If Jesus was the Son of God before he became man...

[101G]

You are not even doing a good job at twisting the scriptures....Christ was all man and all God.
And you need to be honest with the folks on this forum.
If you want to challenge the Deity of Christ, you need to be honest.
If you want to challenge the fact that Yeshua was the physical and spiritual Son of God, you need to be honest and forthright.
This all reeks of Jehovah Wittiness who printed a bible to deny the Deity of the Son of God, you need to be honest and forthright.

so we can take this as you have no scripture support as to what you said?... just what I thought. all talk but no scripture. oh well since it is getting late on my end, I'll post the rest of your question since you have nothing to offer.

2. Yahweh was adamant that there was only one God and He was it and there was no one like Him.
Philippians 2:6 proves that Jesus is God, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" for in Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." IT'S THE SAME PERSON.


3. There is no discussion of the three aspects of Yahweh in the OT.
NO, there is, for this is what prophecy is all about in the OT, listen,1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
so the discussion was made. But it was only one in the OT, who had the discussion of what to come…. yes, one and only one, , Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:", Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
this is what prophecy is all about, that’s the discussion…



4. Yahweh does not discuss things that Him and His Son would be doing, or had done in the past.

wHO TOLD YOU THAT lie?, God will tell his business and no one can do anything about it, nor stop it… (smile)… LOL, LOL, LOL. listen up,

Isaiah 45:19 "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right."
Isaiah 45:20 "Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save."
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."


Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,"
Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"


Isaiah 48:3 "I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass."
Isaiah 48:4 "Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;"
Isaiah 48:5 "I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them."
Isaiah 48:6 "Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them."
Isaiah 48:7 "They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them."
Isaiah 48:8 "Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb."


Isaiah 57:12 "I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee."
question, "Where is his righteousness?" In his Son, he himself, diversified in flesh.Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
Romans 3:26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
Romans 3:27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith."


5. Yeshua is not defined as a God in the OT. Besides that, would you call Him the Son of God in the OT.
No I would call him God of the OT… (smile), 1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;"
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
AND THE "ROCK" IS GOD, JESUS, the HOLY SPIRIT.


6. If He was there you would not need to comb the scripture with a microscope to find Him.
He is right there in Genesis 1:1 as the Aleph = א and Tav = ת. or in the Greek the Alpha, and the Omega, or in English, the First and the Last, or the beginning and the End. JESUS/YESHUA, there he is.

As a matter of Fact one can find him from Genesis to Revelation.


7. The Jews believed that the messiah...was a junior figure to Elijah in their estimation....they believed the messiah would be a human warlord king that would rescue them from their oppressors and put them in world power....instead of a warlord they got the Lord.

If that’s what the Jews believe, that’s on them, that don’t change the word of God a bit.



8. It would be sacrilegious to the point of death by stoning for someone to insinuate that the messiah would be a God. For one thing they only believed in one God, one name, and one person so to speak. For two, since the messiah was considered a junior figure to Elijah, it would be an insult to a God. Junior to Elijah, that is why Elijah was to introduce the messiah.

Again I can care less what the Jews thought. Again the bible don’t change for a Jew or Gentile.



9. If they...the prophets knew that the messiah would be a God...the Son of God It would fill the prophetic books. They would be dancing in the streets and shouting from the mountain tops. It would appear throughout the prophetic books, I mean it would fill the prophetic books. "My daddy is going to beat up your daddy" thing was prescribed to the messiah and was written on their pottery. So even the storyline of the prophetic books would have change drastically. Yeshua is a God of love, forgiveness, and preached pacifism....that would not be what the Jews were expecting. His message of love, forgiveness, and pacifism was startling to Jews...and His claim to be the Son of God was sacrilegious to them. More than one reason, but His teachings and His claim to be the Son of God was one of the reasons that they desired for Him to die the worst death they knew of. Worse than stoning they turned Him over to Romans for a much worse death.

A. they knew that the messiah is God manifested in flesh.

B. Most, not all of the Jews was ignorant of the scriptures foretelling of the coming messiah, which answered your #4. not all, but some did know. So discussing what the Jews think is useless, no business of mind, I'm only intrested in what the scriptures say. But we have the scriptures, do you believe that the messiah is God in flesh, or you just like most of the Jews of that Day?


PICJAG

101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Correct - the God of Abraham was "El"

How about "JESUS, English the NEW NAME, for God personal name was never given in the OT. supportive scripture, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

"shall" is future tense, and in that day? what day was that? answer, "I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I" so when was that DAY? scripture,
John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come."
John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come."
John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

"I am he", is Jesus who spoke in Isaiah 52:6

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Grailhunter]

so we can take this as you have no scripture support as to what you said?... just what I thought. all talk but no scripture. oh well since it is getting late on my end, I'll post the rest of your question since you have nothing to offer.

2. Yahweh was adamant that there was only one God and He was it and there was no one like Him.
Philippians 2:6 proves that Jesus is God, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:" for in Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." IT'S THE SAME PERSON.


