Fear God or Presume acceptance

[CharismaticLady]

Do you even understand what repentance is, it when you realize that you are wrong and He is right and you turn yourself back to God and do things His way. You works count for nothing, no one will stand before God and boast of there works.

Yes, I do know what true repentance is. And it is not sin, repent, sin, repent, sin, repent, ad infinitum. It is once. And ALL our sins are cleansed. It is then we are given the Holy Spirit that takes us out of the sinful flesh and into the Spirit, where we are empowered to partake of the divine nature that does not commit willful sins of lawlessness anymore. Acts 2:38; 1 John 1:9; Romans 8:9; 2 Peter 1:2-4. Doing just what comes naturally to the divine nature is not works of us, but of the Spirit through us.

At that point we are sinless, but not yet perfect. We still commit trespasses, sins not unto death, but as long as we forgive each other, that slate is cleansed as well. Matthew 6:14-15. 1 John 2:1. Zero plus zero is sinless.

Then we go on to perfection from glory to glory with adding add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 2 Peter 1:5-7

 

[marks]

It all boils down to your belief that sin is sin, period. You keep claiming to be a sinner, and out of the other side of your mouth you quote 1 John 5:18 that Christians don't sin, which if you claim to be a sinner, then how can you believe you are born again?

How can I believe I'm born again? No. That's not what I'm saying. The thing of it is, IF what you say were true, then in no wise am I, or pretty much anyone, is born again. Your beliefs exclude any who admits that there yet remains sin in their life from actually being born again.

You're views prohibit the notion that I've ever met God. So why do you even discuss this stuff we me the "unregenerate"?

I'm trying to help you love yourself.

Wow!

OK. Even after all this, I don't think you have any concept about me or my life. I suppose it's my fault, for not being more self-revelatory.

But I feel that to tell my story will make some people lump me together with those to believe differently.

I just don't think you are understanding what I'm saying.

I know by both instruction from God through the Bible, and the experience of my life that by faith in Jesus we overcome everything that is against us, and that we do not sin, and that we walk with a clean conscience - however - I do not teach or believe that this is the criteria that we know we are born again, that we are trusting in Jesus.

This is a learning curve in believers, and we are all different.

Loving myself is a far away an issue as can be with me. That's got nothing to do with anything. I have a Comforter beyond any other. What is love for self when we can know God's amazing love for us?

Do all have the same gift? No. It's no different than saying, if you don't speak in tongues you aren't saved. Think a moment, why is there even a gift of faith? Gifts of teaching and helps and all that? So we can transcend where we are.

I keep claiming to be a child of God. What you hear as "the other side of my mouth" is the recognition that while we are dead to the flesh, yet we remain in those flesh bodies, and dealing with their hostility towards us.

If God gives you faith to overcome in an instant, wonderful, but if He doesn't, you may find that you come to understand how to trust Jesus over a course of time. And is this the person we trumpet to that "you aren't saved, you told a lie! Better get born again!" Why, I never sin!!

I marvel that you preceive I'm trying to fill some lack in myself!

You will, I expect, continue to teach like @Episkopos I suppose, that we are justified, reborn, but that's not enough, we've got to finish it ourselves.

I will oppose that fully, knowing the truth of faith and grace, that ALL who are born again, the only lack that needs to be filled is to trust more completely in what Jesus has done for us.

When we will allow ourselves to the freedom of not having to make things better ourselves, that's when we receive everything from Him.

Loving ourselves is the very least, everyone does that. They just don't always know how very well.

No, loving God, that's what is needed, and love for His is found in His love for us, that He gave Himself for us.

We don't forgive to purchase His forgiveness. That's OT. We forgive because we have been forgiven.

Much Love!

 

[marks]

By my own beliefs, I believe you are, because what sin you do are trespasses, which you won't accept in your blanket "sin is sin" error.

There's quite the presumption, considering I've said otherwise.

Besides, that thinking puts the lie to, "In Him is No sin". No sin. Not, some sins, not, In Christ are Little Sins. Is that really what you think that means? In Christ are inconsequential sins?

 

[marks]

in your blanket "sin is sin" error.

Does sin separate one from God?

 

[marks]

The reborn are not sinners unto death, but children of God

Of course! :)

 

[marks]

And ALL our sins are cleansed.

But you say, only what you call willful sins are cleansed, and God leaves you a partial sinner. But in Him is No sin. None. And even then, the sins He leaves you in may or may not be forgiven, it depends on whether you go onto commit the sin of unforgiveness.

 

[marks]

Either you are free from sin, or you are not.

In Christ is no sin.

This is a true statement, but the way to understand it's truth is not by redefining some sins as being OK to God.

"I'm God's child, but I can still sin some sins." In Him is no sin.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

I would love to hear of your experience of going to heaven that you just alluded too, which I've never heard before. Please tell us. And you can't see my face. I'm not mocking you. I'm serious. If you don't want to do that here, then PM me.

I have posted my testimony on this forum a few times if you dig, And if you find it, you will realise why so few bother.

 

[CharismaticLady]

How can I believe I'm born again? No. That's not what I'm saying. The thing of it is, IF what you say were true, then in no wise am I, or pretty much anyone, is born again. Your beliefs exclude any who admits that there yet remains sin in their life from actually being born again.

You're views prohibit the notion that I've ever met God. So why do you even discuss this stuff we me the "unregenerate"?

I'm not the one saying anything against you - you are!

I keep claiming to be a child of God. What you hear as "the other side of my mouth" is the recognition that while we are dead to the flesh, yet we remain in those flesh bodies, and dealing with their hostility towards us.

