entire sanctification is an obtainable goal.

[farouk]

Let me make an observation here.
The elect are driven, enslaved by love, it beats in their heart, it cries out in mourning and grief at sinful man and their lostness and evil.

Deep within our hearts worship of the King of love rises, each day, each waking moment. He is our Lord the one before whom we bow, prostrate, in awe and wonder.

Good way of putting it...

 

[FollowHim]

Imagine an individual claiming to be a rock climber, criticising people climbing rocks, their technique, their motivation, their goals while never doing it themselves. They are lying about who they are, what they love and are just a destructive influence.

Jesus came to teach us the way, to be with us through every step, to comfort and support each difficult moment. The way is narrow, needs sacrifice discipline perseverance, love, honesty , humbleness, repentance forgiveness and self control, full of the Holy Spirit, Amen. And brothers and sisters in Christ, the enemy cannot touch us, because we are in His hands, Praise the Lord, Amen

 

[FollowHim]

So I tell you what God promised to give all his children

And you ask me what kind of Pipe dream what?

Jesus walked with them for 3 years because he had to change their mindset. And help them to understand, He was getting ready to send them into the world on their own with the HS

But what this has to do with me recieveing eternal life based on My faith? Can you explain?

May I make a simple observation. Jesus came to change their mindset?

They died proclaiming their faith and love of Jesus. If you think this is just a mindset change ......... I have nothing else to say, this says it all.

To die to the world and live to Christ is putting everything we are on the altar, no reservations, no take backs. Peter's denial was Peter wanting to see what would happen next with no commitment. That hurt him, that showed how he was still playing a game, not quite sure.
We know the depth Jesus goes in us because we have walked the same path ourselves. Those who have not but claim the same rights show themselves in their language. Different worlds. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You still have shown zero places where it is stated that the Atonement was a "payment for sins." You need to look harder!

Good day sir

the verse I post said that atonement was for sin

And you said I did not show it

I can not help you, when I as much as showed you a 100 dollar bill, and you state I have yet to show you a 100 dollar bill

I will pray for you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let me make an observation here.
The elect are driven, enslaved by love, it beats in their heart, it cries out in mourning and grief at sinful man and their lostness and evil.

Deep within our hearts worship of the King of love rises, each day, each waking moment. He is our Lord the one before whom we bow, prostrate, in awe and wonder.

This is why you confuse me so much, you always make comments like this, then when push comes to shove you seem to contradict this, by claiming this is true, but it may not be true, our faith can fail, and if it does, so does our salvation go with it, to point it is like we were never born of God at all, and the spirit has left us

 

[charity]

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What I share is 100% biblical.
I point out a simple principle, we are called to walk like Jesus.

This is not emotional or speculation, it is Paul's heart. Clearly it must pass you by, which as a believer I must wonder at. The elect listen to and follow Jesus.

Jesus spoke eternal realities, but only the elect listened. God bless you.

You right, I believe this also

the problem is our justification is not based on how sanctified we become

our justification is by faith based on Gods love, not based on me, if it were based on me, I would never be justified, because I am a sinner who has and continues to fall short of the glory of God (perfection) but praise to God i was.. well here, let me let the apostle Paul tell you, maybe you will listen to him

Rom 3: being justified freely, by his Grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

now look there what did paul say

Being justified - it is an ongoing process, not a one time event, it continues, even today, I am being justified

what is the cost?

Freely, in the Greek the word is Dorian. The word means without cost, as a gift, freely given without paying

by his grace - grace comes from the Greek word charis it is where we get our word charity from, it is where I think most people have a problem with grace based theology, or try to change the meaning of what grace really is, it is no cost to the reciever, free (well it is free to the believer, it cost Jesus things we will never comprehend) it is basically charity, and one thing I have learned about proud people, they refuse to take anything by charity, they demand to pay for it, and if they can’t pay they will reject it,

this is why Jesus said we must become poor in spirit if we want to enter the kingdom of God

the word poor comes from the Greek ptochus. Which means destitute of wealth, reduced to begging, we call this in our day bankrupt, totally broke, unable to even feed ourselves, no place to call home, sleeping on the streets or wherever they can find a place. Jesus said this is where we need to be, if we want to enter Gods kingdom.

if we want a picture of this, Jesus gave us a picture, the sinner (tax collector) who got on his knees, so ashamed of his sins he was not able to even look up, calling out on God to shew mercy (charity) like the poor and destitute man who lays aside his pride, who comes and falls on their knees asking for charity so he can feed himself or his family, and what did Jesus say?

that man went home justified,

That is what God has given me and I am offering to share with other people,

but since I do this, and it offends so many, I am shamed, cut down, told I love my sin, and hate God

well who really hates God? It’s not me, I did what he said I should do, I became poor in spirit, and God is reminding me every day how poor I am without him, and when I forget, he is quick to remind me

I pray you find this one day, I really do

 

[Eternally Grateful]

May I make a simple observation. Jesus came to change their mindset?

