Did Jesus claim to be God?

[Truther]

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

1 man times 1 woman times 1 cat is one entity?

Really?

That is what we preach akin to adding up the Godhead?

We want folks to believe us?

 

[Truther]

You seem to have lost the Father's Son. A Father without a Son, is not a Father. Without the Son, you do not have a Father God.

The missing Father's Son is not only full of the Holy Spirit Luke 4:1 but is also God Luke 4:12.
.

There are only 2 entities described by Paul....


5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


...God and the man.

That's it....that's all there is in heaven.

John described it as "God and the lamb' in Revelations.

They 2 combined(Spirit inside the man), come inside us.

 

[theophilus]

1 man times 1 woman times 1 cat is one entity?

Really?

That is what we preach akin to adding up the Godhead?

We want folks to believe us?

Antitrinitarians sometimes use the equation 1+1+1=3 to try to disprove the trinity. I was just pointing out that there is more than one way to combine numbers.

 

[Truther]

Antitrinitarians sometimes use the equation 1+1+1=3 to try to disprove the trinity. I was just pointing out that there is more than one way to combine numbers.

Sure, but to describe entities, one must add them the good 'ol fashioned way.

Out of confusion, folks try to times the entities of the trinity, then say the Father times the Son times the Spirit equals one whatever.

 

[Cooper]

Sure, but to describe entities, one must add them the good 'ol fashioned way.

Out of confusion, folks try to times the entities of the trinity, then say the Father times the Son times the Spirit equals one whatever.

I cannot be bothered. All of this is too silly for words.
.

 

[101G]

GINOLJC, to all.

The Holy Ghost is God's Spirit.

God(the Father) is holy...

God(the Father) is a Spirit....

God(the Father) is a holy Spirit.

There is not more than one Holy Spirit.

The Father is the actual Holy Ghost(Spirit if you prefer).

you said, "The Holy Ghost is God's Spirit"
so it's two Spirits Now? for out of your own mouth quoting scripture, "God is a Spirit". and now the Holy Spirit is God Spirit?

There are only 2 entities described by Paul....


5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Now you're finally getting some stability, with ERRORS, for you still have to account for the two Spirits you claim.

but, let's get to this man .... :cool: Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
now Truther, is this man "EQUAL" with God as "Spirit? remember "Form" here means NATURE, and God is a Spirit. and Jesus have the SAME EQUAL NATURE. so now Truther you have three Spirit to deal with now. A. God who is a Spirit, and B. the Holy Spirit whom you say is God's Spirit, and Now you have, C. Jesus who nature is Spirit. you need to reconcicle all these three Spirits. for you said Paul only acknowledge two entities... well now YOU have Three?

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

Sure, but to describe entities, one must add them the good 'ol fashioned way.

Out of confusion, folks try to times the entities of the trinity, then say the Father times the Son times the Spirit equals one whatever.

America is ONE
.​

 

[101G]

to all who follow this topic. lets put aside self-less arguments. if one say the bible is the TRUTH, and God's Holy Word, lets behave in that manner.

Evidence #1.
Acts 2:31 "He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption."
Acts 2:32 "This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses."

here is a WITNESS to the TRUTH. do we acknowledge this witness as TRUE? if So witness #2.

John 2:18 "Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?"
John 2:19 "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
John 2:20 "Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?"
John 2:21 "But he spake of the temple of his body."

now, either we have a serious contridiction in the bible or Jesus is God himself. for,
A. scripture don't lie
B. scripture don't change.

now did the apostle Peter lied in quoting what he said? I say no. or
is the bible telling us that God is JESUS in flesh.

if anyone have any explanation showing that JESUS is not the one who, "Raised up that body" as the apostle Peter is referring to as God in Acts 2:32. if anyone have a separate person who raised up the Body of the Lord Jesus other than the Lord Jesus himself, please post it.

PICJAG.

 

[Truther]

America is ONE
.​

One what?

 

[Truther]

GINOLJC, to all.



you said, "The Holy Ghost is God's Spirit"
so it's two Spirits Now? for out of your own mouth quoting scripture, "God is a Spirit". and now the Holy Spirit is God Spirit?

Now you're finally getting some stability, with ERRORS, for you still have to account for the two Spirits you claim.

but, let's get to this man .... :cool: Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
now Truther, is this man "EQUAL" with God as "Spirit? remember "Form" here means NATURE, and God is a Spirit. and Jesus have the SAME EQUAL NATURE. so now Truther you have three Spirit to deal with now. A. God who is a Spirit, and B. the Holy Spirit whom you say is God's Spirit, and Now you have, C. Jesus who nature is Spirit. you need to reconcicle all these three Spirits. for you said Paul only acknowledge two entities... well now YOU have Three?

