The Basis of Salvation

[Cooper]

Is that YOUR rule – or is that how it is spelled out in Scripture?

Baptism is the fulfillment of the OT type that WAS circumcision. As you know – 8-day-old baby boys were circumcised as a means of entering the Covenant with God - and were raised in the faith by their parents.

As Christians, we enter the NEW Covenant with God through Baptism. Baptized children are also raised in the faith by their parents. This is why Paul calls Baptism, “the circumcision of Christ” (Col. 2:11).

Remember - not just Abraham, but ALL males in his household were to be circumcised.

Peter and Paul baptized the ENTIRE households of Cornelius, the Philippian Jailer and Stephanas. Entire households included children of ALL ages.
In the case of the Philippian jailer (Acts 16:30–34), he was told, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved, you AND YOUR HOUSEHOLD.”

As for full immersion being the “ONLY” way to baptize – there is ZERO Biblical mandate for that. According to the 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) - Baptism can be done by immersion OR by pouring over the head:

The Didache
Concerning baptism, baptise thus: Having first rehearsed all these things, "baptise, in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost," in running water;
But if thou hast no running water, baptise in other water, and if thou canst not in cold, then in warm.
But if thou hast neither, POUR WATER THREE TIMES ON THE HEAD "in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost."
The Didache was written while most of the Apostles were STILL alive.
YOUR ideas about Baptism don’t exist in Scripture OR Tradition . . .

The way I explained it in my own word is how it is in all the mainstream Protestant churches. The example comes from the Lord and it is scriptural as you outlined. I once spent time on a Catholic forum in Ireland, and they were very angry with the Catholic Church for insisting they were baptised as tiny babies. These were atheists by the way and from what I remember, when that is done they belong to the Catholic Church for ever. They were furious and wanted the law changing.

When I was born my parents dedicated me to the Lord in like manner to Hannah with Samuel. Then of my own free will I said to my father one night that I wanted to be a Christian, and he led me to the Lord in prayer, and in my childlike way I asked Jesus to come into my heart and life. That is how it has been for the last 60 plus years. When I was thirteen I heard there was going to be a baptismal service and I said that I wanted to be baptised. I had to stand at the front along with the others and give my testimony as to why I wanted to be baptised. I have grown closer to the Lord ever since. It is a commitment that is made by the person themselves which a baby cannot do, and may never want to.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The way I explained it in my own word is how it is in all the mainstream Protestant churches. The example comes from the Lord and it is scriptural as you outlined. I once spent time on a Catholic forum in Ireland, and they were very angry with the Catholic Church for insisting they were baptised as tiny babies. These were atheists by the way and from what I remember, when that is done they belong to the Catholic Church for ever. They were furious and wanted the law changing.

When I was born my parents dedicated me to the Lord in like manner to Hannah with Samuel. Then of my own free will I said to my father one night that I wanted to be a Christian, and he led me to the Lord in prayer, and in my childlike way I asked Jesus to come into my heart and life. That is how it has been for the last 60 plus years. When I was thirteen I heard there was going to be a baptismal service and I said that I wanted to be baptised. I had to stand at the front along with the others and give my testimony as to why I wanted to be baptised. I have grown closer to the Lord ever since. It is a commitment that is made by the person themselves which a baby cannot do, and may never want to.

I’m not going to mock your Baptism because, as long as it was done in the Trinitarian formula per Matt. 28:19 – it was valid.

I will say, however, that by your parents NOT baptizing you as an infant – they were doing things THEIR way – and not the Biblical way.

The individual examples of Baptism we have in the NT we usually adults because they were all converts. The examples I gave you earlier, however of Cornelius, the Philippian Jailer and Stephanas – their ENTIRE households were baptized. This is the way it was done with circumcision in the early days of the Covenant on the OT – ALL of the males were circumcised – not just the men.

Although the NT is largely silent on Infant Baptism other than the above-mentioned examples – the unanimous testimonies of the Early Church Fathers attest to the fact that this practice was handed down to them by the Apostles.

