Fear God or Presume acceptance

[Eternally Grateful]

No, look to the prior posts that deny Perfection and make it only occur at the hand of DEATH. If DEATH cleanses us from sin and makes us Perfect, then no one would need Christ and His Atonement! My post is just following the dogmatic assumptions and logic that some are making, and taking it to it's logical end.

So you are perfect. You no longer sin? You have arrived?

 

[Candidus]

A child of God can not live in sin because he has born of God

1 John 3 tells us this fact,

why do people continue to deny the power of God to change lives?

I know that people do not want to hear it, but the primary reason they do not accept it is because they have sin they are unwilling to give up. One thing that I have leaned through my many years on the planet is, even the unregenerate fancies that they are their way to heaven. Whether it be the assumption that God will weigh their good with their bad, or that God is all Love and would never send anybody to Hell... theories and justifications for sin are endless.

To say "go and sin no more" is unpopular. If Jesus preached what is taught in churches today, He would never have been crucified.

 

[Episkopos]

No, look to the prior posts that deny Perfection and make it only occur at the hand of DEATH. If DEATH cleanses us from sin and makes us Perfect, then no one would need Christ and His Atonement! My post is just following the dogmatic assumptions and logic that some are making, and taking it to it's logical end.

Amen! Good post. The physical death takes care of the physical sins...and any chance of moving forward in stature and being pleasing to God. But no one is made perfect by a physical death...it just stops us from doing anything, good OR bad.

Then there is the spiritual side of things with the necessity of the carnal power (also called the flesh) that gets in the way of a connection to God and His life...to be put to death by the power of the cross so that we are liberated to walk in a new life and power. Free from sin and alive to both righteousness and holiness.

So then Christianity is not about an afterlife (many religions promise a good outcome after death)....but a new life in Christ right now! While we yet live we can bear an eternal kind of fruit.....that brings glory to God. We are learning to love as we have been loved. And we are learning to walk as Jesus walked...to walk in grace by faith.

And none of this has to do with force. A physical death FORCES us to stop doing our own thing. But he who does the will of God will never die.

So life is on more than one level. (In the Hebrew the word for life is plural....Chayim!)

 

[Candidus]

So life is on more than one level. (In the Hebrew the word for life is plural....Chayim!)

That's interesting! I did not know that. Hebrew is an academic weakness for me. It's one of my goals to learn it someday.

 

[Episkopos]

That's interesting! I did not know that. Hebrew is an academic weakness for me. It's one of my goals to learn it someday.

אם לא עכשיו אז מתי?
אם לא אני אז מי?
If not now then when?
If not me then whom?

:)

 

[CharismaticLady]

That depends on what you are looking for, if its perfection you are asking to much of men. Thats Christs domain. And yes as long as we live in this body as long as we have this mind, you know that bit about the renewing of your mind, and I certainly have my moments of both, but funny thing is for all the concerns that people have Jesus isnt fussed, once we believe it is enough, its all he needs Faith. As for perfection

1Co_15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

we havnt got there yet, we are not quiet' as on earth as it is in heaven" if it where so, we would not suffer any pain any sickness but we do, if it where so we had being changed it would reflect in our outside it is impossible for it not to.

As for the flesh, well we will see, and no you havnt made it straight.

Again, that is our body that will be changed at the resurrection, but only if we are either righteous or holy - the state our life was when we died. Revelation 22:11.

As for "asking too much of men," yes, that is Christ's domain. But He abides inside Christians, letting us partake of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:2-11. Without holiness, no man shall see God. Hebrews 12:14; and children of God are not sinners. 1 John 3.

 

[CharismaticLady]

You caught the Gnosticism in all it's glory!

Correct! However, to be fair, I never found out if that is what he actually believed. But he did trigger the right questions to ask that you picked up on. LOL

But, Gnosticism IS alive and well in the Church; it is the wide road. Holiness is the narrow road. And few there are that find it. Actual children of God purifies themselves. 1 John 3:1-3

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I know that people do not want to hear it, but the primary reason they do not accept it is because they have sin they are unwilling to give up. One thing that I have leaned through my many years on the planet is, even the unregenerate fancies that they are their way to heaven. Whether it be the assumption that God will weigh their good with their bad, or that God is all Love and would never send anybody to Hell... theories and justifications for sin are endless.

