Discerning : The Water Cults

[Eternally Grateful]

You think that unbelievers would be baptized?

Jesus didn't.

You need to get in sync with Him.

Yet it happens all the time.

not everyone who gets baptized is saved.

 

[Pearl]

Yet it happens all the time.

not everyone who gets baptized is saved.

i totally agree - specially babies.

 

[mailmandan]

I see, so the 120 and Peter were not added to the church as per this?....

41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Those who gladly received his word through repentance (belief/faith implied or assumed) were "afterwards baptized." Who said that water baptism was the cause of these three thousand souls being added to the Lord?

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.
Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism?

 

[mailmandan]

Yet it happens all the time.

not everyone who gets baptized is saved.

It does happen all the time. I know multiple people who today are genuine believers yet have admitted to receiving water baptism years prior when they were not yet a genuine believer. Many of them attended churches that taught salvation by works. They revealed that they were water baptized because they saw it as another step in a series of steps that were all necessary for salvation. Another check off their check list of works salvation. Been there, done that prior to my conversion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It does happen all the time. I know multiple people who today are genuine believers yet have admitted to receiving water baptism years prior when they were not yet a genuine believer. Many of them attended churches that taught salvation by works. They revealed that they were water baptized because they saw it as another step in a series of steps that were all necessary for salvation. Another check off their check list of works salvation. Been there, done that prior to my conversion.

It’s sad that Satan has convinced many in the NT to make the same mistake the jews did I. The OT and take a ritual that represented being cleansed (circumcision/baptism) and turned it int9 a means of eternal salvation.

Just shows how low we humans are that we can be convinced of these things

 

[justbyfaith]

@Behold
@justbyfaith
@Truther
@Pearl

Hello there,

Please don't take this personally, for it is not intended so.

I hear people talking about Baptism, and it's purpose, with little recourse to what the Scriptures actually have to say about it. Also no one ever seems to take into consideration what is said in Ephesians 4, in the sevenfold unity of the Spirit, that we are called upon to 'keep', in which there is only ONE baptism.

The Baptism of John, was the baptism of repentance, and the medium used was water, this he preached to the People of Israel. John himself tells us why he came baptising with water in John 1:31,

'And I knew Him (the Christ) not:
but that He should be made manifest to Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.'​

* He also told of another form of baptism which was to come in Matthew 3:11:-

'I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance:
but He that cometh after me is mightier than I,
Whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost,
and with fire: ... ' ​

* During the Acts period there were two baptisms running together, baptism with water and baptism with the Holy Spirit. See Acts 19:5.

* Which of the two baptisms (or is it three?) of Matthew 3:11 (quoted above) is the 'ONE baptism' of Ephesians 4, - [ written at the end of the Acts period following the departure of Israel into unbelief] - that we are to 'keep' as part of the sevenfold unity of the Spirit recorded there? Or is it another altogether, one which the flesh has no part in? In which it cannot boast.

* I believe the answer to this question is vital for a true understanding of what is God's will for the Church at this present time in relation to this subject, and one which we neglect to our own detriment.

* I do hope you will address this.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

All three baptisms are the one baptism...it is a three-in-one propagation, much like the Trinity.

Yet it happens all the time.

not everyone who gets baptized is saved.

That depends on whether they are confessing Christ before men in their baptism or not.

If they are, then it definitely saves them (Christ will confess them before the Father and the angels as the result, Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

In cases where it is not the decision of the person to be baptized (such as with infant baptisms), it is less of a confession and more of wishful thinking on the part of the parents.

 

[friend of]

The water baptism for salvation thing is similar to the recieving of the Holy Spirit by placing hands on the person thing. Both limit God in that God now requires man to perform an act in order to accomplish His will. God is in no way so restrained.

 

[charity]

All three baptisms are the one baptism...it is a three-in-one propagation, much like the Trinity.

Hi there @justbyfaith,

I can't believe I am reading this!! You can't be serious. How do you justify that?

 

[justbyfaith]

Peter and the 120 were not water baptized, and they still "spoke with tongues " and were born again, = Acts chapter 2.

So, the water cult doctrine of devils, that says that WATER Baptism causes "the infilling of the spirit" and that we are "born again by water", didn't <fify> happen to Peter or the 120.

The 120 were in fact baptized at the juncture of John 4:1-2.

Such people would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water.

Life-giving water...

Rev 22:17, And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

I appreciate that you are a Junior Catholic in training...

My doctrine is not based in Catholicism but rather in my leanings toward Oneness Pentecostalism.

Yet just yesterday you are going to "pray for you Behold", because you decided that because i dont trust in water, i must not be saved.

No, I was going to pray for you because of the way you were treating me.

(see Matthew 5:44-45).

So, as i said, everytime you are caught inside your ridiculous self saving by abiding, or now its, by water, you come the next day and pretend you never said any of it, and you are trying to agree with me.

There is no inconsistency in what I am saying. You are having the same problem that some people have in reading the Bible. They look for contradictions...and in claiming that there are contradictions therein are completely oblivious to the fact that there are reconciliations to those apparent contradictions that they find.

Its pathetic to watch you, and how you behave on a Christian fourm.
You are like the wind.......you blow east then you blow west, never knowing how you will blow next.

Thank you for the compliment...I believe that you are telling me that I am behaving like one who is born again of the Holy Spriit.

