Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Candidus]

IF that's the case, well, is that, "tying up heavy burdens for others" that they don't lift themselves?

I mean, this is how it seems to me. Certain ones going on and on about, If you sin you're not a Christian! You're all a lot of hypocrits!

Yet they themselves display themselves to us, and we can see how they act. No one need say anything.

Twisting someone's words around trying to make them look foolish, is that righteousness?

Much love!

When the discussion ceases to be what God says, and becomes ad hominem, it is never a search for truth.

 

[Candidus]

Keep watching them

They teach sinless

But they will make every excuse in the book to not come out and say if they still sin or not..

its par for the course

When you cannot defeat the Bible and what God says, and choose to attack anyone that would believe it, it gets personal. Strange...

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When you cannot defeat the Bible and what God says, and choose to attack anyone that would believe it, it gets personal. Strange...

When you can not give a direct answer when people ask you questions, the only reasonable response anyone can give, Is that you are hiding something

So do not talk to me about the bible when you refuse to acknowledge whether you live up to your own belief system.

As the old saying goes. Do you practice what you preach? If so you should be sinless

So are you? YES OR NO??

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When the discussion ceases to be what God says, and becomes ad hominem, it is never a search for truth.

When the teacher refuses to prove he lives up to the standard he demands everyoen else to love by

He becomes a hypocrite, and stops being a teacher

 

[marks]

If this is not true, why would we see people fight God so hard, correct Him, and argue for sin with such passion?

What kind of nonsense is this?

I know, I know...

You know what?

Can you restate to me my view? I'd like to see if you are able, as you feel so free to parody it. Or do you just prefer to be the mocker you accuse others of being?

 

[marks]

I'm not the one stuck on "achieving" states of grace as those who oppose holiness on the Board do!

Who is opposing holiness?

Who is "stuck on 'achieving states of grace'"? What does that even mean?

Does being Born-Again make one a qualified teacher?

I'm saying if you aren't one of God's people, I'm not thinking He's going to be using you to teach.

How we live and what we teach matters according to Scripture; "Be not many [of you] teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment."

Something to keep in mind!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Although He is going to send my neighbor who is not a Christian to an Eternal Hell for sinning the same sin I am committing!

This is what need to be examined.

This shows in incomplete view of justification. That is the direction I'd suggest study into.

Much love!

 

[marks]

When the discussion ceases to be what God says, and becomes ad hominem, it is never a search for truth.

Complete agreement!

 

[marks]

When you cannot defeat the Bible and what God says, and choose to attack anyone that would believe it, it gets personal. Strange...

I don't see that happening here.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What kind of nonsense is this?


You know what?

Can you restate to me my view? I'd like to see if you are able, as you feel so free to parody it. Or do you just prefer to be the mocker you accuse others of being?

that is what happens when people are confronted.

When they can not show how they live their own faith, or their faith has issues and they have no answer..They attack it takes the focus off them (or so they think)

 

[marks]

that is what happens when people are confronted.

When they can not show how they live their own faith, or their faith has issues and they have no answer..They attack it takes the focus off them (or so they think)

I do happen to see that a lot.

 

[CharismaticLady]

When we parse sins, there is more:

Sexual sin is against your own body. This presents another class. Sins against your body.

So we have:

Sins unto death.
Sins not unto death.
Sins against the body.

Are you remembering that both lying and stealing, under the Law, were able to be atoned by sacrifice? So that these sins, which are both, at least to me evidently deliberate, willful, not unto death?

So then it seems to me that there would be:

Sins unto death.
Intentional sins not unto death.
Unintentional sins not unto death.
Sins against the body.

Although you've said that the sins not unto death are those that could be atoned by sacrifice, because they are unintentional.

Again, In Him is No sin. Not some sins.

Why can we not be righteous in Him in all respects? But be it to us according to our faith.

Much love!

And just what sexual sin are unintentional? But you have said that all sin is sin, and all sin is willful. Has that changed?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Hi CL,

Concerning our justification.

You know that Grace is more than the good will God shows us in forgiving our sins and adopting us as children, it is the power of God in us to enable us to stand in this life. Grace is God's power that gives us gifts and ministries, ability and understanding, would you agree?

Justification is more than God's declaration that we are righteous.

Justification is the act of making us righteous. Recreation and justification are in a way saying the same thing in two different ways.

This phrase from Romans 6, we are freed from sin, literally, we are justified away from sin. Separated completely from sin forever. Which sins are excepted from that? None, in my view.

We are justified away from sin, that is, we are separated from sin, sin from us, sin is put away from us entirely. How else would our Holy God come and live in us? Share us with sin? I don't think so.

Our lives are training in faith to overcome all sins, to come to see all temptations as provings that show who we are.

Temptations, same word as trials. Contrary experiences that cause the born again to exercise their faith and thereby grow in it. Contrary experiences that either cause us to look to God for what is needed, or that cause us to try to fill the need on our own.

A contrary poster on the forum, an opportunity to feel angry, get snarky, put them in their place, or the opportunity to experience a little more fully the depths of love in loving the unloveable.

In either case, to the regenerate, as we continue in love, God continues to build us into His image. Should we fail from that, it's the opportunityf for us to realize that we need to approach things differently, realizing that God is with me, wanting to love others through me, and to not get in the way of that.

Justification is what happens when we are crucified in Christ, buried, and raised with Him, a new creature, righteous, and truly holy. This is what the new man is, being justified, the condemned sinner is dead, a new man is alive, alive in Christ. If that is the life I am living, there isn't any sin at all. Because, like @Episkopos says, we walk as He walked, without sin, the Spirit living through us.