What does our body have to do with our nature? Nothing! Those who have been filled with the powerful Spirit of God and born again, have different desires than the person they once were with their old carnal nature that is now dead. Bringing up our flesh is one of those false doctrines that is not true. Paul writing Romans 8:9 and following it with verse 10, is saying, we are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit for eternity, NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH our body of flesh that still must die and be made immortal.

You will, I expect, continue to teach like @Episkopos I suppose, that we are justified, reborn, but that's not enough, we've got to finish it ourselves.

I will oppose that fully, knowing the truth of faith and grace, that ALL who are born again, the only lack that needs to be filled is to trust more completely in what Jesus has done for us.

When we will allow ourselves to the freedom of not having to make things better ourselves, that's when we receive everything from Him.

E and I are not clones in our doctrines. But I don't remember either one of us saying we must "finish it ourselves." When we obey the Spirit inside us, it is He that works through us, not us in our own power doing anything. Why can't you grasp the difference? It is not OUR OWN works at all! But we must stay in the Spirit. And I believe, or hope, that E knows the importance of that. If the Spirit tells us to do something, and we don't, that is grieving the Spirit. But willfully sinning is actually quenching the Spirit.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I have posted my testimony on this forum a few times if you dig, And if you find it, you will realise why so few bother.

Why so few bother what? If you won't find it for me, (mean) just tell me some key words like "testimony" or something I can do my own search.

 

[CharismaticLady]

There's quite the presumption, considering I've said otherwise.

Besides, that thinking puts the lie to, "In Him is No sin". No sin. Not, some sins, not, In Christ are Little Sins. Is that really what you think that means? In Christ are inconsequential sins?

So you don't sin at all, even trespasses then? So being born again, you are perfect. Good!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Does sin separate one from God?

Willful sins of lawlessness most certainly do. Just not according to Martin Luther.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But you say, only what you call willful sins are cleansed, and God leaves you a partial sinner. But in Him is No sin. None. And even then, the sins He leaves you in may or may not be forgiven, it depends on whether you go onto commit the sin of unforgiveness.

I was stumped on that too until I saw that 1 John 1:7 shows someone who is born again, have had ALL their sins, both unto death and not unto death 1 John 5:16-17 cleansed, and yet at the end of the verse we find that the blood of Jesus in still cleansing... Chapter 3 with the key verse 4 that shows what type of sin is the subject, a person walking in the light, or has the seed of the Father of 3:9, cannot commit. So what type of sin is left? Trespasses. And Matthew tells us what we must do to have those cleansed. Matthew 6:14-15. Forgive each other through love.

 

[marks]

Willful sins of lawlessness most certainly do. Just not according to Martin Luther.

All sins do. There are no sins that are OK to God.

I just can't understand how it is you don't see that. But there it is.

 

[CharismaticLady]

All sins do. There are no sins that are OK to God.

I just can't understand how it is you don't see that. But there it is.

Yes I do. We cannot have unforgiveness in our hearts toward our brethren. We are separated from God for those trespasses as well and why Paul tells us not to let a root of bitterness take root. Forgive immediately.

 

[marks]

So you don't sin at all, even trespasses then? So being born again, you are perfect. Good!

Why is it that people leap to this?

What does this mean:

Put on the new man, created after God, in righteousness and true holiness. This is righteousness and holiness. This is who we are.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Why is it that people leap to this?

What does this mean:

Put on the new man, created after God, in righteousness and true holiness. This is righteousness and holiness. This is who we are.

Why? Because you are the one saying you are born again and also quoting 1 John 5:18. You can't have it both ways. We are either a sinner or a child of God, but we can't be both.

 

[Candidus]

So we deny the power of God to
Change those people

I believe in Gods power. Jesus was against legalism. If he thought today the main street church would reject him just like the jews did

people hate true grace. Because it takes them out of the equation

they will get theirs

God's power is to bring victory over sin. To deliver the repentant believer. Holiness is not legalism; it is the will of God. Any "grace" that does not have the power to regenerate and change someone, is not real grace. Ineffectual, powerless grace is no grace at all.

If God cannot deliver you from sin here and now, there is no evidence that He would have the power to do it after you are dead.

Antinomianism is rampant in the Church today.

 

[marks]

@CharismaticLady

You've often challenged others with the question, Does God answer all your prayers? And presented this as an evidence of your doctrine, that God answers all your prayers, so now what about everyone else?

You've explained what this means and I understand, you hear the will of God, you pray, and your prayer is heard and answered.

To me, prayer is a never ending communion with my Father. C.S. Lewis has a good comment on this I think.
I'm like a character in a book that God can set down and go run the universe, but as He returns to me, not a moment has passed, and I have Him all to myself. Now, I think the book analogy may fall a little short, but the meaning I think is very sound.

God has all the time in the world. He spends every second of my life with me. Being justified from sin, there need never be any break, only when someone forgets that it is by Jesus' obedience, not our own, that we are justified.

In this is joy, and in this is liberty, and a true freedom from all sin, but be it to you according to your faith.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Why? Because you are the one saying you are born again and also quoting 1 John 5:18. You can't have it both ways. We are either a sinner or a child of God, but we can't be both.

And what does this mean to you:

Put on the new man, created after God, in righteousness and true holiness. This is righteousness and holiness. This is who we are.

You are correct, we are either a sinner or a child of God. Please consider my question, what exactly is this verse saying, with that thought in mind, we are one or the other.

So, why, put on the new man? And what is the new man? Is he holy? Righteous? How do we "put him on"?

there are passages that give clear answers to all these questions.

Much love!