Fear God or Presume acceptance

[CharismaticLady]

I've begun saying "trust" as the verb for "faith", hoping to make a more clear distinction.

Much love!

So aren't you going to keep saying if something is not of faith it is sin? How would you say that now? Explain what you mean. I'm not finding fault; there is a reason for my question. In my own past I had faith something was not sin, that I now believe was. I felt no shame or guilt, because for a short time, I was believing a false teaching. Not only that, but it didn't stop God from talking to me or doing miracles for me. Could that be a willful trespass? Just to be on the safe side, I've now repented and asked forgiveness for my ignorance. But I'm still not sure that ignorance of sin will not condemn us? What do you think?

Edit: Wow! I just woke up (2:44 am) and God spoke to me the answer on why my sin didn't separate me from God; that while in the midst of my sin, He still spoke to me and performed the greatest miracle to date He's ever done for me. It was because He saw me overcoming that sin and will die righteous and holy - His requirement for heaven. I love when He does this. I wrote a book based on all the things He told me when I first wake up.

Just went back to bed and He gave me some more on the same subject. He doesn't see us as sinners, but as overcomers through His foreknowledge. This is why some people never hear His voice. His future foreknowledge sees them dying in unrepentant sins. This is also why the last church age, Laodecia, where Christ is on the outside, He still sees them as part of His church, and they do not receive the strong delusion that other unbelievers will receive when the Antichrist is revealed. They will become martyrs for Him! The greatest work we can do for Him is laying down our life.

Therefore, there is some merit in the OSAS doctrine, but the truth is, He is not looking at us from the beginning, but what state He sees us in at the end. For only the righteous and holy will enter heaven. It is why in the letters to the seven churches, the common word in each age is "overcomer."

 

[mjrhealth]

The answer: You are defending sin!

I don’t know how much plainer God can make it! The wages of sin is death! Wages are what we earn. In life, we work for wages on a job, which gives us money. In the spiritual realm, God says that we earn spiritual wages. “His servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness.” (Rom. 6:16). “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God,…” (1 Jn. 3:10). “For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.” (Rom. 8:6). “Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not after the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Rom. 8: 12-13). “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezek. 18:4). “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned” in his sin that he hath sinned, in them he shall die.” (Ezek. 18:24) Shame on the person who would discard God’s words on the issue by shoving it all off as something from the past that does not apply to Christians today! It is confirmed in the New Testament as well as the Old. “But every man is tempted, when he drawn is away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. Do not err brethren.” (James 1:15).

The wages of sin is death, whether you claim to be a Christian or not! Sin is sin, and the wages of sin is death. The atonement did not change the nature of sin so it longer damns, it changes the nature of the believer so they do not sin!

I dont know what is is you think God is.

It is funny how when you where not "saved" sin was the furthest thing from your mind, now that you have become "saved" it should be the furthest thing form you mind yet it seems to weigh heavily on your conscience. SO what the problem. What is it about God you do not understand, He isnt a bad father like so many make Him out to be, who seems to have all these spoiled children fighting for His attention. Jesus died so we could be free, not to sin as all the perfectionist claim but so we could live without worry, yet all the perfectionist worry about being perfect. Something like this.

Mat_23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

Are you sure you are not SDA they claim the same but by the law, all just boasting. Should I repeat.

Luk 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Luk 18:13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
Luk 18:14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

We are justifed by one thing only, that is the works that Christ has done and our Faith to believe in Him, no more no less.

There is only one thing that please God

Heb_11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

everything outside that is self and selfishness.

No one will boast, not one.

 

[mjrhealth]

The answer: You are defending sin!

Actually im defending Grace, you know this bit

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

and this bit

Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus

and again

Rom_5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom_11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

 

[mjrhealth]

Do you believe we can attain to the full stature of Christ...the perfect man? Or do you need bible references?

So are you saying you are perfect.??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I wonder what the Bible says?

I know what the bible says

I also know you can not show us how you live or practice what you preach

Until then, there is nothing further to discuss

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So sexual sin is not a separate category from other willful sins of lawlessness. (Against God's written laws.)

