SinSinSin

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you really going to hedge your bets on your own works and be judged by the law instead of resting in the finished work of Jesus

I repented and believed the gospel years ago. Any works offered before repenting would have been filthy rags.

But now that I am saved, I do these works:

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work

Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God

Once Saved Always Saved does not edify to these works; in fact, OSAS motives one to do no works at all and leaves one vulnerable to the lusts of the flesh which so easily besets us.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

So you presumptuously assume that a worker of iniquity is one who only denies the scripture passages later assigned the chapter and verse numbers of 15:1-4 in 1 Corinthians?

And you also believe that the willful sin mentioned in Hebrews 10:26 only applies to those who return to Judaism.

Are you really going to hedge your bets on these very flawed assumptions knowing what the consequences of being wrong might be?

Especially when the scriptures do not say these things?

Yes
No
Yes
No. Next?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I repented and believed the gospel years ago. Any works offered before repenting would have been filthy rags.

But now that I am saved, I do these works:

1 Corinthians 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

2 Corinthians 9:8 And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work

Colossians 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God

Once Saved Always Saved does not edify to these works; in fact, OSAS motives one to do no works at all and leaves one vulnerable to the lusts of the flesh with so easily besets us.

Sez you....Not the Bible.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Sez you....Not the Bible.

The Bible says:

Galatians 2:16 KJVS
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I am not seeking to be justified by the works of the law. I have been justified by faith in the blood of Christ.

However, now I am minded to walk worthy of the gospel:

Ephesians 4:1 KJVS
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

2 Thessalonians 1:11 KJVS
[11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling

The question is:

Are you also working to be counted worthy of God’s calling?

 

[justbyfaith]

Just answer this....yes or no please....
At penny falls under the table...... I reach under the table to get it.....I got up too quickly and bumped my head very hard.....In my shock and pain I yelled out the “ F- Bomb”..... more that just once! I died suddenly of a heart attack Before I had the “ Luck” to Repent in time..I had been a Believer who had Rested in the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4 for 50 years....will I go to Hell when I die?
Have the Courage Of your Convictions—- please give me a simple yes or no.thanks.

There is no yes or no answer to such a question. I will say that the Lord will be your judge and not I.

I do believe that if a believer has not been circumcised spiritually, that righteousness is still imputed to him (Romans 2:28-29, Romans 4:11)...

So that would make ithe answer "no"....you would not go to hell..

On the other hand, those who commit sin are of the devil (1 John 3:8) and have not been born of God (1 John 3:9)...

And that would make the answer a "yes"...you would go to hell.

Where I do not have the perfect answer I will leave it up to the Lord.

As for you, I think that you would be in folly to think that it is alright for you to let out the F-bomb at any given moment. I would say that you should not take any chances on this; but that you should cultivate the fruit of temperance early so that if such an occasion ever did arise, you would not let out an F-bomb but would instead praise the Lord for the fellowship of His sufferings (Philippians 3:10).

For the Bible tells us what we ought to do..."In everything give thanks." (1 Thessalonians 5:18).

A key for your understanding might be in Romans 4:20-22; where it speaks of justification for the one who, like Abraham, does not waver at the promise of the Lord in unbelief but gives all glory to Him and believes that what He has promised He is able also to perform.

There are certain promises in holy scripture that I believe this applies to...such as 1 Thessalonians 5:22-23 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 john 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6, Colossians 2:11.

I hope that you will look up each one of these and see that the doctrine of entire sanctification is biblical and that if you believe that God is able to perform these promises, you are justified even as Abraham according to Romans 4:20-22. And that this is what the beginning of Romans 4 is also referring to.

However, I will say this....that if you have not yet obtained that second benefit, righteousness is still imputed to you if you believe that the Lord is able to do it in you.

And therefore if you are desiring to be sanctified wholly and are placing your hope in the Lord for that to take place in your life, you will not go to hell in such a situation even though you did let out the F-bomb.

But if you have spurned God's promise and have entered into unbelief concerning it....I do not see you as going to heaven if you committed such a sin on your dying day.

Because as you have said, unbelief is the thing that places people in hell and not sin...and therefore I believe that the Lord will judge you by your own words.

