Did Jesus claim to be God?

[101G]

Dont worry, many have trouble grasping it. For myself, I understand that Jesus is God but I do not understand the Holy Spirit being something other than God, because it says God is Spirit. And I think this Spirit that God is IS the Holy Spirit. So my mind grasps a bi-nity more than a trinity.

BINGO that he is, you're correct. the ONLY PERSON in the GODHEAD is JESUS who is the HOLY GHOST diversified. meaning that he is the "ANOTHER" of himself, "SHARED", in flesh.

you're on the right road.

PICJAG.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I dont really take too much concern for it. I only become concerned if someone says Jesus is not God. If you do not say Jesus is Lord, it could be you just dont understand, but then if you try to convince others of it, I am terrified for you.

When I first came to God, I actually said this, believe it or not - I love you Jesus but I do not like God for what He allowed to happen to You, so I will just talk to you.

Imagine my surprise then, when reading the beginning of John again one day, I learned that Jesus WAS God...!

 

[101G]

I dont really take too much concern for it. I only become concerned if someone says Jesus is not God. If you do not say Jesus is Lord, it could be you just dont understand, but then if you try to convince others of it, I am terrified for you.

When I first came to God, I actually said this, believe it or not - I love you Jesus but I do not like God, so I will just talk to you.

Imagine my surprise then, when reading the beginning of John again one day, I learned that Jesus WAS God...!

(smile), everyone have a diffrent approach to God.... that's a good one there. .... (smile)
this is what the Lord Jesus, God loves, innocent, unbridled.

and when one gets to know God, wow all the fun one have been missing with our heavenly Father. I know what you mean. when I found out, what an eye opener it was for me too.

PICJAG.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Let's not forget that 1 John 5:7 in the KJV (and those few still using the same out-dated text) is clearly spurious. Look it up. That's why most Bibles today omit it.

Come off it, most bibles today are rubbish. the AKJV is much better than other bible nowadays.

AKJV says 5:7 For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Then you go to 8 as to on earth that do such.

 

[Truther]

Truther, Truther, Truther. JESUS don't have a mother, nor father, biologically or anything else. HE IS GOD. did God impregnate anyone to bring Adam into existance?, or who did God impregnate to bring the entire universe into being? see Truther, you're thinking NATRUAL between a male and a female. God can speak and the stars shine. do you reall believe that God need to come down from heaven and be the stud of the year on someone cover of a magazine? NO, ... by impregnating a creature woman whom he made? are you kidding? listen to the scriptures, Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God."

do you know what "overshadow" here means? it's the Greek word,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

"to invest with preternatural influence", what do preternatural means? not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women. listen, the body is only conceived by a woman, not any spirit. only the body of flesh is conceived in the womb, not spirits.

understand, Jesus the Spirit, was not conceived, only his body that he came in, which was already prepared before he came. so no egg, nor sperm from any man or woman was used. Mary only "birthed" the body that GOD came in. Truther you should have alredy known this, it's basic bible study.

understand, GOD can just speak and it is, just read the creation account. .... "and God SAID" on and on......... God who is a Spirit don't need to lay with a woman to beget children, did you not hear John the baptist, Matthew 3:9 "And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham." ok, get a sperm or an egg out of a stone.... do you understand now.

so no, Jesus did not impregnate Mary by means of the natural way, (sperm & egg). NO, Mary was only a surrogate mother who just only brought forth/birith the flesh that was in her. for that flesh was already prepared, listen, Hebrews 10:5 "Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:" this is what JESUS said of his "OWN" body before he came, Psalms 40:6 "Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required."
Psalms 40:7 "Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"

see, this is Jesus in the OT as "GOD", the Spirit prophesying, as 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 states of his coming. BINGO.

NOT "diversified Oneness"...

NOT "diversified Oneness"...

NOT "diversified Oneness"... he is her "CREATOR".

you said that, not me, we teach God is a "DIVERSITY" of himself in flesh, and that "DIVERSITY", is the EQUAL share, called the "OFFSPRING....


see it's hard for people to accept what they have never heard before, like in the .......................... TRUTH.
our Lord said it best, Mark 16:17 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;" see, a new tongue is not an unknown tongue, nor another tongue, it's neither. but a NEW TONGUE, is a tongue that one have not heard before, because they have not heard the TRUTH before. no need to get upset with 101G, just do your ... christian duty and prove 101G wrong. that's if you're right yourself..... as the scriptures states "prove all things and hold fast that which is Good". so it's just that simple, prove 101G wrong... or...


PICJAG.

You just explained that Jesus was not the son of man or the son of David.(Mary is not His biological mother).

You debunked Jesus thoroughly.