Your irritation at your wife I would consider a trespass. Recently I came to the realization that not all trespasses are unintentional. So there are now three categories that I see.

Sins unto death
Willful sins of lawlessness

Sins not unto death
Willful trespasses
Unintentional trespasses

I see it different

I see sins unto death

1. drunk driving - end up finding death, and taking a few other lives with you - murder
2. taking drugs - Overdose, which causes death
3. Sexual immorality, which leads to a sexual disease which causes death
4. armed or unarmed robbery, where the sinner is killed in the act of committing the sin

I see that when we see a person commit the following sins, which do not lead to death,

Examples of such are

1. Drunk Driving, Which did not lead to death
2. Taking drugs, Which did not lead to death
3. Sexual immorality, Which did not lead to death
4. Armed or unarmed robbery, which did not lead to death

Now when it comes to spiritual death

I see this

The penalty of sin is death.......

All sin leads to death, The curse of the law. being death, is given for the smallest of sins, if we keep the whole law yet stumble (it was not even on purpose, but a stumble) we are found guilty of the law.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I prefer not to use the word "grace" or "faith" by themselves in posting because of the generalized definition they have been given. You ask anybody and 9 times out of 10 they will say grace is unmerited favor, and place on that a further belief that past, present and future sins are all forgiven, when 2 Peter 1:9 declares that only our past sins were forgiven. That would mean that it is a given that a Christian has no power not to sin; and will sin willfully presently and in the future. But no where is that taught. If one is truly born again, they have power not to sin from that moment. Paul tries to correct people by calling them carnal babes, or seduced by false doctrines as in Galatians, but in doing so he is warning them that they have stepped off the road to salvation and need to truly repent. Salvation is the end product of those who become unwaveringly righteous and holy. Revelation 22:11

And "faith" can be semantically replaced with "believe" and even the demons believe and tremble.

All of your sins were future sins when Christ died

2 Peter is showing us that certain people have forgotten and allowing their past to affect them, Because they have forgotten all those sins were forgiven, It does not say only they were forgiven

Rev 22 is showing who are born again, vs who are not. Gods children, as new creatures, are those who practice righteousness. Those who are not born again are those who practice sin, As John says in his 1st epistle. Those who sin have never seen or known God.. Those norn of God can not sin.

If your future sin was not paid on the cross. You are in serious danger, for you have no hope

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I've begun saying "trust" as the verb for "faith", hoping to make a more clear distinction.

Much love!

we have forgotten what the true meaning of that word is.. Its sad

 

[Episkopos]

So are you saying you are perfect.??

Are you obsessed with self? You are only focusing on the natural man....not the heavenly gift (grace). So really you are stuck on the law without understanding grace. I'm saying that in truth and experientially...Jesus Christ is perfect. He is our perfection. Walk in Him. We are the containers...but He is the life. That is the truth...and the testimony of they who are no longer under the law....in reality. Jesus Christ brings truth and reality to a relationship with God. Otherwise it is all just assumptions and presumptions.

It is the carnal idea of Jesus that has no power but in the mind of the one doing the imagining (belief). It is just the imagination at work. And if you get the imagination mixed in with religious ideology...you get the present state of claiming to be saved by beliefs about Jesus...with the intellect...but not in experience. God will not edify the intellect. So it is futile to try grasping onto God with the carnal mind. God does the impossible...and the mind can't handle that...unless it becomes childlike in faith. But you have by-passed that in order to try approaching God as an adult carnal man. That's NOT the way.

So rather than go deeper into unbelief and deny the experience of the gospel to others...thus preaching an "anti-gospel"...leave room for the mystery of God. Or do you not believe that with God ALL things are possible? Become like a child in wonder and expectation. Unless you lose the dogmatic rigidity of a supposed clear thinking...you will remain as you are...and God will not translate you into that closer walk. It takes faith...not disbelief. Become as a fool to become wise.