You have asked a tough question and I am not certain that I have answered it adequately enough...but I hope that it is enough for the "newbie" to see beyond anything that might be wrong about my answer.

I would even ask the "newbie" to take my answer with a grain of salt....because I am not perfectly confident that I have answered with everything in the most correct way. But I have answered to the best of my ability considering that you have asked a hard question.

And maybe you will even be able to correct me if I am wrong (please use holy scripture).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

You have taken ONE verse from the Bible and everything else revolves around that....
Personally, if I were forced to choose, I would have gone with John3:16 or 1Cor 15:1-4..... verses that give All Of the Glory to Jesus instead of myself, but that’s just me....
If you really “ love your neighbor as yourself “...... the next time that you “ love yourself”, enough to go out and buy a new shirt or a new car .....make sure that you buy two of each so that you can give one time the Neighbor That you “ love” so much.....you are a hypocrite and you don’t even see it....
Why not wake up , swallow your pride and admit you can't obey the teachings of Jesus any more than you can keep 613 Commandments—— you were NEVER intended to .God,s Way is GRACE —- not Performance . If “loving you neighbor as yourself “ could save anybody....Jesus died for Nothing!
Paul says that God will be asking us , come Judgement Day, what we did with the Gospel , and that Gospel is all about what God did for is —- not what we did for Him
You are going to show up on Judgement Day like a guy presenting a pie to win the “ Prize”,when the contest all along was about “ Cakes!”..... you never understood the criteria for that “ contest “ and you lost .You don’t understand the criteria for Salvation .....Love your neighbors until the cows come home...it’s a great thing to do.....it just won’t SAVE you! It’s about HIM.....NOT you!
“It is by Grace that you are Saved, through Faith” .......NOT “ by loving you neighbor “ you are Saved Through Faith .....you really need to study Romans , Galatians and Ephesians ....you are in Serious jeopardy and you don’t realize it.....

 

[Gideons300]

Close! ......but no cigar....

It would seem from the following verse and your take on it that you think the gospel is...

1. Repent
2. Believe
but no number 3. Is that correct? Endurance is not necessary, correct?

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.....

Colossians 1:21-22

And this is where the OSAS teaching plants its flag of truth. Case closed. If we died when Christ died, and He has reconciled us to God and not only that but has also presented us to God as holy, unblameable and unreprovable in His sight, that pretty well sums it up, correct? There is but one problem.... the next verse. How I pray we read it and accept what it says, for this is most definitely a part of the gospel.

.... If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

Colossians 1:23

Guys, I understand why OSAS is so appealing. We live in fleshly bodies and are weak, and in moments of weakness we can slip into sin. To know our names are still written in the Lamb's book of life regardless of our actions brings us great assurance. And God wants us to be assured, for unless we are assured, rest is impossible.

But our assurance cannot come from a doctrine, or a one time prayer. It must come from God Himself, and the assurance He wants for us can only come if there is a way to remain obedient.

So whst can we do? We disobey at times. Self still overrules at times. And that guys, is the truth God shared with me 14 years ago now. He can.... and He WILL cause us to obey Him and all we have to do is to believe.... reckon.... that the old us.... self.... does not need to be tied up or killed. It IS dead.

more to come....

blessings to all,

Gideon

 

[justbyfaith]

Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself

You have taken ONE verse from the Bible and everything else revolves around that....
Personally, if I were forced to choose, I would have gone with John3:16 or 1Cor 15:1-4..... verses that give All Of the Glory to Jesus instead of myself, but that’s just me....
If you really “ love your neighbor as yourself “...... the next time that you “ love yourself”, enough to go out and buy a new shirt or a new car .....make sure that you buy two of each so that you can give one time the Neighbor That you “ love” so much.....you are a hypocrite and you don’t even see it....
Why not wake up , swallow your pride and admit you can't obey the teachings of Jesus any more than you can keep 613 Commandments—— you were NEVER intended to .God,s Way is GRACE —- not Performance . If “loving you neighbor as yourself “ could save anybody....Jesus died for Nothing!
Paul says that God will be asking us , come Judgement Day, what we did with the Gospel , and that Gospel is all about what God did for is —- not what we did for Him
You are going to show up on Judgement Day like a guy presenting a pie to win the “ Prize”,when the contest all along was about “ Cakes!”..... you never understood the criteria for that “ contest “ and you lost .You don’t understand the criteria for Salvation .....Love your neighbors until the cows come home...it’s a great thing to do.....it just won’t SAVE you! It’s about HIM.....NOT you!
“It is by Grace that you are Saved, through Faith” .......NOT “ by loving you neighbor “ you are Saved Through Faith .....you really need to study Romans , Galatians and Ephesians ....you are in Serious jeopardy and you don’t realize it.....