Jesus came to change their lives, please for once, can you listen what I am saying and stop making these things up which I never said or even insinuated

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lovely sis, I wish this place had a heart emoji for like I would give you one for this, I love it

this has blessed my heart this morning.

 

[FollowHim]

This is why you confuse me so much, you always make comments like this, then when push comes to shove you seem to contradict this, by claiming this is true, but it may not be true, our faith can fail, and if it does, so does our salvation go with it, to point it is like we were never born of God at all, and the spirit has left us

I have learnt one simple lesson. I can only be true to what I know, not speculation or theology or ideas.
I do not know you, your history, your likes or dislikes, the way you express yourself, what you include and what you miss out.

Jesus declares to us how the Kingdom is founded, like a living thing, a vine, a tree, an inter-relationship that can be started and stopped, that is a kingdom of choice and free will, of obedience, of the heart, of love, of cleansing and purity, of aspiration and goals.

Satan who saw God face to face, chose to rebel. Job who could choose to praise God or not, praised God even through trials.
Many like Korah knew God, served in the temple but finally rebelled and was judged. Judas who was close as any apostle still betrayed Jesus.
The mystery is some will be weeds appearing true to Jesus but not, while others good seed but get smothered and fall away.

So our desire for certainty is the problem, our excuses based on measurement and finality, not realising it is the walk that matters, not each bump or success along the way. Our security is in Christ and His way, not an event in the past. Our hearts speak were we are today, and it is this that matters, working through with Jesus the issues, the glory of praise and love, and walking on. Faith does not fail, we walk away. Jesus does not change, we have never given all, and when it comes to light the depth of sacrifice needed, we leave Him alone.

Liars and frauds always exist, those who claim to have arrived, who judge and condemn others. But Jesus people love and walk on.
God bless you

15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.
2 Peter 2:15

12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse,
13 who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
Proverbs 2:12-14

11 I guide you in the way of wisdom and lead you along straight paths.
12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered; when you run, you will not stumble.
13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.
Prov 4:11-13

8 Lead me, O LORD, in your righteousness because of my enemies- make straight your way before me.
Psalm 5:8

33 Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess
Deut 5:33

11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.
Deut 30:11

3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

Are these verses ones own or alien, an impossible world beyond ones reach? Only with Jesus and learning and following can they become true. That is our way in Christ and His calling, though many unbelievers will cry impossible, because truly for them it is impossible.
God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have learnt one simple lesson. I can only be true to what I know, not speculation or theology or ideas.
I do not know you, your history, your likes or dislikes, the way you express yourself, what you include and what you miss out.

Jesus declares to us how the Kingdom is founded, like a living thing, a vine, a tree, an inter-relationship that can be started and stopped, that is a kingdom of choice and free will, of obedience, of the heart, of love, of cleansing and purity, of aspiration and goals.

Satan who saw God face to face, chose to rebel. Job who could choose to praise God or not, praised God even through trials.
Many like Korah knew God, served in the temple but finally rebelled and was judged. Judas who was close as any apostle still betrayed Jesus.
The mystery is some will be weeds appearing true to Jesus but not, while others good seed but get smothered and fall away.

So our desire for certainty is the problem, our excuses based on measurement and finality, not realising it is the walk that matters, not each bump or success along the way. Our security is in Christ and His way, not an event in the past. Our hearts speak were we are today, and it is this that matters, working through with Jesus the issues, the glory of praise and love, and walking on. Faith does not fail, we walk away. Jesus does not change, we have never given all, and when it comes to light the depth of sacrifice needed, we leave Him alone.