3. There is no discussion of the three aspects of Yahweh in the OT.
NO, there is, for this is what prophecy is all about in the OT, listen,1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."
so the discussion was made. But it was only one in the OT, who had the discussion of what to come…. yes, one and only one, , Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:", Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
this is what prophecy is all about, that’s the discussion…



4. Yahweh does not discuss things that Him and His Son would be doing, or had done in the past.

wHO TOLD YOU THAT lie?, God will tell his business and no one can do anything about it, nor stop it… (smile)… LOL, LOL, LOL. listen up,

Isaiah 45:19 "I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right."
Isaiah 45:20 "Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save."
Isaiah 45:21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me."


Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,"
Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"


Isaiah 48:3 "I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass."
Isaiah 48:4 "Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;"
Isaiah 48:5 "I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them."
Isaiah 48:6 "Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them."
Isaiah 48:7 "They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them."
Isaiah 48:8 "Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb."


Isaiah 57:12 "I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee."
question, "Where is his righteousness?" In his Son, he himself, diversified in flesh.Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"
Romans 3:25 "Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;"
Romans 3:26 "To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
Romans 3:27 "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith."


5. Yeshua is not defined as a God in the OT. Besides that, would you call Him the Son of God in the OT.
No I would call him God of the OT… (smile), 1 Corinthians 10:2 "And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;"
1 Corinthians 10:3 "And did all eat the same spiritual meat;"
1 Corinthians 10:4 "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
AND THE "ROCK" IS GOD, JESUS, the HOLY SPIRIT.


6. If He was there you would not need to comb the scripture with a microscope to find Him.
He is right there in Genesis 1:1 as the Aleph = א and Tav = ת. or in the Greek the Alpha, and the Omega, or in English, the First and the Last, or the beginning and the End. JESUS/YESHUA, there he is.

As a matter of Fact one can find him from Genesis to Revelation.


7. The Jews believed that the messiah...was a junior figure to Elijah in their estimation....they believed the messiah would be a human warlord king that would rescue them from their oppressors and put them in world power....instead of a warlord they got the Lord.

If that’s what the Jews believe, that’s on them, that don’t change the word of God a bit.



8. It would be sacrilegious to the point of death by stoning for someone to insinuate that the messiah would be a God. For one thing they only believed in one God, one name, and one person so to speak. For two, since the messiah was considered a junior figure to Elijah, it would be an insult to a God. Junior to Elijah, that is why Elijah was to introduce the messiah.

Again I can care less what the Jews thought. Again the bible don’t change for a Jew or Gentile.



9. If they...the prophets knew that the messiah would be a God...the Son of God It would fill the prophetic books. They would be dancing in the streets and shouting from the mountain tops. It would appear throughout the prophetic books, I mean it would fill the prophetic books. "My daddy is going to beat up your daddy" thing was prescribed to the messiah and was written on their pottery. So even the storyline of the prophetic books would have change drastically. Yeshua is a God of love, forgiveness, and preached pacifism....that would not be what the Jews were expecting. His message of love, forgiveness, and pacifism was startling to Jews...and His claim to be the Son of God was sacrilegious to them. More than one reason, but His teachings and His claim to be the Son of God was one of the reasons that they desired for Him to die the worst death they knew of. Worse than stoning they turned Him over to Romans for a much worse death.

A. they knew that the messiah is God manifested in flesh.

B. Most, not all of the Jews was ignorant of the scriptures foretelling of the coming messiah, which answered your #4. not all, but some did know. So discussing what the Jews think is useless, no business of mind, I'm only intrested in what the scriptures say. But we have the scriptures, do you believe that the messiah is God in flesh, or you just like most of the Jews of that Day?


PICJAG

101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Well I did provide scriptures, anyone can see that you are lying...I did provide scriptures, just that as I suspected scriptures do not mean anything to you. Step by step you are wrong.

If you want to talk about the religion of Jehovah's witnesses, you need to stop attempting to deceive and be honest and forthright.
You have the right to believe in what the Jehovah's Witnesses preach...but I will take a stand against your attempt to deceive.
There is a whole host of things in the Jehovah's Witness religion that mainstream Christians are going to take exception to.
Those that deny the Deity of Christ are enemies to Christ, the Bible, and to all of Christianity.
When interventionists go in to rescue people from the Jehovah's Witness religion they are well aware of how they have twisted the scriptures to brainwash people. Which has earned them the category of cult. Most people use the term cult incorrectly but the general understood meaning is there. There is a list of religions that keep interventionists busy...Jehovah's Witnesses is at the top of the list, just because of their shear numbers. There are worse cults but they are fewer in numbers and activity. Again "Spiritual Saboteur" you need to be honest and forthright.