I'm not sure if you were talking to me there...

But I agree with you and would say that according to Galatians 3:21 that if the law could impart life, surely righteousness would have been by the law.

But it doesn't impart life.

And therefore we receive life when we place our faith in Jesus and what He did for us on the Cross...and when we abide in Him as a branch in the vine...which consists of receiving nourishment from the vine as you are connected to Jesus and results in you not sinning for as long as you abide (1 John 3:6)...and it is also possible to abide in Him for evermore (1 John 2:17)...it also consists of keeping in memory the thing which was spoken in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4...

We receive life through the Holy Ghost who sheds abroad His love in our hearts (Romans 5:5)...this is by the grace of God.

If you have been forgiven much then you love much (Luke 7:36-50)...and this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18); it is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within you (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

 

[BloodBought 1953]

The Bible says:

Galatians 2:16 KJVS
[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

I am not seeking to be justified by the works of the law. I have been justified by faith in the blood of Christ.

However, now I am minded to walk worthy of the gospel:

Ephesians 4:1 KJVS
[1] I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called

2 Thessalonians 1:11 KJVS
[11] Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling

The question is:

Are you also working to be counted worthy of God’s calling?

Nobody will ever be Worthy. I am “MADE” Worthy by my Total Faith in the Blood Of The Lamb.....Plus NOTHING.
“ Working” is the Opposite Of RESTING ......Salvation is GIVEN to “ He that Worketh Not!

God will not Save anybody that is “ Trying “ to get Saved.....He will Save ALL that are “ Trusting” to be Saved.....
“ The man who finds life will find it by Trusting God”....

 

[justbyfaith]

I'm actually working hard tonight...my back hurts....it is a work of faith and a labour of love.

And of course I am also "resting in His grace"...because I am not working or labouring for myself but for others...and that makes all the diiference.

That being said, I think that I will call it a night...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Ronald,

You are focusing on frivolous matters regarding the law (literally). God wants us to focus on the weightier matters of the law:

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith

The law is spiritual. And when we walk in the Spirit we do those things contained in the law naturally because we received all things that pertain to life and godliness through the Spirit (2 Peter 1:3).

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual...

You are asking me questions concerning carnal things of the law, not spiritual.

This may be why the things I say to you with scripture are foolishness to you.

1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

As far as I can tell you cannot discern between the carnal and spiritual aspects of the law.

So keeping the festivals were carnal when God commanded them?

I think you are too puffed up and hung up on a phony spiritualness.

Concerning your last statement, my fear is you cannot discern past the end of your nose.

YOu say the law is spiritual 2Peter 1:3 and when we walk in the spirit we do things contained in teh law naturally. I am not talking about judgment mercy and faith. We haven't even gone that far yet.

I am simply asking you, when you walk in the spirit do you naturally abstain from certain foods, mixing fabrics, pay tithes etc. these are things contained in the law, so do you naturally do them when you are in the spirit?

It is a simple question. YOu say you obey teh law, so I am asking about your obedience to specific things in GODS LAW. All your subtle ad-hominems and open bearing false witness against a brother cannot answer that question for you.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Explain better. I'm curious.

REad my post to Miciah-Imla. It is not a mysterious question or one couched in symbolism. It is a straight forward question that does not require complicated answers unless one is trying to hide something.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Can you reference scripture on this please?

I’m not indifferent; I’m exercising discernment in spiritual matters. Comparing spiritual with spiritual.

1 Corinthians 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

@Ronald Nolette seems to be comparing carnal things with spiritual things concerning the law.