Liars and frauds always exist, those who claim to have arrived, who judge and condemn others. But Jesus people love and walk on.
God bless you

15 They have left the straight way and wandered off to follow the way of Balaam son of Beor, who loved the wages of wickedness.
2 Peter 2:15

12 Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse,
13 who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways,
14 who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil,
Proverbs 2:12-14

11 I guide you in the way of wisdom and lead you along straight paths.
12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered; when you run, you will not stumble.
13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; guard it well, for it is your life.
Prov 4:11-13

8 Lead me, O LORD, in your righteousness because of my enemies- make straight your way before me.
Psalm 5:8

33 Walk in all the way that the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live and prosper and prolong your days in the land that you will possess
Deut 5:33

11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.
Deut 30:11

3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,
4 for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:3-4

Are these verses ones own or alien, an impossible world beyond ones reach? Only with Jesus and learning and following can they become true. That is our way in Christ and His calling, though many unbelievers will cry impossible, because truly for them it is impossible.
God bless you

What you show me is verses concerning sanctification

that’s another topic, if anyone is not justified, thye can do all these works of sanctification, claim they love God all they want (like the jews did)

when it comes to judgment day, these works will be as filthy rags, because they failed to become justified. And hence suffer the fate they deserve, when Jesus said depart from me for I never knew you

 

[FollowHim]

May I make a simple observation. Jesus came to change their mindset?

So I tell you what God promised to give all his children

And you ask me what kind of Pipe dream what?

Jesus walked with them for 3 years because he had to change their mindset. And help them to understand, He was getting ready to send them into the world on their own with the HS

But what this has to do with me recieveing eternal life based on My faith? Can you explain?

Jesus came to change their lives, please for once, can you listen what I am saying and stop making these things up which I never said or even insinuated

I have to apologise for treating you like a pupil in a classroom, but above makes my point.
I am listening to what you are saying, the precise words you use, and I am not making things up.

The defense rests, and lets the jury decide, God bless you

 

[FollowHim]

What you show me is verses concerning sanctification

that’s another topic, if anyone is not justified, thye can do all these works of sanctification, claim they love God all they want (like the jews did)

when it comes to judgment day, these works will be as filthy rags, because they failed to become justified. And hence suffer the fate they deserve, when Jesus said depart from me for I never knew you

This is the point of the different views of faith. One view takes an event in time and in this event people move from lost to saved, sinner to saint.
Another view says a walk begins, with Jesus, eternal walk, sealed in the Kingdom that changes the one who walk with Jesus.
The point of the walk is eternity beginning in the soul of the believer, it is part of the beginning and the goal, there is no separation between justification and sanctification, it is all bound together.

So if you hold to the view of a one off event, you want to make the two issues separate, but if like me, your believe they are joined, one and the same from two perspectives, you want to talk about both, because both are relevant.

Paul could not write this

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8

Sowing to the sinful nature or to the Spirit is only a choice the believer can make, as an unbeliever has no communion with God.
So this example is to believers, who sow to the Spirit reap eternal life, while if you sow to the sinful nature, you reap destruction.

Now if salvation is set in a one off event, destruction is not the lake of fire, but if it is a walk with Jesus, this is very possible, if you leave the path.
I know from past experience those who see only security, and nothing of the depth of the walk of love, this is just testimony of believers sowing to eternal life through faith, and unbelievers sowing to the world and getting destruction.

I am commanded to shine my light, to raise the warning to those who want to follow Jesus, that we need to walk the path, sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life. But the elect know this, and do it, which is why they are the elect. God bless you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have to apologise for treating you like a pupil in a classroom, but above makes my point.
I am listening to what you are saying, the precise words you use, and I am not making things up.

The defense rests, and lets the jury decide, God bless you

Lol

Again you are talking about something different, your talking about discipleship

I am talking about justification

maybe one day you will realize this

for them yes, he had to change their mindset, do you think they were ready to go off on their own and start gods church after a few days?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is the point of the different views of faith. One view takes an event in time and in this event people move from lost to saved, sinner to saint.
Another view says a walk begins, with Jesus, eternal walk, sealed in the Kingdom that changes the one who walk with Jesus.
The point of the walk is eternity beginning in the soul of the believer, it is part of the beginning and the goal, there is no separation between justification and sanctification, it is all bound together.

So if you hold to the view of a one off event, you want to make the two issues separate, but if like me, your believe they are joined, one and the same from two perspectives, you want to talk about both, because both are relevant.

Paul could not write this

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8

Sowing to the sinful nature or to the Spirit is only a choice the believer can make, as an unbeliever has no communion with God.
So this example is to believers, who sow to the Spirit reap eternal life, while if you sow to the sinful nature, you reap destruction.