The idea of a “Believer’s ONLY” Baptism was an invention of the 16th century – and even some of the so-called “Reformers” still practiced Infant Baptism.

 

[Cooper]

I’m not going to mock your Baptism because, as long as it was done in the Trinitarian formula per Matt. 28:19 – it was valid.

I will say, however, that by your parents NOT baptizing you as an infant – they were doing things THEIR way – and not the Biblical way.

The individual examples of Baptism we have in the NT we usually adults because they were all converts. The examples I gave you earlier, however of Cornelius, the Philippian Jailer and Stephanas – their ENTIRE households were baptized. This is the way it was done with circumcision in the early days of the Covenant on the OT – ALL of the males were circumcised – not just the men.

Although the NT is largely silent on Infant Baptism other than the above-mentioned examples – the unanimous testimonies of the Early Church Fathers attest to the fact that this practice was handed down to them by the Apostles.

The idea of a “Believer’s ONLY” Baptism was an invention of the 16th century – and even some of the so-called “Reformers” still practiced Infant Baptism.

I am sorry, but I totally disagree with you.

 

[Marymog]

I am sorry, but I totally disagree with you.

Hi Cooper,

@BreadOfLife suggested that Scripture AND Christian history supports what he believes.

So I am curious; What part of his post do you disagree with? That Scripture does not support him OR Christian history? Possibly both?

Curious Mary

 

[Cooper]

Hi Cooper,

@BreadOfLife suggested that Scripture AND Christian history supports what he believes.

So I am curious; What part of his post do you disagree with? That Scripture does not support him OR Christian history? Possibly both?

Curious Mary

Infant baptism is one, the adoration of the Virgin Mary is another, the Catholics I speak to, think more of her than they do of Jesus. Taking one's eyes of the Saviour and believing the sprinkling babies will secure their children's salvation is the way to Hell. I believe Catholicism is of the devil. You asked, I answered, and I am not prepared to discuss it.
.

 

[Cooper]

What? Where do you see the king of Babylon in those passages? Habakkuk the first chapter is a prophecy concerning the coming of the Chaldeans (Hab 1:6) Habakkuk answers back to God, asking why a good and gracious God would allow the Chaldeans to attack and overtake his people. Chapter 2 begins when Habakkuk sits as the watchmen on the wall, looking for the coming attack, waiting for God to answer.

God answers: Those who read the prophecy and believe it will live, those who have pride will die. Life or Death. God justified those who lived because they believed the prophecy. There is nothing in the passage to suggest that some of those who were justified, didn't live.

Chaldea had been invaded by the Babylonians and assimilated into Babylonia. The King of Babylon was on the march and Judah was next. You have heard of the Babylonian captivity have you not? Well God was using the Babylonian's to knock Israel into shape, and that puts Habakkuk into context.
.

 

[Behold]

I gave you John 3:5 from both PROTESTANT and Catholic Bible translations.

You can't really be this dense . . .

As i said.
Your cult does not use the KJV.
If they did, you would not be calling a man "holy father", nor would you be praying to a plastic stature of Mary.
I think you hear me, but its not going to help you as you have been too long in the wasteland.

 

[Behold]

I gave you John 3:5 from both PROTESTANT and Catholic Bible translations.

You can't really be this dense . . .

Let me define "dense", ......= dense would be following a religious clown in a funny hat who prays to statues.
Why do you do that?
Are you trying to define "dense"?
If so, you succeeded.... as It does not get any more dense then that breadoflife.
What your cult teaches bends truth, denies the cross, and removes logic.
But if you want to continue, then be so dense as to not realize that the cult of mary bible teaches that water regenerates, and the KJV and correct Theology teaches that God's Holy Spirit is the redemption and the author of the New Birth...not the city water supply.

