BarneyFife
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Well, some people emphasize faith over grace, but grace is practically everything. I probably should have kept that remark to myself. Mull it over and study it if you want. :)
Who founded your church?
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If grace can give merit to faith why not to works, after all we are judged by our works
Romans 2:6
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
Romans 2:6
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!
Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ!
Galatians 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love!
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
Then Once saved always saved!
1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
BreadOfLife
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WRONG.
Faith is NOT simply "believing."
If that's all you have - then you're NO better off than the demons (James 2:19) who do the same.
True Faith WORKS through Love (Gal 5:6. 1 Cor. 13:1-13). Only the nes that DO the will of the Father will be saved (Matt. 7:21).
If you count on your OWN works, then you have nothing. True believers count on the works that were prepared FOR them by God in advance as an essential element of thei faith (Eph. 2:10).
BreadOfLife
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First of all - there is not ONE SINGLE description of a full immersion Baptism in the NT. I'm NOT saying that this wasn't the norm - but is simply is NOT described.
The 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles), written while most of them were STILL alive (60-70 AD) allows for BOTH immersion AND pouring 3 times over the head.
Did you ever wonder how 3000 people were Baptized in the city of Jerusalem on Pentecost? You don't actually believe that they were allowed to use the Temple pools for Christian Baptism - during a JEWISH festival, do you?
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Do you really? Schools, hospitals , the dignity of the individual, Gospel taken to the ends of the Earth...
Monuments to the Glory of God... What monuments to God's glory has America built?
Peace be with you!
Wow, just when I was beginning to think that you were rather astute in historical matters. The Cistercian monks were kidnapped by Algerian terrorists during the civil war, and they were held for ransom in exchange for a GIA member. They were killed strictly for political reasons, never once were they asked to recant their faith.
Shame on you!
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Romans 8:3
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,
Romans 9:16
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
Galatians 5:2
Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Galatians 5:4
Verse Concepts
You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Acts 13:39
Verse Concepts
and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Romans 3:20-30
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;read more.
Romans 4:1-7
What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”read more.
Romans 9:31-32
but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.
Galatians 2:16
nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
Galatians 3:10-12
For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.” Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, “The righteous man shall live by faith.” However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, “He who practices them shall live by them.”
Galatians 3:21
Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.
Galatians 4:9-11
But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.
Galatians 5:6
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Galatians 6:1
For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation.
Philippians 3:3-9
for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, although I myself might have confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else has a mind to put confidence in the flesh, I far more: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee;read more.
Colossians 2:20-23
If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as, “Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!” (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?read more.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
Titus 3:4-5
But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,
Hebrews 4:3-10
For we who have believed enter that rest, just as He has said,
“As I swore in My wrath,
They shall not enter My rest,”
although His works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has said somewhere concerning the seventh day: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this passage, “They shall not enter My rest.”read more.
Hebrews 6:1-2
Therefore leaving the elementary teaching about the Christ, let us press on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of instruction about washings and laying on of hands, and the resurrection of the dead and eternal judgment.
James 2:10-11
For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not commit murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.
Romans 3:20
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Luke 18:9-14
And He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and was praying this to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector.read more.
Matthew 5:20
Verse Concepts
“For I say to you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
Psalm 49:7-8
No man can by any means redeem his brother
Or give to God a ransom for him—
For the redemption of his soul is costly,
And he should cease trying forever—
Psalm 127:1-2
A Song of Ascents, of Solomon.
Unless the Lord builds the house,
They labor in vain who build it;
Unless the Lord guards the city,
The watchman keeps awake in vain.
It is vain for you to rise up early,
To retire late,
To eat the bread of painful labors;
For He gives to His beloved even in his sleep.
Isaiah 64:6
For all of us have become like one who is unclean,
And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;
And all of us wither like a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.
"For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast."
Galatians 2:21
I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
Btw, yes all true faith will produce works. But no work contributes anything to salvation, rather it's a result of salvation.
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. James 1:27
No country has produced more missionaries and more translations of the bible and distributed them to more people around the World than the Christians in America. The Catholic church Robs the laity of their wealth and prosperity to build buildings that take 100's of years to construct to show their grandiousity to the world. How many Hungry children could have been fed by the money spent on the treasures of the Vatican to help the poor, to care for the fatherless, to help those in affliction that was spent on the Sagrada Familia for example? Or the Vatican itself? The Hospitals, and the schools are a pittance compared to these "monuments" to men, not to God.
And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. (Revelation 17:4-6)
What religion is associated with the colors scarlet and Purple? Has a Golden cup in their hand? Has Pearl necklaces? Has the blood of saints in their history? Is the mother of Harlots?
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... Did you ever ask, why John "wondered with great admiration?"
rev-17-mystery600.jpg (600×450) (wp.com)
Philip James
Well-Known Member
Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
Philip James
Well-Known Member
The Catholic Church is the most charitable organization in the world!
That does not preclude us from honouring God with some of His bounty to us.
That you see our buildings and monuments, our reverence for Christ and His Church as some kind of self aggrandizement speaks to the state of your own heart...
Who was it that complained about the expensive oil/perfume used to annoint Jesus?
Equating the Cup of Salvation with the cup of abominations is the worst sort of sacrilage.
Do you not think that a much worse punishment is due the one who has contempt for the Son of God, considers unclean the covenant-blood by which he was consecrated, and insults the spirit of grace?
It is a lie, straight from the pits of hell.. I urge you to abandon this most egregious position and open your eyes!
Lord, have mercy!
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
My Position is an observation of facts as was indicated by the image posted. No Other religion fits the description as well. The Question for you is has your church fallen into such apostacy? I am not speaking of the people but the leadership? Right down to the pearls on the Popes necklace, this description is very accurate to the imagery of the RCC.
If You continue reading This passage, and this is speaking of the RCC, there is a warning to the Catholic believers as to the eventual demise of the harlot at the hands of the beast she rides and the ten Kings that rule with the beast. A Beast is human government, no other church is keen on ruling with the government like the RCC as the church militant But it ends up turning on them. Not to mention the warning In Revelation 18:4.
I Say this with a heart of warning to you, and any who will listen, not with the heart of Judas, and anti-Catholicism. I am anti-Nicolaitanism, which is what I believe the leadership of many churches are falling into Catholic and protestant alike.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
The gospel was already at the end of the earth before Catholic missionaries arrived and persecuted the Christians they found there.
BreadOfLife
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The Cistercian monks who were beheaded were taken hostage SOLELY because they were Christians by one of the most militant Islamist movements at the time (Groupe Islamique Armé/GIA).
Funny how you completely ignored all of the other examples I presented of ascetics martyred for their faith - such as . . .
- The Carthhusian monks who were slaughtered for their faith by the Ottoman invaders near Vienna in 1529.
- The FORTY monks in the London charterhouse who were drawn and quartered ALIVE by Protestant butchers during the English Reformation in 1537.
- The 800 priests and monks that were rounded up and persecuted during the French Revolution for their faith- ALL of whom died by 1794 in captivity because of the inhumane conditions?
ALL examples of people living the ascetic life - and DYING for theyr faith in maryrdom.
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