on any one's opinion. opinions don't count, only God's Holy Word. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." so personal opinions are out... 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" 2 Timothy 3:17 "That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." well if you don't spend some time with God one will never be, A. perfect, or B. throughly furnished unto all good works.

from what I have seen here on many christian boards, people are not spending any time with God the Holy Spirit to learn from him. if someone have a preconceived beliefs, and or a doctrine, and they still, and hear me, and still don't do like those of Berea, who search the scriptures daily, to see if what someone told them, if it was true or not. the only thing I see is what they ... already believe, or their "IMO".

as said personal beliefs, doctrine, and opinions don't count when it comes to the word of God. and the bible is correct, "my people are destroyed for the lack of knowledge". yesterday, I had to just take a break, I just could not believe how people just blatantly don't care about A. READING God Word, or B. try to understand God Word. Ignorance is one thing, but out right insanity is ... yes, "crazy". especially when one have God Word right in front of them ... TO READ. pick up the bible, with, with, with, a dictionary, and let the Holy Ghost teach US, and many don't want to even do that, they are comfortable in their .... OWN beliefs. well I feel sorry for some of them, because when they have their Damascus Road experience, (and they will sonner or later), I just pray that GOD have mercy and that they don't come out badly injured.

spme people think God word, they can play with it any whay they want, well warning, Matthew 12:37 "For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned." that's why I try to be careful as I can when responding to posts, I let the Holy Ghost Guide me. for Matthew 12:37 is nothing to play with. to you J, we suggest you study Job 38, or as a matter of fact the whole book and understand the symbolic language of different metaphor, analogy, and simile. this is only for to help you understand.... ok.

be blessed.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

That's not a personal attack, just an undeniable observation. All trinitarians invoke mental gymnastics to support their false doctrine. Even abusing "Father" and "Son", which by definition, mean not equal in terms of beginning. As John 3:16 says, fathers beget sons.

But this basic observation of life is denied in trinity land via mental gymnastics. The same with your statement that angels have nothing to do with God.

first thanks for the reply, second, undeniable observation? when it's personal, it's an attack. if as you say is an undeniable observation, then acttack with scripture, hence, 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

so in the future, if you make an undeniable observation, instead of being personal, be like God, speak his Word, for this is what it is for, "reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:". there is no need for any, "mental gymnastics", statements, Just speak God's Holy Word. so you, me, and no one would have to inject ourselves... "personally" into any discussion .... YIKES!.

now as for any trinitarian, or anyone else, especially you and me. do what 2 Timothy 3:16 states, and all of us get out the way of God , because his Word fight all battles. and if some didn't get, let God, his (Word), do to the talking, and we shut our Mouths. BINGO. then this board will be a better place.
AMEN,

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Wrangler]

when it's personal, it's an attack. if as you say is an undeniable observation

Not accepting your foolishness. Mental gymnastics is not a personal attack. I am attacking your argument, your thought process, your playing word games.

I am not attacking you.

 

[Wrangler]

then acttack with scripture

I have attacked with scripture many times. However, the flaw in your language has many fronts and I am addressing each angle of ERROR. This includes:

• Logic
• Language Usage
• Definitions
• Mysticism/Dualism
• Denial Scripture is written by anti-trinitarians.

‘For us, there is one God, the Father’
1 Corinthians 8:6

NOTE: The verse above does not say one trinitarian God who is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved. Please construct a stronger anti-trinitarian statement than 1 Corinthians 8:6. I ask because I cannot think of one.

 

[101G]

Mental gymnastics is not a personal attack. I am attacking your argument, your thought process, your playing word games.

well then, used scripture, "ONLY", and not anything personal, nor even attack.. just say what the scriptures, states.

now if you don't want to used scriptures, then as I said, this is what facebook and twitter is for. here we perfer to discuss the word of God, thanks in advance

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"