PICJAG.

Yes, 2 S(sp)irits.

All of the Spirit of God fully indwelling the spirit body of the spirit man, Christ Jesus.

And yes, a spirit has a body...it is a spirit body...


40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


So, this is what the Godhead consists of now....

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

...God and the spirit man, Jesus.

 

[Truther]

I cannot be bothered. All of this is too silly for words.
.

What is silly?

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;



....knowing that only God and the man Christ Jesus are what the Godhead is comprised of?

 

[101G]

Yes, 2 S(sp)irits.

All of the Spirit of God fully indwelling the spirit body of the spirit man, Christ Jesus.

And yes, a spirit has a body...it is a spirit body...


40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.


So, this is what the Godhead consists of now....

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

...God and the spirit man, Jesus.

ONLY ONE, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"

that just killed you statement of two Spirit. you have a false belief from the TRUTH.

see ya.

PICJAG

 

[tigger 2]

Reply to post 208:

“I Will Raise It Up” - John 2:19

In English we use “rise” and “raise” with two distinctly different meanings. “Rise” is what a person or thing does by itself to itself: “I rise every morning at dawn;” “the sun will rise soon.”

“Raise,” on the other hand, is what a person does to some other object or person: “He raised the flag.” “The flag was raised.” The object does not “rise” by itself in this case, but is actually “raised” by someone else! If “raise” is to be used with one’s own self as the object, it usually is so stated or plainly understood: “I raised myself so I could see better”!

An examination of all the passages dealing with Christ’s resurrection shows that this is also the intent of nearly all of them. Therefore, when we see “God, having raised up his servant” (Acts 3:26, RSV), we understand God as being one person who raised up someone else (His servant, Jesus). And at Gal. 1:1 we see - “God the Father, who raised [Jesus Christ] from the dead.”

The noted trinitarian NT Greek expert Dr. Alfred Marshall writes:

“our Lord ‘was raised’ as are the dead generally (they do not ‘rise’). See 1 Corinthians ch. 15, etc.” - p. xxxvi, The Zondervan Parallel New Testament in Greek and English, 1980.

We also see at Eph. 1:17, 19, 20 -

“that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of Glory ..., according to the working of his great might which he accomplished in Christ when he raised him from the dead and made him sit at his right hand [cf. Ps. 110:1, 2; Acts 2:34-36; and Ro. 8:34] in the heavenly places” - RSV.

And 1 Thess. 1:9, 10 -

“how you turned to God from idols to serve a living and true God [John 17:3] and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus” - RSV. Also see Acts 10:40; 13:30, 33, 34, 37; Ro. 4:24; 6:4; 8:11; 10:9; 1 Cor. 6:14; 2 Cor. 4:14; Col. 2:12; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:20; 1 Peter 1:21; etc.

Probably the only place you could find where there appears to be a statement that the Son raised himself (in contrast to the many scriptures to the contrary) would be John 2:19-22.

John 2:19, 21, 22 -

“Jesus answered them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.’ .... But he spoke of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised [not ‘he raised himself’] from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this.” - RSV.

Rather than ignoring this scripture, since at first glance it seems to contradict all the many others about Jesus being raised up by the Father alone, we should make every attempt to understand it in agreement with the other scriptures on the subject.

Obviously Jesus was speaking figuratively here, whereas the other scriptures concerning his being raised are to be understood literally. Figurative Bible language often leads to difficulties in interpretation.

However, Jesus was speaking figuratively of his actual body which his enemies really did destroy (“destroy this temple and ...”). Therefore, one understanding might be that Jesus was merely stating that after the Father had already returned Jesus’ life to a body (“raised” him to life) Jesus was then physically able to raise up that life-filled body: He literally was able to raise himself to his feet again; he raised his own body up from a prone position!

Another possibility could be that because of his perfect faithfulness and obedience to God, Jesus himself provided the moral basis for the Father to raise him from the dead. It might be said that, in a sense, because of his faithful course in life, Jesus himself was responsible for God’s resurrection of him.

A similar style of expression may be seen at Luke 8:48 when Jesus had healed a woman he said to her: “Your faith has made you well.” Did she actually heal herself, then? No; it was power from God the Father through Christ that healed her because of her faith!

Even noted trinitarian NT Greek scholar A. T. Robertson tells us

“Recall [John] 2:19 where Jesus said: ‘And in three days I will raise it up.’ He did not mean that he will raise himself independently of the Father as the active agent (Rom. 8:11).” - Word Pictures in the New Testament, Vol. v, p. 183.

Whatever the answer to any possible confusion generated from this single figurative usage at John 2:19, we must not ignore the overwhelming number of literal statements which clearly state that the Father alone actually raised Jesus to life.