To say "go and sin no more" is unpopular. If Jesus preached what is taught in churches today, He would never have been crucified.

So we deny the power of God to
Change those people

I believe in Gods power. Jesus was against legalism. If he thought today the main street church would reject him just like the jews did

people hate true grace. Because it takes them out of the equation

they will get theirs

 

[mjrhealth]

Again, that is our body that will be changed at the resurrection, but only if we are either righteous or holy - the state our life was when we died. Revelation 22:11.

As for "asking too much of men," yes, that is Christ's domain. But He abides inside Christians, letting us partake of the divine nature. 2 Peter 1:2-11. Without holiness, no man shall see God. Hebrews 12:14; and children of God are not sinners. 1 John 3.

So far all I have seeing, is you have read the bible, again its too much bible not enough Jesus, and as most christians do, you have made it all about your performance. You see I have seeing God, even being with Christ, as a friend of mine told me, it was like she was standing inside of Jesus, and that would be right because HE is our righteousness, and because of Him we can all see God, you know this bit.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

it isnt about how good you are or claim to be but about how good HE is and the works HE did.And as I said before, God isnt blind He knows the hearts and minds of men.

 

[mjrhealth]

I know that people do not want to hear it, but the primary reason they do not accept it is because they have sin they are unwilling to give up. One thing that I have leaned through my many years on the planet is, even the unregenerate fancies that they are their way to heaven. Whether it be the assumption that God will weigh their good with their bad, or that God is all Love and would never send anybody to Hell... theories and justifications for sin are endless.

To say "go and sin no more" is unpopular. If Jesus preached what is taught in churches today, He would never have been crucified.

So i guess we found another perfect christian who is performance based on not grace. Grace is very unpopular as you yourself just proved because it removes "your works" from the equation, and men love to boast. God isnt blind.

 

[mjrhealth]

The Theological Argument applied:

Commanded to be perfect with God. Deut. 18:13... God commands impossibilities! Ignore it! Grace, Grace, Grace!
Walk before me and be thou perfect. Gen. 17:1... Just more taunting from God?
Be perfect as your Father is perfect. Matt. 5:48... Why didn't the people shout out "Nonsense Jesus!"?
Go on to perfection. Hebrews 6:1... Antinomian Translation: "Make your way to La La Land!"
We wish your perfection. 2 Cor. 13:9... Antinomian Translation: "I wish you weren't so flawed... I accept it!"
Epaphras prays for your perfection. Col. 4:12... Interpreted by Paul to mean.... "Epaphras does not believe in grace!"
I pray night and day for your perfection. 2 Thes. 3:10... Woops! There goes that Paul again! The anti-grace Apostle!
Scriptures are given: that the man of God may be perfect. 2 Thes. 3:10... So, why all those verses if it is impossible? God needs to get over it!
We preach to present every man perfect. Col. 1:28... We know they really preached "Just accept it: God knows you will always be imperfect!"
Finally farewell. Be perfect. 2 Cor. 13:11... Those of us with a superior theology say that the Bible is wrong again!
God gave some apostles, some evangelists... for the perfecting of the saints. Eph. 4:11-13... Antinomian Translation: "A REAL Evangelist will preach that we will always be imperfect, there must be a mistranslation!
If thou will be perfect. Matt. 19:21... Apparently, just more airy nonsense from Jesus!
Made perfect in one John. 17:23... Impossible!
Same is perfect man. James 3:2... We know better! Tear this Book against the REAL Grace of God out of our Bibles!
Perfect in love. 1 John 4:17, 18... Go ahead and nurture your hate, for we all know this cannot be! Grace, Grace, Grace!
Love the bond of perfectness Col. 3:14... That appearently will NEVER be realized!
Mark the perfect man Ps. 37:37... The Bible lied about Mark.
Noah was perfect in his generation. Gen. 6:9... The bible lied about Noah.
Hezekiah had a perfect heart. 2 Kings 20:3... the Bible lies about Hezekiah's heart.
Asa's heart was perfect. 2 Chron. 15:17... There is no way these people had any perfection; otherwise they would not need the Grace of God!
I will walk with a perfect heart. Ps. 10:1, 2... Impossible! Why even try?
Job a perfect man. Job 1:1-8... Antinomian Translation: "Job, a man who did not need Grace!"