 

[101G]

Well I did provide scriptures, anyone can see that you are lying...I did provide scriptures, just that as I suspected scriptures do not mean anything to you. Step by step you are wrong.

if you provided scripture, where is the scripture that you say you provided?... this is what you posted,

Do yourself a favor, dig a little deeper.
Judaism and Christianity is big apple, most people only know the skin....good skin and good for you, but not very deep.
1. If you are reading the word Lord in the OT, you are probably reading a corruption of the scriptures where they took God the Father's name out of the scriptures and replaced it with the word Lord or God. Lord is a generic term in the OT. Even the word Baal means lord.
2. Yahweh was adamant that there was only one God and He was it and there was no one like Him.
3. There is no discussion of the three aspects of Yahweh in the OT.
4. Yahweh does not discuss things that Him and His Son would be doing, or had done in the past.
5. Yeshua is not defined as a God in the OT. Besides that, would you call Him the Son of God in the OT.
6. If He was there you would not need to comb the scripture with a microscope to find Him.
7. The Jews believed that the messiah...was a junior figure to Elijah in their estimation....they believed the messiah would be a human warlord king that would rescue them from their oppressors and put them in world power....instead of a warlord they got the Lord.
8. It would be sacrilegious to the point of death by stoning for someone to insinuate that the messiah would be a God. For one thing they only believed in one God, one name, and one person so to speak. For two, since the messiah was considered a junior figure to Elijah, it would be an insult to a God. Junior to Elijah, that is why Elijah was to introduce the messiah.
9. If they...the prophets knew that the messiah would be a God...the Son of God It would fill the prophetic books. They would be dancing in the streets and shouting from the mountain tops. It would appear throughout the prophetic books, I mean it would fill the prophetic books. "My daddy is going to beat up your daddy" thing was prescribed to the messiah and was written on their pottery. So even the storyline of the prophetic books would have change drastically. Yeshua is a God of love, forgiveness, and preached pacifism....that would not be what the Jews were expecting. His message of love, forgiveness, and pacifism was startling to Jews...and His claim to be the Son of God was sacrilegious to them. More than one reason, but His teachings and His claim to be the Son of God was one of the reasons that they desired for Him to die the worst death they knew of. Worse than stoning they turned Him over to Romans for a much worse death.

SO Grailhunter, WHERE IS ONE SCRIPTURE IN ALL YOU POSTED, WHERE?

so before you call me a .... lets use a none threathing word, "equivocator", check yourself first.

Good night.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

You are not even doing a good job at twisting the scriptures....Christ was all man and all God.
And you need to be honest with the folks on this forum.
If you want to challenge the Deity of Christ, you need to be honest.
If you want to challenge the fact that Yeshua was the physical and spiritual Son of God, you need to be honest and forthright.
This all reeks of Jehovah Wittiness who printed a bible to deny the Deity of the Son of God, you need to be honest and forthright.
When they printed a bible to deny the Deity of the Son of God they made the choice to be an enemy to Christ and the scriptures...."Spiritual Saboteur"

There seems to be some confusion between yourself and the one you think may be a JV - on the nature of Christs divinity. The first thing to be said is that nowhere in the gospels is it stated that Christ was "all man and all God" - so there seems to be some scripture twisting on your part as well.

There is no "defacto" answer on the Trinity in the Gospels. The early church fought over the nature of the divinity of Christ for 3 centuries.
Many different ideas were put forward. One thing to note is that for the first 200 years after the Death of our Lord - while there were many different claims w/r to the divinity of Jesus - None of the early Church fathers were claiming that Jesus was "The Father"

Around 200 - when Tertullian first proposed an idea similar to the modern Trinity - this was looked upon as heresy. It took another century for Jesus to be viewed as "The Father" - a political move by a Pagan Emperor.

That was not the end of it though - the debate raged on for another 500 years or so until time of Charlamangne who finally managed to convert most of the Arians in Western Europe over to his side - even then however, the Eastern Orthodox Church was still not on board.

 

[Heyzeus]

How about "JESUS, English the NEW NAME, for God personal name was never given in the OT. supportive scripture, Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I."

"shall" is future tense, and in that day? what day was that? answer, "I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I" so when was that DAY? scripture,
John 8:21 "Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come."
John 8:22 "Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because he saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come."
John 8:23 "And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world."
John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

"I am he", is Jesus who spoke in Isaiah 52:6

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

The passage from John you quote is very vague. What is not vague is the many many times Jesus claims that the Father is an entity other than himself.

This however has little to do with who the God of Abraham was. The God of Abraham was not YHWH. The God of Abraham was El - at least according to the consensus of modern Biblical Scholarship.

 

[101G]

The passage from John you quote is very vague. What is not vague is the many many times Jesus claims that the Father is an entity other than himself.

This however has little to do with who the God of Abraham was. The God of Abraham was not YHWH. The God of Abraham was El - at least according to the consensus of modern Biblical Scholarship.

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, we disagree. John is very clear, just as he was with Isaiah seeing him in his glory. listen, Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."
Isaiah 6:4 "And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke."