The only caveat is that generally speaking, I think, we've been taught in all manner of ways that no one lives that way, so there is a general lacking of faith. And be it to us according to our faith.

This is one of the primary disagreements I have with Episkopos is that he teaches that only by God basically grabbing you and pulling you into this faith, you don't have it.

But what I know from both the Bible and life is, that's not true. We've been given an abundant life full of good works there for us to walk in, and we spend all our lives learning more and more how to do that. But just the same, at any moment we are trusting Jesus, not looking to ourselves, but simply knowing that we are at peace with Him, He is our God, He will guide, and deliver, we walk in the Spirit.

Falter in this faith, forget to trust, and just react, that is not of faith. Whatever we do apart from faith in God is sin.

But the bottom line is in our justification. Justification and a new creation. There is no power of the flesh over the new creation. Being empowered by God we are completely free.

The power to live in this life, I think is what we call grace. And the freedom to live in this live, I think is what we call justification.

Much love!

Good post. And except for semantics I think we agree.

I see justification, recreation and sanctification all on the same day. Like this:

justification < recreation/baptism of Holy Spirit > sanctification. Then glorification is the life long process.

past sins forgiven < new powerful creation > set apart unto God. Maturing in the ways of Christ and becoming like Him.

 

[Candidus]

When you can not give a direct answer when people ask you questions, the only reasonable response anyone can give, Is that you are hiding something

So do not talk to me about the bible when you refuse to acknowledge whether you live up to your own belief system.

As the old saying goes. Do you practice what you preach? If so you should be sinless

So are you? YES OR NO??

I wonder what the Bible says?

 

[marks]

And just what sexual sin are unintentional? But you have said that all sin is sin, and all sin is willful. Has that changed?

I haven't said that sexual sins aren't intentional. I think they are intentional.

Mostly how I see sin nowadays is by contrast. That which is not of faith, to me, declares all that is not walking in the Spirit to be sin.

In faith we enter into grace, and in grace we do not sin. And if at any time our faith dimishes, we are in danger of acting according to the flesh.

Even impatience or irritation with someone, both of which I experienced with my wife this weekend, bless her golden heart, these are sin, because they fall short of God's way.

As I could be walking in the Spririt showing His love during that time of testing, when I don't then, that's sin.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Good post. And except for semantics I think we agree.

I see justification, recreation and sanctification all on the same day. Like this:

justification < recreation/baptism of Holy Spirit > sanctification. Then glorification is the life long process.

past sins forgiven < new powerful creation > set apart unto God. Maturing in the ways of Christ and becoming like Him.

Yes, a little semantical distinction, but not to concern me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I wonder what the Bible says?

An expected deflection . . . But to answer your question, here is something the Bible says:

Colossian 3
8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

What is this old man that they have put off? What is the new man that these have put on? And why does God tell them to put off anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, and filthy communication?

Why give this instruction to those who have put off the old man, and have put on the new man? Can you make sense of that?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I haven't said that sexual sins aren't intentional. I think they are intentional.

Mostly how I see sin nowadays is by contrast. That which is not of faith, to me, declares all that is not walking in the Spirit to be sin.

In faith we enter into grace, and in grace we do not sin. And if at any time our faith dimishes, we are in danger of acting according to the flesh.

Even impatience or irritation with someone, both of which I experienced with my wife this weekend, bless her golden heart, these are sin, because they fall short of God's way.

As I could be walking in the Spririt showing His love during that time of testing, when I don't then, that's sin.

Much love!

So sexual sin is not a separate category from other willful sins of lawlessness. (Against God's written laws.)

Your irritation at your wife I would consider a trespass. Recently I came to the realization that not all trespasses are unintentional. So there are now three categories that I see.

Sins unto death
Willful sins of lawlessness

Sins not unto death
Willful trespasses
Unintentional trespasses

 

[CharismaticLady]

Yes, a little semantical distinction, but not to concern me.

Much love!

I prefer not to use the word "grace" or "faith" by themselves in posting because of the generalized definition they have been given. You ask anybody and 9 times out of 10 they will say grace is unmerited favor, and place on that a further belief that past, present and future sins are all forgiven, when 2 Peter 1:9 declares that only our past sins were forgiven. That would mean that it is a given that a Christian has no power not to sin; and will sin willfully presently and in the future. But no where is that taught. If one is truly born again, they have power not to sin from that moment. Paul tries to correct people by calling them carnal babes, or seduced by false doctrines as in Galatians, but in doing so he is warning them that they have stepped off the road to salvation and need to truly repent. Salvation is the end product of those who become unwaveringly righteous and holy. Revelation 22:11

And "faith" can be semantically replaced with "believe" and even the demons believe and tremble.

 

[marks]

I prefer not to use the word "grace" or "faith" by themselves in posting because of the generalized definition they have been given. You ask anybody and 9 times out of 10 they will say grace is unmerited favor, and place on that a further belief that past, present and future sins are all forgiven, when 2 Peter 1:9 declares that only our past sins were forgiven. That would mean that it is a given that a Christian has no power not to sin; and will sin willfully presently and in the future. But no where is that taught. If one is truly born again, they have power not to sin from that moment. Paul tries to correct people by calling them carnal babes, or seduced by false doctrines as in Galatians, but in doing so he is warning them that they have stepped off the road to salvation and need to truly repent. Salvation is the end product of those who become unwaveringly righteous and holy. Revelation 22:11

And "faith" can be semantically replaced with "believe" and even the demons believe and tremble.

I've begun saying "trust" as the verb for "faith", hoping to make a more clear distinction.

Much love!