 

[Candidus]

All of your sins were future sins when Christ died

2 Peter is showing us that certain people have forgotten and allowing their past to affect them, Because they have forgotten all those sins were forgiven, It does not say only they were forgiven

Rev 22 is showing who are born again, vs who are not. Gods children, as new creatures, are those who practice righteousness. Those who are not born again are those who practice sin, As John says in his 1st epistle. Those who sin have never seen or known God.. Those norn of God can not sin.

If your future sin was not paid on the cross. You are in serious danger, for you have no hope

Then you have no hope! No sin was ever paid for! The Bible never says that! Why would you hang your hope on a theory that you cannot find stated in Scripture?

You say, "All of you sins were future sins when Christ died..." The truth is, your future sins did not exist!

You reveal what you are basing your theology on... "If your future sin was not paid on the cross..." This is the assumption that you hold dearer than Scripture itself, and you are forcing that conclusion on every passage in the Bible that you read. That's the real "danger"!

 

[Episkopos]

we have forgotten what the true meaning of that word is.. Its sad

We can trust that God will judge all men according to their works. Now is the time for grace...but on judgment day it will be only works that will be made manifest. It will be about what we have done with what we have been given.

And the surprise of many will be great. Especially they who assumed and presumed their way through life.

 

[Candidus]

We can trust that God will judge all men according to their works. Now is the time for grace...but on judgment day it will be only works that will be made manifest. It will be about what we have done with what we have been given.

And the surprise of many will be great. Especially they who assumed and presumed their way through life.

Yet so many people believe that they will be Judged on their "faith," even their dead faith!

Will God be judging us according to our faith? The Bible is clear on this issue without exception. Jesus said, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good to the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, to the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28-29. Paul writes that God "Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing, seek for glory, and honor, and immortality; eternal life." Romans 2:6-7. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that every one may receive the things done in the body, according to that he hath done, whether good or bad." 2 Cor. 5:9-10. Notice that we will receive according to what is done, and not according to what we believed. Peter asserts, that the Father, "without respect of persons, judgeth according to every man's work." 1 Peter 1:17. And St. John concludes with these formidable words: "And the dead were judged out of the things written in the books, according to their works." Rev. 22:12. Observe that it is not once said, "according to their faith."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Are you obsessed with self? You are only focusing on the natural man....not the heavenly gift (grace). So really you are stuck on the law without understanding grace. I'm saying that in truth and experientially...Jesus Christ is perfect. He is our perfection. Walk in Him. We are the containers...but He is the life. That is the truth...and the testimony of they who are no longer under the law....in reality. Jesus Christ brings truth and reality to a relationship with God. Otherwise it is all just assumptions and presumptions.

It is the carnal idea of Jesus that has no power but in the mind of the one doing the imagining (belief). It is just the imagination at work. And if you get the imagination mixed in with religious ideology...you get the present state of claiming to be saved by beliefs about Jesus...with the intellect...but not in experience. God will not edify the intellect. So it is futile to try grasping onto God with the carnal mind. God does the impossible...and the mind can't handle that...unless it becomes childlike in faith. But you have by-passed that in order to try approaching God as an adult carnal man. That's NOT the way.

So rather than go deeper into unbelief and deny the experience of the gospel to others...thus preaching an "anti-gospel"...leave room for the mystery of God. Or do you not believe that with God ALL things are possible? Become like a child in wonder and expectation. Unless you lose the dogmatic rigidity of a supposed clear thinking...you will remain as you are...and God will not translate you into that closer walk. It takes faith...not disbelief. Become as a fool to become wise.

once again

are you perfect?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Then you have no hope! No sin was ever paid for! The Bible never says that! Why would you hang your hope on a theory that you cannot find stated in Scripture?

You say, "All of you sins were future sins when Christ died..." The truth is, your future sins did not exist!

You reveal what you are basing your theology on... "If your future sin was not paid on the cross..." This is the assumption that you hold dearer than Scripture itself, and you are forcing that conclusion on every passage in the Bible that you read. That's the real "danger"!

Then you have no hope

If the penalty for your sins were not paid for. Your own your own.

Good luck

ps. Are you sinless??