For it is written,

Jhn 3:8, The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

What is your fruit, justbyfaith?
You talk about being a teacher. You talk about being a "forum pastor", and YET you do not THREAD.

First of all, I do not go around in every post talking about how I am a teacher. I claimed that at one point and have said that I may have been having a break with my mental illness in that claim. My threads are a little bit buried but when I get around to it I will bring them to the forefront. I bring them up from time to time so that new people can read the threads.

But I do not post multitudes of threads like you do, that is true; because I consider that those threads will be buried in time unless I bump them up. So I have posted a few threads and I bump them up from time to time by adding to them.

So, if you are saying that I do not teach on these forums you are sadly mistaken.

I let my threads become permanent fixtures in due time by bringing them to the forefront from time to time so that the teachings that I gave before can be perused by new people and also, a person can be edified by reading them second and third times.

I do this about once every 3-4 weeks; so that my threads can usually be found on page 2, 3, 4, or 5 of the Theology Forum.

Also, my role as teacher / pastor has to do with the call to be a watchman on these forums; and this tends to take up a majority of my time so that I do not have the time to produce a multitude of new threads.

I also want to make it clear that a major portion of my day is spent reading my Bible according to the Bible reading plan that I have set forth in the following thread:

An excellent Bible reading plan.

You sit there and wait for me to Post another Thread, as ive now posted about 200, and you are usually the 1st one to show up, and rant your nonsense.

I normally bring scripture into the situation that refutes your false doctrine. I would not call holy scripture "nonsense".

 

[justbyfaith]

Hi there @justbyfaith,

I can't believe I am reading this!! You can't be serious. How do you justify that?

All three are identified as baptism...but there is only one baptism.

 

[friend of]

All three are identified as baptism...but there is only one baptism.

Theres baptism by the spirit by fire. Baptism by water, a ritual. What's the 3rd one?

 

[justbyfaith]

Theres baptism by the spirit by fire. Baptism by water, a ritual. What's the 3rd one?

1) water, 2) Spirit 3) fire.

These three are one (Ephesians 4:5).

 

[Truther]

@Truther I don't understand what you are saying.
Do you mean that to repent is to die to self?
And what does your second sentence mean?

The second part(water baptism) is our burial with Christ.

We cannot be in Christ unless we are buried with Christ.

Also, we cannot be baptized(buried) legally before God unless we are dead(repented).

Folks that get baptized and walk away from God the next day were never dead. They were buried alive(per unrepentance).

 

[Truther]

Did you not understand what I explained to you in post number 81?

Sure.

You said perfect truth, not simple belief is the qualifier for baptism.

Fact is, most of you teach phony doctrines and baptize innocent believers before they are exposed to those secret doctrines(tithing etc).

You are disqualified too.

The truth is, Jesus he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...that's it.

It does not matter if they think Alfred E. Newman is a prophet at that point, but will eventually figure out the truth if they are honest with God and themselves.

 

[Truther]

Yet it happens all the time.

not everyone who gets baptized is saved.

They are not unbelievers, but UNREPENTED. Think about it. Nobody but the RCC is forcing folks to be baptized(babies).

 

[mailmandan]

Sure.

You said perfect truth, not simple belief is the qualifier for baptism.

Fact is, most of you teach phony doctrines and baptize innocent believers before they are exposed to those secret doctrines(tithing etc).

You are disqualified too.

The truth is, Jesus he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...that's it.

It does not matter if they think Alfred E. Newman is a prophet at that point, but will eventually figure out the truth if they are honest with God and themselves.

You didn’t understand what I explained and you also continue to trust in “water and works” for salvation instead of Jesus Christ alone. Also go back and read post #82.

 

[Truther]

Those who gladly received his word through repentance (belief/faith implied or assumed) were "afterwards baptized." Who said that water baptism was the cause of these three thousand souls being added to the Lord?

Acts 4:4 - However, many of those who heard the word believed; and the number of the men came to be about five thousand.
Acts 5:14 - And believers were increasingly added to the Lord, multitudes of both men and women. *What happened to baptism?

Peter repented of it?

He said it will never happen again?

Swaggart etc, corrected him?

 

[friend of]

1) water, 2) Spirit 3) fire.

These three are one (Ephesians 4:5).

Pretty sure 2 and 3 are the same.

 

[Truther]

You didn’t understand what I explained and you also continue to trust in “water and works” for salvation instead of Jesus Christ alone. Also go back and read post #82.

How can you separate Christ from our water baptism?

The O.T. priest washed at the brazen laver.

To fulfill this artifact, Jesus was baptized.

Likewise, we must be baptized, to be buried with Him.

God told the priest, "wash at the laver that ye die not". It could not be skipped.

Anti baptimalist's would make lousy O.T. priests as they would skip this process and get burnt up by God at the Ark.


So, to recap....

Priest kills the sacrifice...Jesus dies...we die(repentance).

Priest washes at the laver...Jesus baptized...we are baptized.

Priest enters the Holy of Holies...Jesus rent the vail....we enter the Holy of Holies via the Holy Ghost baptism.

Now you know what it means to follow Jesus!

 

[friend of]

Priest enters the Holy of Holies...Jesus rent the vail....we enter the Holy of Holies via the Holy Ghost baptism.

If we have the Holy Spirit, what need have we to be dunked in water?