 

[Marymog]

Infant baptism is one, the adoration of the Virgin Mary is another, the Catholics I speak to, think more of her than they do of Jesus. Taking one's eyes of the Saviour and believing the sprinkling babies will secure their children's salvation is the way to Hell. I believe Catholicism is of the devil. You asked, I answered, and I am not prepared to discuss it.

Hi Cooper,

I appreciate your honesty. We don't need to discuss the validity of infant baptism OR those Catholics that you allege "think more of her than they do of Jesus." I was just hoping you could give some Scriptural or historical evidence to backup your belief. You are not prepared to discuss infant baptism or mis-guided Catholics.... so I digress.

How about if we discuss what you DO believe/practice? Do you have any adoration for Mary? (adoration defined: deep love and respect)

Respectfully, Mary

 

[Marymog]

As i said.
Your cult does not use the KJV.
If they did, you would not be calling a man "holy father", nor would you be praying to a plastic stature of Mary.
I think you hear me, but its not going to help you as you have been too long in the wasteland.

You believe that Scripture teaches that we should call no man father even though Scripture calls some men father??

Anyone that is "praying to a plastic stature (statue?) of Mary" would be wrong. That has never been condoned by The Church.

Behold: Do you love, respect and honor Mary?

Curious Mary

 

[Cooper]

Hi Cooper,

I appreciate your honesty. We don't need to discuss the validity of infant baptism OR those Catholics that you allege "think more of her than they do of Jesus." I was just hoping you could give some Scriptural or historical evidence to backup your belief. You are not prepared to discuss infant baptism or mis-guided Catholics.... so I digress.

How about if we discuss what you DO believe/practice? Do you have any adoration for Mary? (adoration defined: deep love and respect)

Respectfully, Mary

Thanks for the offer, but that is something I do not want to do. Sorry.

 

[BreadOfLife]

As i said.
Your cult does not use the KJV.
If they did, you would not be calling a man "holy father", nor would you be praying to a plastic stature of Mary.
I think you hear me, but its not going to help you as you have been too long in the wasteland.

In other words, I caught you with BOTH feet in your mouth again . . .

 

[CadyandZoe]

Chaldea had been invaded by the Babylonians and assimilated into Babylonia. The King of Babylon was on the march and Judah was next. You have heard of the Babylonian captivity have you not? Well God was using the Babylonian's to knock Israel into shape, and that puts Habakkuk into context.
.

While all that might be true. Habbakuk chapters one and two are not about the king of Babylon. These chapters concern Judah.

 

[Marymog]

Thanks for the offer, but that is something I do not want to do. Sorry.

Your welcome....:)

 

[Behold]

In other words, I caught you with BOTH feet in your mouth again . . .

No, you just again said something inane.
I think you own the record.
Listen son, the greek texts that confirm the word of God, negate and deny your catholic heresy and your cult of mary bible.

Your cult of mary bible, teaches that WATER saves.
That is why you and your pope believe it does.
If you were actually a true believer you would understand that its the BLOOD and not the Water, its the SPIRIT and not the water, that God offers and uses to impute righteousness and cause the New Birth.

So, Look at this photo.
Does this not say it all regarding your belief?
Look at this pretender, who is elevating a Plastic Statue as "Queen of Heaven".
So, this religious man made mess is what you have given your life to/for, and you have wasted it so far by doing so.
Thats the end of your story, unless you come to the light of the Truth, and actually leave your cult of mary.
I dont think you have the courage to do it.
I think you will just continue to insult and rant your Catholic cult's heresy.
You've been doing it for 17 yrs. I think its all you have left.

But you could do this...

1: face the truth
2. obey the truth

But till then..

Here is your religion. This is your Church.
enjoy the view...
-
-

-

 

[Cooper]

While all that might be true. Habbakuk chapters one and two are not about the king of Babylon. These chapters concern Judah.

The chapter does indeed concern Judah. God is dealing with the wickedness of the Jews by using the Babylonians, who are a far more wicked nation to punish his own people. So Habakkuk, the man of faith questions God. How can God, who is just and good, who hates evil, send against his people a nation that he openly admits makes a god of its own might? Will he let Babylon (the Chaldeans) cause havoc for ever (v17)? The answer is no. When all is done, only those who trust God and remain loyal to Him will live.