NOW John's witness of this same same vision, but now fulfilled.

John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:"
John 12:38 "That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?"
John 12:39 "Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,"
John 12:40 "He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
John 12:41 "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him."

the prophet Isaiah saw JESUS, God almighty in the Flesh, Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?"
Isaiah 53:2 "For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him."
Isaiah 53:3 "He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not."
Isaiah 53:4 "Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted."
Isaiah 53:5 "But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed."

see Heyzeus, the "ARM" of God is a "he", the Lord Jesus, God almighty himself. how do we know this? here's how, listen, Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

THERE IS THAT "ARM" OF GOD REVEALED IN Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?" the ARM of God is Jesus, GOD, himself in flesh..... the Spirit REVEALED. how plain can you get. and John testified to it, John 12:37 "But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:"

Just like a many today, they do not believe that Jesus is God almighty in Flesh. and what they are ignorant of is that God "shared" or G243 allos himself in flesh.

see Heyzeus there is nothing vague in John or Isaiah, the Word of God the written Bible is TRUE, nothing vague, it is US who have been taught wrong and are looking through a dark glass, and cannot see the truth.

did you not hear Isaiah? he Called God both "LORD", and "Lord". LORD with out flesh, title, Father, Lord with flesh Son. listen,
Isaiah 6:1 "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple."
Isaiah 6:2 "Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly."
Isaiah 6:3 "And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory."

notice the "Lord" in verse 1, and the same Lord is the "LORD", all caps, of HOST.

we suggest you re-read this post for UNDERSTANDING, and if you have any question, please ask.


Now to the Name of God, God never gave his personal Name to anyone in the OT. he only gave his NAME as to "WHAT" he is and not "WHO" he is, which is a big difference.

now, FYI, YHWH, or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw), is the Name God gave to Moses as to "WHAT" he is and not "WHO" he is in name. understand what I just said?

and as for "EL" that is not God personal Name as to "WHO" he is, but if you care to share your information on this name please free to do so, and then we can discuss what you posted... ok.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

GINOLJC, to all.
First thanks for the reply, second, we disagree. John is very clear, just as he was with Isaiah seeing him in his glory. listen,

see Heyzeus there is nothing vague in John or Isaiah, the Word of God the written Bible is TRUE, nothing vague, it is US who have been taught wrong and are looking through a dark glass, and cannot see the truth.

did you not hear Isaiah? he Called God both "LORD", and "Lord". LORD with out flesh, title, Father, Lord with flesh Son. listen,

notice the "Lord" in verse 1, and the same Lord is the "LORD", all caps, of HOST.

we suggest you re-read this post for UNDERSTANDING, and if you have any question, please ask.


Now to the Name of God, God never gave his personal Name to anyone in the OT. he only gave his NAME as to "WHAT" he is and not "WHO" he is, which is a big difference.

now, FYI, YHWH, or H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw), is the Name God gave to Moses as to "WHAT" he is and not "WHO" he is in name. understand what I just said?

and as for "EL" that is not God personal Name as to "WHO" he is, but if you care to share your information on this name please free to do so, and then we can discuss what you posted... ok.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

I don't think we do disagree. The passages you post would be good for a prophecy discussion but nothing in those passages relates to the Trinity - as in Jesus and God - the Father - being one in the same. John depicts Jesus as "The Logos". The Logos is the emissary between man and God.

Second - I agree with you that YHWH is not God's name - but .. YHWH was not the God of Abraham. El was the God of Abraham - who's name was El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"

 

[101G]

John depicts Jesus as "The Logos". The Logos is the emissary between man and God.

thanks for the reply, but consider this, Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." WHY? Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,"

and just as John said that the Logos is God.

Second - I agree with you that YHWH is not God's name - but .. YHWH was not the God of Abraham. El was the God of Abraham - who's name was El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"

well I disagree with this POINT, YHWH was the God of Abraham, but YHWH is not God personal Name. but YHWH is God name in as to "WHAT" he is. I hear you say these names, El was the God of Abraham - who's name was El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"
but did not Abraham say, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." and this is where men falsely derived YHWH from, as well as El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"

before we discuss I suggest you read up on El (deity) at El (deity) - Wikipedia).

especially on the section the "Hebrew Bible", with it's use of "EL".

but Read the book of Hosea chapter 2 carefully... ok.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

thanks for the reply, but consider this, Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." WHY? Hebrews 6:13 "For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,"

and just as John said that the Logos is God.

God is not "The Logos" God is not "The emissary between man and God" - That would be Jesus.
Paul did not believe that Jesus that God and the Father were the same entity - but ... why on earth would you use Paul .. when you can use Jesus ?