Wow such holiness. such spiritual excellence! Such grand Holy Spirit discernment! Bull! Such pride, such arrogance and such puffed up flesh!
1. You said you obey the law.
2. Keeping the feasts is part of teh law
3. Abstaining from pork is part of the law!
4. Yet you refuse to answer whether yo observe these parts of the law when you trumpet how spiritual you are and obey the law!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Christ did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it—Matthew 5:17-18. Some parts are completely upheld and unbroken by Christ so that nothing remains for me to literally do regarding them (punishments for sin, various sacrifices, "foods or clothing, or whatever other like frivolous things"—see his quote above). And so those laws are 'kept' by me through my faith in Christ. The parts that matter, summarized in "love your neighbor as yourself", get upheld and not broken by us when we walk according to the Spirit. When we walk according to the Spirit the whole law is 'kept' by the believer. I usually don't use the word 'kept', but rather the word Paul uses—"upheld". The law is upheld by faith in Christ, not destroyed and cast down and trampled on, as most in the church think.

And how do you know you have figured out which ones you no longer have to do and which ones you don't? Good guess work? Relying on someone to tell you? How did they figure it out!

I no my answer to the entire 613 commands of the Mosaic Law, but which parts of the Mosaic Law do you still keep as part of teh Mosaic Law?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes or no won't do and you know it. Stop baiting me.

So then write what you need to write. If it is more than yes or no- then write what you believe.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I think it means what the Bible says it means.

Which is what? YOu do not seem very apt to answer questions. And this is a discussion forum based on answering questions.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And how do you know you have figured out which ones you no longer have to do and which ones you don't? Good guess work? Relying on someone to tell you? How did they figure it out!

In general, the ones I literally keep are the ones that represent "love your neighbor as yourself".

I no my answer to the entire 613 commands of the Mosaic Law, but which parts of the Mosaic Law do you still keep as part of teh Mosaic Law?

Do not lie, do not steal, do not covet anything of your neighbor's—including their spouse, don't show favoritism, take care of widows and orphans, don't hold grudges......

Laws like 'eye for eye', be circumcised, enter into Sabbath rest, etc. they are already fulfilled by the work of Christ when we believe in Christ so no further action needs to be taken regarding those. And so they can be 'laid aside'. Not destroyed and broken. Christ did not come to do that. They just aren't needed anymore. For example, Christ has already accomplished for the believer what animal sacrifice sought to do. So why do we have to do try to accomplish something through animal sacrifice which Christ has already done through his work on the cross?

But you can see how all that does not apply to 'love your neighbor as yourself (do not steal, do not lie, etc.). Christ did not do those for us. That is a remaining debt of law that we fulfill, through the new way of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

when you walk in the spirit do you naturally abstain from certain foods, mixing fabrics, pay tithes etc. these are things contained in the law, so do you naturally do them when you are in the spirit?

Paul is the one who said that love is the fulfilling of the law, and and that all the commandments are kept this way (Romans 13:10).

And Jesus said:

Matthew 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

I believe Paul and Jesus on what the law is, not you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

REad my post to Miciah-Imla. It is not a mysterious question or one couched in symbolism. It is a straight forward question that does not require complicated answers unless one is trying to hide something.

I thought he gave a good answer. That made me wonder how it wasn't lining up with what you asked. I'm not being snarky. That's my honest, polite assessment.

 

[ChristisGod]

I don’t think your analyses is quite right . The typical poor student of God’s Word conjures up a Hodge - Podge Of Religious Mush and THINKS it’s the Gospel

There is only ONE specific Gospel,that saves.....it is Found In 1cor15:1-4......its Paul’s Gospel. Yes, I said that it is PAUL’S Gospel .....Believe it ....don’t “Pervert” it by Adding to it.....REST in it for your Salvation Or God will declare you guilty of Disobedience and UNbelief. Serious stuff, agreed?
Paul said everybody’s Eternal Fate, going to Heaven or Hell will be determined by what you did with “ HIS” Gospel ..... I suggest you have a good answer for God’s inquiry ! God ain’t gonna ask if your “ repentance record” is up to date.God won’t ask about your Pitiful Performance. He WILL ask, “ What did you do with the Gospel? . You heard it here first! Lol......

Paul makes it clear its his gospel or the highway in Galatians 1. No ifs ands or buts about that fact. And you are right as he defines the one gospel that saves in 1 Corinthians 15. And if its denied or twisted one is eternally accursed as per Galatians 1. I posted a thread a while back on the One Gospel.

hope this helps !!!