I am going to keep asking this until you answer

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We can trust that God will judge all men according to their works. Now is the time for grace...but on judgment day it will be only works that will be made manifest. It will be about what we have done with what we have been given.

And the surprise of many will be great. Especially they who assumed and presumed their way through life.

yeah he will

But if the penalty for anyones sins is not paid for. All their works will amount to a bunch of bloody rags. And will be cast out. As will they

 

[marks]

So aren't you going to keep saying if something is not of faith it is sin? How would you say that now? Explain what you mean. I'm not finding fault; there is a reason for my question. In my own past I had faith something was not sin, that I now believe was. I felt no shame or guilt, because for a short time, I was believing a false teaching. Not only that, but it didn't stop God from talking to me or doing miracles for me. Could that be a willful trespass? Just to be on the safe side, I've now repented and asked forgiveness for my ignorance. But I'm still not sure that ignorance of sin will not condemn us? What do you think?

Edit: Wow! I just woke up (2:44 am) and God spoke to me the answer on why my sin didn't separate me from God; that while in the midst of my sin, He still spoke to me and performed the greatest miracle to date He's ever done for me. It was because He saw me overcoming that sin and will die righteous and holy - His requirement for heaven. I love when He does this. I wrote a book based on all the things He told me when I first wake up.

Just went back to bed and He gave me some more on the same subject. He doesn't see us as sinners, but as overcomers through His foreknowledge. This is why some people never hear His voice. His future foreknowledge sees them dying in unrepentant sins. This is also why the last church age, Laodecia, where Christ is on the outside, He still sees them as part of His church, and they do not receive the strong delusion that other unbelievers will receive when the Antichrist is revealed. They will become martyrs for Him! The greatest work we can do for Him is laying down our life.

Therefore, there is some merit in the OSAS doctrine, but the truth is, He is not looking at us from the beginning, but what state He sees us in at the end. For only the righteous and holy will enter heaven. It is why in the letters to the seven churches, the common word in each age is "overcomer."

I still think the heart of the matter is in our justification. It leaves no other outcome possible.

Much love!

PS . . . I'll come back to re-read, I know you had a question in there.

 

[Episkopos]

yeah he will

But if the penalty for anyones sins is not paid for. All their works will amount to a bunch of bloody rags. And will be cast out. As will they

It's a horrible depiction of God to claim mercy for oneself and not the same mercy for others. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people claim to be justified so that salvation is exclusive to themselves. But God judges the judges. Judge not lest you be judged.

 

[marks]

@Candidus

What does this mean to you?

Where John the Baptizer points to Jesus, and tells the people to . . . "Behold the Lamb of God, Who carries away the sins of the world".

Some translations say, who takes away. Who bears away. The word is airo, to lift up carrying away.

What does that mean to you?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then you have no hope

If the penalty for your sins were not paid for. Your own your own.

Good luck

ps. Are you sinless??

I am going to keep asking this until you answer

I don't think there will be an answer. I was trying to think of the best word to fit here, I think it's 'insinuate'. Some will insinuate that they are sinless, but without saying that they are.

It's about plausible deniability, If I'm understanding correctly.

So, I'm going with what is actually said, that @Candidus and @Episkopos teach one thing, which I happen to think is in error when compared to the Bible, just the same, that while they teach this, it's not what they say about themselves. So it's more teaching their theology, like so many do, but without the life experience of it.

I just think it good to point out to the reader that this is what is happening. Making sweeping statements to hold over everyone else, but not themselves. I guess!

"All Christians are sinless! I'm a Christian! Draw such conclusions as you will."

And if that's not what they are doing/saying, then the point is moot, they aren't trying to make everyone think they are sinless. It's just a misunderstanding.

Right?

Much love!

 

[marks]

It's a horrible depiction of God to claim mercy for oneself and not the same mercy for others. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world. Some people claim to be justified so that salvation is exclusive to themselves. But God judges the judges. Judge not lest you be judged.

Remember to keep the Savior with the salvation, though.

Some people claim to be justified so that salvation is exclusive to themselves.

What does that even mean? Someone claims to be justified so that they are the only saved? Hm.

Much love!