Jesus is flabbergasted to find out he is not the son of man or the son of David.

 

[Cooper]

III. Jesus Christ Claims to be God

Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.

Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you.."

Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.

Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.

Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.

Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.

Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them."

Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.

Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.

Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.

Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.

Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.

Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.

John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.

John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.

John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."

John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."

John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." - 1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.

John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."

John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.

John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM." Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.

John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again - Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.

John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.

John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."

John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.

John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.

John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."

John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.

John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.

John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."

John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.

John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."

Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.

Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.

Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Dont worry, many have trouble grasping it. For myself, I understand that Jesus is God but I do not understand the Holy Spirit being something other than God, because it says God is Spirit. And I think this Spirit that God is IS the Holy Spirit. So my mind grasps a bi-nity more than a trinity.

True, it does say that God is Spirit. It also says that God created man in his own image.

As for Jesus, i can't help remembering the times when he refers to God as a separate entity
Like when the disciples ask Him when and he says that only the Father knows.
When he prays to God in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross when He says "why have u abandoned me"
I know u said that the word abandoned might mean something else but even so Jesus is still speaking to God as another entity

He repeatedly calls himself the Son of God, a Father and a Son. In human terms that can only be two people.
But this isn't human terms so I just have to submit my ignorance to God and put my faith in Him

 

[Cooper]

True, it does say that God is Spirit. It also says that God created man in his own image.

As for Jesus, i can't help remembering the times when he refers to God as a separate entity
Like when the disciples ask Him when and he says that only the Father knows.
When he prays to God in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross when He says "why have u abandoned me"
I know u said that the word abandoned might mean something else but even so Jesus is still speaking to God as another entity

He repeatedly calls himself the Son of God, a Father and a Son. In human terms that can only be two people.
But this isn't human terms so I just have to submit my ignorance to God and put my faith in Him

The beauty of Jesus is that He is both fully man and fully God. As Man, he took our sins upon himself and paid the penalty, and as God He forgave us our sins.
.

 

[Brakelite]

Why would you say that theophilus? There is not a trinitarian in the world that hasn't asked the exact same questions that @Cristo Rei did. Not a single person can accuse him of being difficult, ...if they were sincere. You're showing your bias and incompetence on the matter, by accusing someone of denial because they asked the most requisite and pertinent questions. For, I would accuse him of credulity if he didn't pose those axiomatic questions.
You are the only one going to great lengths to justify the unjustifiable, and stubbornly and blindly adhering to the unfathomable and incomprehensible.

Well said. The Godhead is clearly s composite of the Father, the Son, both of which have a spirit which is undoubtedly holy. Whether the spirit is shared... Independently possessed... Or a separate individual bring altogether is a matter of debate... And no one in all of Christendom over the previous 2000 years has been able to explain in any way that reveals they understand the nature of their composition, nor in any way that anyone else can understand.
The more important debate we often witness is concerning the deity...or not... Of the Son. What did the Jews mean when they said Jesus was claiming to be equal to God by claiming to be His Son? Didn't they claim to be children if God? Yes, they did. So Jesus claim was on another level. He wasn't adopted. He wasn't created. He was claiming natural sonship. A sonship that was in existence prior to the incarnation. The Jews recognised that. And the only conclusion they could draw from that information was that Jesus was claiming to be a natural supernatural deity.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Why would you say that theophilus? There is not a trinitarian in the world that hasn't asked the exact same questions that @Cristo Rei did. Not a single person can accuse him of being difficult, ...if they were sincere. You're showing your bias and incompetence on the matter, by accusing someone of denial because they asked the most requisite and pertinent questions. For, I would accuse him of credulity if he didn't pose those axiomatic questions.
You are the only one going to great lengths to justify the unjustifiable, and stubbornly and blindly adhering to the unfathomable and incomprehensible.

The best way to learn is to ask questions.
A person can sometimes use a line of questioning that becomes critical of God, they should be reminded. I try my best not to fall into this trap

I think us humans can get caught up in trying to explain things that we don't really understand
There is nothing wrong with saying "God, i just don't know, so I put my faith in you"
I actually love saying that, i feel humble when i do, submitting to God and admitting that my intelligence is but a fraction of Gods wonder

 

[DNB]

The best way to learn is to ask questions.
A person can sometimes use a line of questioning that becomes critical of God, they should be reminded. I try my best not to fall into this trap

I think us humans can get caught up in trying to explain things that we don't really understand
There is nothing wrong with saying "God, i just don't know, so I put my faith in you"
I actually love saying that, i feel humble when i do, submitting to God and admitting that my intelligence is but a fraction of Gods wonder

You're right CR, and what you said relates even to most simplest of matters. Now, what about someone making the proposition of a god-man, a trinity, 3 = 1 & 1 = 3, etc... Especially when not a single of either these, expressions or principles are found from anywhere within the Bible? Who will be indignant if someone asks questions in regards to this enigma (only a biased fool)? They have truly bastardized the meaning of faith!