That is the lesson. Let us learn from other peoples mistakes and not disobey God whether by false teaching or in any other way. The people of Israel were taken into captivity this time into Babylon, I think for 200 years? When they came out of captivity they were determined not to let it happen again and this is when they wrote the 613 Mitzvot laws, not in the time of Moses. I keep wondering what awaits us as a nation? It looks as though the righteous will suffer along with the wicked. The least we can do is to get our understanding of scripture correct. Hint, hint.

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, you just again said something inane.
I think you own the record.
Listen son, the greek texts that confirm the word of God, negate and deny your catholic heresy and your cult of mary bible.

Your cult of mary bible, teaches that WATER saves.
That is why you and your pope believe it does.
If you were actually a true believer you would understand that its the BLOOD and not the Water, its the SPIRIT and not the water, that God offers and uses to impute righteousness and cause the New Birth.

So, Look at this photo.
Does this not say it all regarding your belief?
Look at this pretender, who is elevating a Plastic Statue as "Queen of Heaven".
So, this religious man made mess is what you have given your life to/for, and you have wasted it so far by doing so.
Thats the end of your story, unless you come to the light of the Truth, and actually leave your cult of mary.
I dont think you have the courage to do it.
I think you will just continue to insult and rant your Catholic cult's heresy.
You've been doing it for 17 yrs. I think its all you have left.

But you could do this...

1: face the truth
2. obey the truth

But till then..

Here is your religion. This is your Church.
enjoy the view...

Is this person “worshipping” the casket or the dead person inside – or just praying in front of a loved one?

Is this guy “worshipping” a piece of carved stone – or simply praying in front of one?

Your accusations are as asinine and ignorant as your grasp of Scripture and history . . .

 

[Behold]

Is this person “worshipping” the casket or the dead person inside – or just praying in front of a loved one?

Is this guy “worshipping” a piece of carved stone – or simply praying in front of one?

Your accusations are as asinine and ignorant as your grasp of Scripture and history . . .

Using the Grief of people to lie now?
Is there no bottom to your darkness?
Sick.

You are actually trying to prove that these 2 people are praying to that dead person, as proof that you and your pope are "theologically correct" to be praying to a PLASTIC MARY.
Got that?
A Plastic Mary.
Plastic, image, of some artist's idea of what Mary looked like.
Your Pope bows before a Plastic Mary who is wearing a plastic Crown, and you bow before your pope.
This is extreme darkness pretending its related to Jesus.
-

-

 

[Behold]

You believe that Scripture teaches that we should call no man father even though Scripture calls some men father??

Anyone that is "praying to a plastic stature (statue?) of Mary" would be wrong. That has never been condoned by The Church.

Behold: Do you love, respect and honor Mary?

Curious Mary

I never think about Mary.
Mary is not to be compared to the Risen Lord.
Mary is a sinner who was given the blessing of birthing God into the world.
After this, and years later, she sinned, she had more kids, she died.
Jesus never called her MARY.
Not once in the NT. And you dont know that.
I acknowledge she is the chosen among women and for this she is blessed.
But she is just one more human being, born into sin, who died like all the rest.
The cult of Mary, is not of God.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Using the Grief of people to lie now?
Is there no bottom to your darkness?
Sick.

You are actually trying to prove that these 2 people are praying to that dead person, as proof that you and your pope are "theologically correct" to be praying to a PLASTIC MARY.
Got that?
A Plastic Mary.
Plastic, image, of some artist's idea of what Mary looked like.
Your Pope bows before a Plastic Mary who is wearing a plastic Crown, and you bow before your pope.
This is extreme darkness pretending its related to Jesus.

Just as I thought . . .

I gave you TWO examples of people kneeling in prayer before inanimate objects and you were dumbstruck.

The BEST part about it is that you make is so EASY to expose your manure . . .