What is doubly problematic - is that you have not addressed any of the passages where Jesus states clearly (not vague allusion like the stuff you have posted - most of which has nothing to do with Trinity dogma) that he is not God - the Father.

well I disagree with this POINT, YHWH was the God of Abraham, but YHWH is not God personal Name. but YHWH is God name in as to "WHAT" he is. I hear you say these names, El was the God of Abraham - who's name was El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"
but did not Abraham say, Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." and this is where men falsely derived YHWH from, as well as El Shaddai = God of the Mountain - "The most High" "Creator God" "The Father" and so on"

before we discuss I suggest you read up on El (deity) at El (deity) - Wikipedia).

especially on the section the "Hebrew Bible", with it's use of "EL".

but Read the book of Hosea chapter 2 carefully... ok.

The God of Abraham was "El" and Chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. It was much later - after the time of Moses - when the Characteristics of El were grafted onto depictions of YHWH.

The Israelites were not "monotheists" - they believed in the existence of many Gods - a "Divine Pantheon"

Here is a link from the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures - on Psalm 82 "El as the speaking voice"

You can go to the Encyclopedia Britannica - "Abraham" and it tells you why Biblical Scholarship believes the God of Abraham was all (aside from the obvious - his place of birth Ur - where El was was the Big Cheese) Abraham - The Genesis narrative in the light of recent scholarship

 

[DaChaser]

the apostles never believed such a thing. they understood the term "Father" & "Son", and they knew these titles was not biological in nature. as stated above in post #70 the Spirit of Christ is the OT GOD, the ordinal "First". and knoiwing that it is the Spirit of Christ in the OT, (for there is only ONE Spirit), this same one Spirit is who inspired the prophets of the OT to prophesie. 2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." and who Spirit was in these men that "MOVED" them? answer, 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

the Spirit of Christ is the God of the OT, the Holy Spirit. how plain can one get.

how many way must God by his Holy word tell you that he, JESUS, is the only God of the OT and the NT. ... how long?

there is your Father, Son, and Holy Spirit right there in the OLD TESTMENT in the ONE PERSON of JESUS.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Oneness and Modualism are outright heresies!

 

[DaChaser]

God is not "The Logos" God is not "The emissary between man and God" - That would be Jesus.
Paul did not believe that Jesus that God and the Father were the same entity - but ... why on earth would you use Paul .. when you can use Jesus ?

What is doubly problematic - is that you have not addressed any of the passages where Jesus states clearly (not vague allusion like the stuff you have posted - most of which has nothing to do with Trinity dogma) that he is not God - the Father.




The God of Abraham was "El" and Chief God of the Sumerian Pantheon. It was much later - after the time of Moses - when the Characteristics of El were grafted onto depictions of YHWH.

The Israelites were not "monotheists" - they believed in the existence of many Gods - a "Divine Pantheon"

Here is a link from the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures - on Psalm 82 "El as the speaking voice"

You can go to the Encyclopedia Britannica - "Abraham" and it tells you why Biblical Scholarship believes the God of Abraham was all (aside from the obvious - his place of birth Ur - where El was was the Big Cheese) Abraham - The Genesis narrative in the light of recent scholarship

The Jews knew of ONE supreme Being, Yahweh!

 

[101G]

God is not "The Logos" God is not "The emissary between man and God" - That would be Jesus.

thanks for the reply,
your First ERROR of the day, the Lord Jesus is the DAY man/mediator and he is God diversified in flesh.... scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
do you know what, or Who the "advocate" is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

now your second error, you said, "God is not "The Logos" John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." BINGO.

Oneness and Modualism are outright heresies!

well I'm neither.... I'm "Diversified Oneness".

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

The Jews knew of ONE supreme Being, Yahweh!

Talking Israelites here .. not Jews Mate ... albeit Judah was one tribe .. but don't really classify those folks as "Jews" either .. there is a distinction between the Israelites prior to the destruction of the temple ~500 BC - and what came after - Jewish people.

Talking the time of Moses - Joshua and what came - keeping in mind the Northern Kingdom was destroyed by Assyria round 700 BC - the people forcibly Assimilated.

The Israelites in general did not spend much time worshiping this YHWH fellow. .. and if they were worshiping YHWH - he had a consort .. Asherah .. at least in some forms of YHWH worship.

It is no longer debated in serious circles - which includes - and especially Jewish ones - as the OT is their purview - that the Israelites were monolateralists. Monolatry (Greek: μόνος [monos] = single, and λατρεία [latreia] = worship) is belief in the existence of many gods but with the consistent worship of only one deity.

So while they were to worship only one God - they believed in the existence of many. http://www.jhsonline.org/Articles/article_144.pdf from the Journal of Hebrew Scriptures ..

and this one is good as well ... http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/DT32BibSac.pdf - on Deuteronomy 32. The first part covers how El had 70 sons ... how the earth was divided among the sons - each having their portion/people - YHWHs portion was Israel - and he was their patron God - the God they were to worship - according to Deut32

Page 7 is also interesting Deut:32:43 - from 3 different Bibles - Two are pre common era - BC LXX - Septuagint - the text that the Jews were using at the time and thus the early Christians.... 4DeutQ - a Qumran text. Then you have the Masoretic Text (MT) composed from 700-900AD. .. so 1000 years later .. pre -Christianity - Post Christianity ..