 

[DNB]

Well said. The Godhead is clearly s composite of the Father, the Son, both of which have a spirit which is undoubtedly holy. Whether the spirit is shared... Independently possessed... Or a separate individual bring altogether is a matter of debate... And no one in all of Christendom over the previous 2000 years has been able to explain in any way that reveals they understand the nature of their composition, nor in any way that anyone else can understand.
The more important debate we often witness is concerning the deity...or not... Of the Son. What did the Jews mean when they said Jesus was claiming to be equal to God by claiming to be His Son? Didn't they claim to be children if God? Yes, they did. So Jesus claim was on another level. He wasn't adopted. He wasn't created. He was claiming natural sonship. A sonship that was in existence prior to the incarnation. The Jews recognised that. And the only conclusion they could draw from that information was that Jesus was claiming to be a natural supernatural deity.

Interesting BL2, but I'm not sure if I understood all that you had asserted, but sorry, I don't concur if I've made the right assessment about your position?
I think that Jesus was created, and had no existence or consciousness prior to his corporeal birth around 4BC. But earned his sonship by attaining to perfection according to the Law, namely, loving God with all his heart, mind, body and soul (God can neither obey nor love himself in any kind of meaningful or sensible manner).

 

[Cooper]

If God is body, soul and spirit, why can't we be in His image?

 

[101G]

You just explained that Jesus was not the son of man or the son of David.(Mary is not His biological mother).

You debunked Jesus thoroughly.

Jesus is flabbergasted to find out he is not the son of man or the son of David.

GINOLJC, to all.
ERROR again on your Part. I never explain Jesus was not the Son of Man. it's your lack of Knowledge as to who the Son of Man is, and not knowing the Son of God.... (smile). as a matter of Fact I Glorified our Lord as "GOD". and YES, JESUS is not the biological son of Mary.... JESUS has no mother nor father, and I'll say it again, Jesus has no NATURAL, BIOLOGICAL, mother or daddy. are we clear on that.

it is you who said Jesus is not the Son of Man, check my post ANYWHERE and point it out to me where I said Jesus is not the Son of Man .... well?


it you you who refuse to accept the truth that Jesus is both Lord and God, just ask Thomas..... (smile).

see truther, 1 Peter 1:10 & 11 just hit you in the backside .... didn't it. just as this one will too. 2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." ... WHY apostle Peter?
2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

the same Holy Ghost which was IN, IN, IN, them as the apostle Peter said in 1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

THE "SPIRIT OF CHRIST" IS THE HOLY SPIRIT. yes Jesus the Christ was in the prophets of old, testifying of his coming.

oh how easy the bible is when one KNOW and UNDERSTAND the TRUTH.

PICJAG

 

[theophilus]

Jesus did not claim to be God until after resurrecting, when he was officially made God.

My post shows that he claimed to be God before his crucifixion and resurrection. John reveals that he was God even before he was born and became a man.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1:1-3 ESV

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 ESV

 

[101G]

The Godhead is clearly s composite of the Father, the Son, both of which have a spirit which is undoubtedly holy. Whether the spirit is shared... Independently possessed... Or a separate individual bring altogether is a matter of debate... And no one in all of Christendom over the previous 2000 years has been able to explain in any way that reveals they understand the nature of their composition, nor in any way that anyone else can understand.

first, thanks for that post, but did not the bible say we can know the Godhead? Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them."
Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:"

so there is no excuse of not knowing.

May I ask you this, and you hit it on the head clearly you said, "Whether the spirit is shared... Independently possessed". God said, "come, let us reason together", so I ask, can we reason on something that you said. if there are three persons in the Godhead, and one of the person came, or manifested in flesh, and they are of ONE Spirit, question, "did all of the Spirit come in the flesh or some, or part of the Spirit?". now let's reason.
if part of the Spirit came and Manifested, then God is divided, for that would be an echad, (in parts). just as separation of Persons. and God is not divided. also if some of God was manifested, or came, then that's not God because he is not some of himself. for Philippians 2:6 clearly state that the Spirit is EQUAL with. "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"

so who came is "EQUAL" in Spirit, not Person, but "Spirit", for the term "Form" means "NATURE, for it's the Greek word,
G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

so we can see that the person who cam is the Spirit in Nature that is "EQUAL" with. so by deductive reasoning who came was all of God. and that right there is a problem for the trinitarians, for they say only one PERSON came. if so now one has a bigger problem. because if all of the Spirit came and manifested in that body, then A. all three so-called person would had to come or if someone was left behind then God is split, or as some said "separate, or one has a piece of God divided up, and again Philippians 2:6 clearly state that the Spirit is EQUAL. so that want fly.