You don't need GRACE if you are Perfect! The BIBLE say so!... I don't know where is ever says such a thing, but it has to be in there somewhere! DEATH is our Sanctifier and Perfecter... Accomplishing what God the Creator, the Atonement of Christ, and the Work of the Holy Spirit cannot!

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

 

[mjrhealth]

A child of God can not live in sin because he has born of God

1 John 3 tells us this fact,

why do people continue to deny the power of God to change lives?

its a process, do you know any perfect christians, I dont. The only perfect one I know is Jesus Christ and God.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

its a process, do you know any perfect christians, I dont. The only perfect one I know is Jesus Christ and God.

I also know there is a huge difference between “living in sin” and the struggles a belieber goes through

 

[CharismaticLady]

Mat_9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

So why not repent? Or is that a work?

 

[marks]

but you can try to twist a nice meaning if you want to for yourself.

If that what this conversation has become to you then there seems little point in continuing, to me.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

So why not repent? Or is that a work?

It's work which God produces in the heart, Romans 2.

 

[marks]

That is unless you listen to the false teachers trying to tell you that you will always sin; that you are a slave to your flesh; and that it doesn't matter what you do once you are a child of God, because God knows we are but dust.

I can't imagine that you don't realize how meaningless this statement is between you and I. This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, and we've been round this quite a bit.

I really don't see the point in going in circles.

Much love!

 

[mjrhealth]

So why not repent? Or is that a work?

Do you even understand what repentance is, it when you realize that you are wrong and He is right and you turn yourself back to God and do things His way. You works count for nothing, no one will stand before God and boast of there works. Thats the sad thing about " born again" believers all claim to be spiritual till you speak of the spiritual things of God, than they deny them all. And yes I have being to heaven even received my testimony from him, this bit

Joh 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Joh 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
Thats Gods doing not mine.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can't imagine that you don't realize how meaningless this statement is between you and I. This has nothing to do with what I'm talking about, and we've been round this quite a bit.

I really don't see the point in going in circles.

Much love!

But that is exactly what I've seen. Not between you and me, but between you and yourself. You are going in circles all by yourself.

It all boils down to your belief that sin is sin, period. You keep claiming to be a sinner, and out of the other side of your mouth you quote 1 John 5:18 that Christians don't sin, which if you claim to be a sinner, then how can you believe you are born again? By my own beliefs, I believe you are, because what sin you do are trespasses, which you won't accept in your blanket "sin is sin" error. And by your beliefs that Christians don't sin, and sin is sin, and you are a "sinner," can't you see the dichotomy of what you are saying? Contradicting circles.

I'm just trying to help you see that what sins Christians don't do are those of willful sins of lawlessness of 1 John 3:4, which are sins unto death according to our schoolmaster, the LAW. 1 John 5:16-17. And trespasses are not sins unto death and are constantly being cleansed of the reborn who love one another and forgive each other. I love you, brother. I'm trying to help you love yourself. Tell yourself the TRUTH. The reborn are not sinners unto death, but children of God who the Father keeps cleansing our slate of misdemeanors, as we forgive each other. So, all our willful sins were forgiven when we first repented, and given the Spirit, making us no longer under the law, but of the Spirit. We have zero sins of lawlessness against us. But we aren't perfect yet. We still commit trespasses. And with the slate of misdemeanors against us all being cleansed, we can walk in God's presence as truly sinless. Matthew 6:14-15. Zero plus zero equals zero. But we can even grow out of constantly committing trespasses as we add to our faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 2 Peter 1:5-7.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Do you even understand what repentance is, it when you realize that you are wrong and He is right and you turn yourself back to God and do things His way. You works count for nothing, no one will stand before God and boast of there works. Thats the sad thing about " born again" believers all claim to be spiritual till you speak of the spiritual things of God, than they deny them all. And yes I have being to heaven even received my testimony from him, this bit

Joh 3:32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
Joh 3:33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
Thats Gods doing not mine.

I would love to hear of your experience of going to heaven that you just alluded too, which I've never heard before. Please tell us. And you can't see my face. I'm not mocking you. I'm serious. If you don't want to do that here, then PM me.