You can see how the other divinities have been stripped from the text.. but - they used to be there :)

Deut 32:43

"Oh Heavens Rejoice with him -bow to him all Sons of the divine !

OH Nations rejoice with his people and let all angels of the divine strengthen themselves in him

For He'll avenge the blood of his sons, be vengeful and wreak vengeance and recompence justice on his foes.
Requite those who reject him, and the lord will cleanse his peoples land."

The heavens are rejoicing with the supreme God - some kind of celebration is happening in heaven. In the Heavens - are the Sons of God.

The Nations are rejoicing as well - and with them the angels. Note that the Angels and these other divinities are clearly distinguished. - Which makes perfect sense knowing what we do now about ancient Israelite Religion - mind you - we didn't need to dig stuff up to know this.. because it is all there in the Bible.


Joshua tells us - in his farewell address -


"Then Joshua assembled all the tribes of Israel at Shechem. He summoned the elders, leaders, judges and officials of Israel, and they presented themselves before God.

2 Joshua said to all the people, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Long ago your ancestors, including Terah the father of Abraham and Nahor, lived beyond the Euphrates River and worshiped other gods....

14 “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.”

16 Then the people answered, “Far be it from us to forsake the Lord to serve other gods! 17 It was the Lord our God himself who brought us and our parents up out of Egypt, from that land of slavery, and performed those great signs before our eyes"

OK .. so in Egypt the Israelite's were worshiping other Gods. You then have a short period under Moses where they are worshiping this new God - God of Moses ..

Moses steps out for a few weeks and they go right back to worshiping Bull - El - and Consort Asherah (Golden Calf) and perhaps one of the sons making it a Divine Trinity.. that son perhaps even being YHWH in this case .. who knows.. What we do know is they went back to El - God of their Ancestors - and God of Abraham.

but never mind Abraham .. we are talking the Israelites. Moses does a huge assassination due to this insurrection - as any good general does .. quelling the dissention in the ranks.

Moses dies - Joshua takes over - (a fellow that was in the tent that has been following them around for many years - tent of the Lords Presence)

Yet - somehow - Joshua is asking these people to make a choice ?? huh .. This is the generation which had God travelling with them - in person.. witnessed miracles - and so on. So obviously many were still worshiping the ancient God El ..Asherah and on of the Sons .. be it YHWH or the Baal's .. making the Trinity Holy ...

Stripping the Female out of the Trinity would have been universally viewed in the entire Near East as pure Evil - and to think of it .. they may have a point.

but lets continue. What do the people do after Joshua dies .. shortly after this speech ? right back to El - Asherah - "Son of God" pick your favorite flavor - some of which included Child Sacrifice. The Bible Ain't joking about that .. historically accurate.

by the time we get to Solomon - Solomon himself is building Temples to Child Sacrifice Gods - the Bible tells us So. Things deteriorate further from there - Elijah - round 850 tells us that he is the only prophet of the one true God in all of Israel - he then cites 500 Baals and 450 Asherah prophets.

So tell me - if you have one lunatic running around the State - cast and persecuted as a lunatic by the Political Class - how many in Israel do you think are worshiping YHWH at that point ? - not that there were many previously... but surely this is an all time low.

Things do not improve for centuries until one day at the time of the 16th King of Judah (most if not all worshiping other Gods) Joziah ~600 BC - some finds the book of the law. First Question -- well how long was it lost for :) we don't know but many centuries.

Joziah - thinking YHWH must be upset and their poor fortunes are punishment - institutes a war against these other God's but it is too late - the Northern Kingdom has been taken over and the Southern Kingdom is under Siege and will fall in a short period of time.

 

[Heyzeus]

thanks for the reply,
your First ERROR of the day, the Lord Jesus is the DAY man/mediator and he is God diversified in flesh.... scripture, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"
do you know what, or Who the "advocate" is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

now your second error, you said, "God is not "The Logos" John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." BINGO.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Did you think I was not aware of this passage my Friend ?! -

First question - Why is the word Logos - translated as "Word" ?

and here you have now found some Pious Fraud. Deliberate Mistranslation in order to mislead -

Like many words .. the term "Logos" has different meanings - one of which is "Word"

When this word is used in a religious context - term Logos means "emissary between man and God" or "The word of God"

Jesus was the Logos - the Emissary between man and God - in every sense of the word.
Jesus spoke Gods word through the Holy Spirit .. Jesus was the physical embodiment of "The Word of God"

Now read this passage again - but now with a better understanding of the what is being said.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." BINGO.

Jesus is the human embodiment of God's word - and this word IS God - it is God's word - delivered to the people through Jesus.