but you said this, ""Whether the spirit is shared", now this is what I want to reason on. for he who came "shared" WITH the Spirit equally. the term I want to use is "ANOTHER", it the Grek word G243 Allos, and according to the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words it maeans, "Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort". meaning the same one person, "shared", himself "EQUALLY" in Flesh. by doing this, he can come and be in a body of flesh, and yet fill heaven and Earth as always.

if you will take a look at the term "Form" again in Phil 2:6, and consider it root word. which is,
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).

and if one look up the word "portion" they would find it is synonyms, or another word for "SHARE".

see my REASONING now?. JESUS, the Holy Spirit is the "EQUAL" Share of himself in flesh.

now for my reason for this "sharing" vs seperation. in Philippians 2:6 it states that he who came is "equal" ... WITH ... God who is Spirit. but the bible states this, Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One." or this, Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?" so ther is no one equal "with" God but God himself.

so your point "share" is correct. this is my reasoning.

PICJAG.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

True, it does say that God is Spirit. It also says that God created man in his own image.

As for Jesus, i can't help remembering the times when he refers to God as a separate entity
Like when the disciples ask Him when and he says that only the Father knows.
When he prays to God in the garden of Gethsemane and on the cross when He says "why have u abandoned me"
I know u said that the word abandoned might mean something else but even so Jesus is still speaking to God as another entity

He repeatedly calls himself the Son of God, a Father and a Son. In human terms that can only be two people.
But this isn't human terms so I just have to submit my ignorance to God and put my faith in Him

There are always verses in tension to other verses. The whole bible is this way.

Eg: ask anything in My name and I will do it
Versus
You ask and dont receive because...

Prosperity gospel takes the 1st verse without the balance the 2nd verse gives. But BOTH verses are true and both together give a man balance in the truth.

And concerning Jesus, it is the same. The verses you mention are true and also it is true when John says He was in the beginning with God and He WAS God. And it is true what the prophet said, that we would call Him Emmanuel, God with us, and mighty God.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The best way to learn is to ask questions.
A person can sometimes use a line of questioning that becomes critical of God, they should be reminded. I try my best not to fall into this trap

I think us humans can get caught up in trying to explain things that we don't really understand
There is nothing wrong with saying "God, i just don't know, so I put my faith in you"
I actually love saying that, i feel humble when i do, submitting to God and admitting that my intelligence is but a fraction of Gods wonder

This is the second post by you that has made me weep.This kind of...winsome humility can only come from My Lord. It's as if I can smell Him on you. You have greatly encouraged me this afternoon.

 

[Helen]

Jesus did not claim to be God until after resurrecting, when he was officially made God.

Ouch!
Is that some new doctrine that you came up with?

When they came to capture Him in the Garden, why did they all "fall back" when they asked which on was Jesus and He answered "I AM" using His God name ...and it say "they fell back"...

Just saying...

 

[APAK]

Interesting BL2, but I'm not sure if I understood all that you had asserted, but sorry, I don't concur if I've made the right assessment?
I think that Jesus was created, and had no existence or consciousness prior to his corporeal birth around 4BC. But earned his sonship by attaining to perfection according to the Law, namely, loving God with all his heart, mind, body and soul (God cannot neither obey or love himself in any kind of meaningful or sensible manner).

Yes,..... YHWH, the one and only creator cannot just give his divine nature to any of his creations, even to his created Son, the 2nd and last Adam. This sole source of divinity can never transfer, ever. And YHWH never just 'sliced a piece of himself off' and called it his divine Son.

The pharisees did not want Jesus stoned for being divine at all. They knew this was impossible because they knew YHWH was the only divine Spirit in existence. Jesus told the pharisees in various ways and acts he was born as the true Son of YHWH, as his Father. The pharisees had Abraham as their Father and he was inferior to YHWH in every way. So we see the anger festering inside of these pharisees. Jesus had the ultimate Father, YHWH!

The pharisees knew that Jesus was saying he was 'higher' than they and even their first Father, Abraham per scripture. This they could not tolerate and therefore they called Jesus a blasphemer. He was placing himself over Abraham and therefore on equal footing with YHWH.

They felt inferior and enraged with a pride that was rich; never would they be a servant to or praise Yahshua, the true Son of their focus of worship, YHWH. The pharisees actually 'killed themselves', committed suicide spiritually, with their words and acts..all the way to the cross, and even long afterwards.

APAK