 

[Truther]

ONLY ONE, Ephesians 4:4 "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;"

that just killed you statement of two Spirit. you have a false belief from the TRUTH.

see ya.

PICJAG

You forgot about the man....

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Cooper]

One what?

If you knew how many gods the Israelites worshipped, before they changed from polytheism to monotheism you might understand why Moses said, "God is one."

America is one nation and God is one God. In the days of Moses when he tried to stamp out their idol worship, people would have understood he was saying there is only One God and not the pantheon of gods they had always worshipped.

There is One America and there is One God.

This was thousands of years before Christ, so has nothing to do with the trinity.

When the pre-incarnate Jesus did make himself known to Moses, he appeared as the I AM.

The I AM is 1 One. The I AM is the God of the Jews. This message was given by divine inspiration to the Jews who failed to understand, and instead they use it thousands of years later against the One and only God who came on purpose to redeem them from their sins which only God can do. Apart from the remnant, they remain lost to this day, until they understand Jesus is the One God, with us in the flesh. Jesus, is the I AM and said "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" restating the Shema. They knew what he meant and took up stones to kill him because he claimed to be God.
.

 

[Truther]

If you knew how many gods the Israelites worshipped, before they changed from polytheism to monotheism you might understand why Moses said, "God is one."

America is one nation and God is one God. In the days of Moses when he tried to stamp out their idol worship, people would have understood he was saying there is only One God and not the pantheon of gods they had always worshipped.

There is One America and there is One God.

This was thousands of years before Christ, so has nothing to do with the trinity.

When the pre-incarnate Jesus did make himself known to Moses, he appeared as the I AM.

The I AM is 1 One. The I AM is the God of the Jews. This message was given by divine inspiration to the Jews who failed to understand, and instead they use it thousands of years later against the One and only God who came on purpose to redeem them from their sins which only God can do. Apart from the remnant, they remain lost to this day, until they understand Jesus is the One God, with us in the flesh. Jesus, is the I AM and said "I AND THE FATHER ARE ONE" restating the Shema. They knew what he meant and took up stones to kill him because he claimed to be God.
.

Did you know how Jesus and his God are(were) one?

Jesus had his God inside him, via the Holy Ghost.

Jesus even said in a prayer to his God per John, that he prayed the disciples would be one, even as the Father and the son are one.

Jesus was simply saying we, including himself, are one in God via the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Not that he was the exact same being as God, nor are we(read carefully)....


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;



.....AKA, the Holy Ghost is God inside Christ(Col 2:9), inside us.

 

[Cooper]

Did you know how Jesus and his God are(were) one?

Jesus had his God inside him, via the Holy Ghost.

Jesus even said in a prayer to his God per John, that he prayed the disciples would be one, even as the Father and the son are one.

Jesus was simply saying we, including himself, are one in God via the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

Not that he was the exact same being as God, nor are we(read carefully)....


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one;



.....AKA, the Holy Ghost is God inside Christ(Col 2:9), inside us.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: John 17:22

The unity between believers is spiritual. We do not have that unity between us. Followed by the glory of resurrection and ascension. This is still to come, for believers.

The unity of Jesus with the Father is physical.
.

 

[theophilus]

Whatever the answer to any possible confusion generated from this single figurative usage at John 2:19, we must not ignore the overwhelming number of literal statements which clearly state that the Father alone actually raised Jesus to life.

The Father raised Jesus. Jesus also raised himself.

For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.
John 10:17,18 ESV

The Bible also says that the Holy Spirit raised Jesus.

If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you.
Romans 8:11 ESV

All three members of the Trinity were involved in the resurrection of Jesus.

 

[Truther]

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: John 17:22

The unity between believers is spiritual. We do not have that unity between us. Followed by the glory of resurrection and ascension. This is still to come, for believers.

The unity of Jesus with the Father is physical.
.

The unity Jesus had with his Father is the Spirit of his Father residing in his body.

Jesus was praying that we have that same oneness as they have, not a different oneness(unity).

Jesus was praying that they would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost like he received from his Father, so we all could be one.

That is precisely what this says...


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one....

 

[Cooper]

The unity Jesus had with his Father is the Spirit of his Father residing in his body.

Jesus was praying that we have that same oneness as they have, not a different oneness(unity).

Jesus was praying that they would receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost like he received from his Father, so we all could be one.

That is precisely what this says...


21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one....

I was hoping you would say the unity between Father and Son was both spiritual and physical. It is.

Do you know what you have just done? You have proved Father and Son are inseparably ONE.

Amen. In Jesus, we have Father, Son and Holy Spirit. God is ONE.

And, you should be proud of yourself here, you have got there by your own reasoning. Wonderful. God bless.
.