The author of John was speaking to a Greek Audience - Pauline Christianity. The people of the day were all familiar with the term "Logos" used in a religious context .. This concept was known by everyone - was the basis for Pontifex Maximus of the Caesar's - hence why Jesus - or any other "Messiah" is treading on dangerous ground .. as usurping the position of Caesar "Emissary between man and God" - could be considered a capital offense.

Constantine assumed Pontifex Maximus if not mistaken.

but anyway - The author of John wanted to use concepts that the common people would relate and understand - to increase the appeal of Christianity. ..

But never mind John - why do you continue to neglect the Jesus of Matt and Mark ? - who stated a gazillion times that he is not the Father.

Would you like a few examples .. starting with his last words on the Cross ? I have addressed your comments - you have not given me the same courtesy. You are completely ignoring the fact that Jesus himself stated - numerous times - that he was not God - The Father.

What he does state - in many ways - is that he is the Logos - the emissary between man and God.

 

[101G]

Did you think I was not aware of this passage my Friend ?! -

First question - Why is the word Logos - translated as "Word" ?

First Question, First answer, for the "WORD" is SPIRIT....... (smile), and God is a, a, a, a, ONE Spirit. did you not know that, your words are "spirit", notice the small case "s" in spirit, God Word is "Spirit". see the difference, well I guess you didn't KNOW.

now, Heyzeus the word is Spirit who is now in Flesh, listen again, 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

do you understand that?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

First Question, First answer, for the "WORD" is SPIRIT....... (smile), and God is a, a, a, a, ONE Spirit. did you not know that, your words are "spirit", notice the small case "s" in spirit, God Word is "Spirit". see the difference, well I guess you didn't KNOW.

now, Heyzeus the word is Spirit who is now in Flesh, listen again, 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

do you understand that?

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Yes .. the word is now flesh - exactly what I told you ... that is what the Logos is - the word of God made flesh - Emissary between man and god.

Why do you persist in failing to address the Jesus of Matt Mark ? Like he does no even exist. Is this a form of denial ? park those bad thoughts away somewhere in a cabinet and just never look at them ?

Then you Quote 1 Peter - which is Pseudepigrapha - again rather than putting eyes on the Jesus of Matt/Mark.

What did that Jesus have to say about the Father - "DIRECTLY" - and why do you want to ignore that fact that this Jesus coincides directly with the Logos in John - as I have described - and also directly refutes your claim.

Do you not see this as a problem - Where is your response to the Jesus of Matt/Mark ?

Please address - Jesus last words on the cross "My God My God - why have you forsaken me".

Who is this God Jesus is referring to - is it himself ? Did God - while hanging on the cross in some kind of masochistic extasy -- forget who he was an start calling out to himself and forsaken himself ? Or is did Jesus think God was going to not go through with the full plan - and come down in a hurl of firebolts and rescue his son - the "Son of Man" who becomes the Son of God according to Mark - at the age of 30.

and why was Jesus asking God to take this cup from him (not make him go through with the plan) if he was God .. was he asking permission from himself.

 

[101G]

Yes .. the word is now flesh - exactly what I told you ... that is what the Logos is - the word of God made flesh

Second ERROR of the DAY, did you not hear me? the "Spirit that is in, in, in, that flesh is the Word, the Spirit.... see your ERROR now, he, the Spirit put on flesh not that he is that Flesh... lol, lol.

we suggest you read this post carefully.
see Matthews and Mark is saying, just what John said in 1 John, LISTEN, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (HOLD IT, JOHN WAS NOT AT THE BEGINNING, NOT AT GENESIS 1:1 ... ... BUT GOD WAS, THAT'S WHY JOHN IN 1:1 SAID "WAS" NOW, THAT "WAS" AT THE BEGINNING IS NOW MANIFESTED IN FLESH. BINGO.

1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)" SEE THAT FLESH IS NOT "LIFE"... (SMILE), BUT WHAT'S IN THAT FLESH IS "LIFE".
1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." JUST LIKE MATTHEWS AND MARK THEY ARE DECLARING ... WHAT WAS NOT SEEN "SPIRIT" IS NOW SEEN... MANIFESTED.
1 John 1:4 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full." WELL?


Lets understand the "WORD" of God which is "POWERFUL and "QUICK.... (smile). Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." this is the Lord Jesus, HOW DO WE KNOW THIS?, listen, Isaiah 49:2 "And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;" ... (smile)... lol, lol. see that sharp sword coming out of his mouth, that's the "WORD" of God... LOL, LOL, LOL. my, my, now follow that sword again in Revelation... Oh my, "who let the dogs out?". you might wanrt to make a cross reference on those two to three verses for future reference. when will they ever learn.

now lets see this "WORD" of God in the OT,
once again, 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

WHERE WAS THE "SPIRIT OF CHRIST?", in, in, in, in, THEM, them who? the prophets. lets see this, just a few examples,

Isaiah 38:4 "Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying," (WHO CAME TO ISAIAH?).

Jeremiah 1:1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:"
Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign."
(WHO CAME TO JEREMIAH?)

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him." (WHO CAME TO EZEKIEL?)

Hosea 1:1 "The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel." (WHO CAME TO HOSEA?).

it goes on and on prophet after prophet. the WORD of God is "Spirit", and God is a Spirit, per John 4:24a...

see all these so called scholars who lied about the "WORD" of God as the Logos in John 1:1 are just what God called them in Isaiah,

Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."
Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

and this is what many are, "dumb dogs", who are, "greedy dogs which can never have enough". NOW this is not 101G, that's God, so take that up with him.....

as said you might want to re-read this post for full understanding.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Heyzeus]

Second ERROR of the DAY, did you not hear me? the "Spirit that is in, in, in, that flesh is the Word, the Spirit.... see your ERROR now, he, the Spirit put on flesh not that he is that Flesh... lol, lol.

we suggest you read this post carefully.
see Matthews and Mark is saying, just what John said in 1 John, LISTEN, 1 John 1:1 "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;" (HOLD IT, JOHN WAS NOT AT THE BEGINNING, NOT AT GENESIS 1:1 ... ... BUT GOD WAS, THAT'S WHY JOHN IN 1:1 SAID "WAS" NOW, THAT "WAS" AT THE BEGINNING IS NOW MANIFESTED IN FLESH. BINGO.

1 John 1:2 "(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)" SEE THAT FLESH IS NOT "LIFE"... (SMILE), BUT WHAT'S IN THAT FLESH IS "LIFE".
1 John 1:3 "That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ." JUST LIKE MATTHEWS AND MARK THEY ARE DECLARING ... WHAT WAS NOT SEEN "SPIRIT" IS NOW SEEN... MANIFESTED.
1 John 1:4 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full." WELL?


Lets understand the "WORD" of God which is "POWERFUL and "QUICK.... (smile). Hebrews 4:12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." this is the Lord Jesus, HOW DO WE KNOW THIS?, listen, Isaiah 49:2 "And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me;" ... (smile)... lol, lol. see that sharp sword coming out of his mouth, that's the "WORD" of God... LOL, LOL, LOL. my, my, now follow that sword again in Revelation... Oh my, "who let the dogs out?". you might wanrt to make a cross reference on those two to three verses for future reference. when will they ever learn.

now lets see this "WORD" of God in the OT,
once again, 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

WHERE WAS THE "SPIRIT OF CHRIST?", in, in, in, in, THEM, them who? the prophets. lets see this, just a few examples,

Isaiah 38:4 "Then came the word of the LORD to Isaiah, saying," (WHO CAME TO ISAIAH?).

Jeremiah 1:1 "The words of Jeremiah the son of Hilkiah, of the priests that were in Anathoth in the land of Benjamin:"
Jeremiah 1:2 "To whom the word of the LORD came in the days of Josiah the son of Amon king of Judah, in the thirteenth year of his reign."
(WHO CAME TO JEREMIAH?)

Ezekiel 1:3 "The word of the LORD came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the LORD was there upon him." (WHO CAME TO EZEKIEL?)

Hosea 1:1 "The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel." (WHO CAME TO HOSEA?).

it goes on and on prophet after prophet. the WORD of God is "Spirit", and God is a Spirit, per John 4:24a...

see all these so called scholars who lied about the "WORD" of God as the Logos in John 1:1 are just what God called them in Isaiah,

Isaiah 56:10 "His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber."
Isaiah 56:11 "Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter."

and this is what many are, "dumb dogs", who are, "greedy dogs which can never have enough". NOW this is not 101G, that's God, so take that up with him.....

as said you might want to re-read this post for full understanding.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

What scholars are lying about the logos ? reputable ones.

And once again you completely fail to consider the words of Jesus - anything to avoid this uncomfortable reality - where Jesus refutes you your claims.

Then there is the glaring fact that none of the disciples - nor the early Church Fathers believed what you are claiming - nor the people of the day.

You have done everything in your power to avoid the words of Jesus on this issue - found in Matt - Mark. Repeating John 1 over and over - but even denying the meaning of that passage.

Either respond to Jesus in Matt/Mark - or default your lost position.

 

[101G]

What scholars are lying about the logos ? reputable ones.

And once again you completely fail to consider the words of Jesus - anything to avoid this uncomfortable reality - where Jesus refutes you your claims.

Then there is the glaring fact that none of the disciples - nor the early Church Fathers believed what you are claiming - nor the people of the day.

You have done everything in your power to avoid the words of Jesus on this issue - found in Matt - Mark. Repeating John 1 over and over - but even denying the meaning of that passage.

Either respond to Jesus in Matt/Mark - or default your lost position.

first thanks for the reply, second, See post #31, and then your post 45, 90, and yourself acting as a scholar, stating that we are .. “twisting” the scriptures, so who made you a scholar? also see posts 51, 57, 85

now I have given you every answer to your questions, now if you cannot comprehend what I'm saying leave it alone.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"