Now if salvation is set in a one off event, destruction is not the lake of fire, but if it is a walk with Jesus, this is very possible, if you leave the path.
I know from past experience those who see only security, and nothing of the depth of the walk of love, this is just testimony of believers sowing to eternal life through faith, and unbelievers sowing to the world and getting destruction.

I am commanded to shine my light, to raise the warning to those who want to follow Jesus, that we need to walk the path, sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life. But the elect know this, and do it, which is why they are the elect. God bless you

Notice how you skipped right over the post I made where I showed you where I got my faith from. That’s another habit I see a lot

It’s sad

 

[FollowHim]

You right, I believe this also

the problem is our justification is not based on how sanctified we become

our justification is by faith based on Gods love, not based on me, if it were based on me, I would never be justified, because I am a sinner who has and continues to fall short of the glory of God (perfection) but praise to God i was.. well here, let me let the apostle Paul tell you, maybe you will listen to him

Rom 3: being justified freely, by his Grace, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

now look there what did paul say

Being justified - it is an ongoing process, not a one time event, it continues, even today, I am being justified

what is the cost?

Freely, in the Greek the word is Dorian. The word means without cost, as a gift, freely given without paying

by his grace - grace comes from the Greek word charis it is where we get our word charity from, it is where I think most people have a problem with grace based theology, or try to change the meaning of what grace really is, it is no cost to the reciever, free (well it is free to the believer, it cost Jesus things we will never comprehend) it is basically charity, and one thing I have learned about proud people, they refuse to take anything by charity, they demand to pay for it, and if they can’t pay they will reject it,

this is why Jesus said we must become poor in spirit if we want to enter the kingdom of God

the word poor comes from the Greek ptochus. Which means destitute of wealth, reduced to begging, we call this in our day bankrupt, totally broke, unable to even feed ourselves, no place to call home, sleeping on the streets or wherever they can find a place. Jesus said this is where we need to be, if we want to enter Gods kingdom.

if we want a picture of this, Jesus gave us a picture, the sinner (tax collector) who got on his knees, so ashamed of his sins he was not able to even look up, calling out on God to shew mercy (charity) like the poor and destitute man who lays aside his pride, who comes and falls on their knees asking for charity so he can feed himself or his family, and what did Jesus say?

that man went home justified,

That is what God has given me and I am offering to share with other people,

but since I do this, and it offends so many, I am shamed, cut down, told I love my sin, and hate God

well who really hates God? It’s not me, I did what he said I should do, I became poor in spirit, and God is reminding me every day how poor I am without him, and when I forget, he is quick to remind me

I pray you find this one day, I really do

We are all tax collectors, sinners in need of forgiveness and mercy when we come to Jesus the first time.
If we continue as tax collectors in sin and bondage, then we have not been set free, or walk in faith, or know cleansing and purity.

If you are a drug addict, who has to steal to fund their habit, it is very obvious is you are cured, set free from the drug and no longer need to steal. If you are still addicted, still steal nothing has happened and it is all a pipe dream.

I read such a testimony from a woman whose family believed in faith with no action, and they were still dying and in sin. Then they repented, cleaned their life up, got straight and started putting into action Jesus's words. It was a new life, a new creation, truth and victory at work in a sinners heart turned into a saint.

Now the foolish will claim the addict is saved because of faith with no effect, while those in Christ know it is the victory that shows the power of the reality of Christ in the heart.

So I do not know what you believe you are saying or how it applies to me personally, I just know Jesus and follow Him. God bless you.

 

[Episkopos]

Notice how you skipped right over the post I made where I showed you where I got my faith from. That’s another habit I see a lot

It’s sad

What is sad is when people are looking for a permanent justification for NOT being obedient to Christ and the gospel (which is seen as works). But Jesus only gives the kingdom to they who bear the right kind of fruit.

The modern religious process works like this...a person justifies himself because of a religious decision he makes...or is induced to make based on public hype or hysteria....and then ANYTHING other than that....any other consideration...is seen as a works based salvation. Pretty slick scheme. And many are fooled by this.

But we are not to justify ourselves or go looking for verses in order to do that. That is what causes rejection from God. Only God can justify. Any biblical examples always shows God doing the justifying...never the person themselves. For instance it never says...and Abraham saw that he was justified..or the thief on the cross was then able to justify himself and claim to be eternally saved. And yet that's exactly what some do. So then people have been indoctrinated into thinking they can justify themselves once and for all based on their OWN decision. If that isn't a monumental presumption and conflict of interest then nothing is!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

We are all tax collectors, sinners in need of forgiveness and mercy when we come to Jesus the first time.
If we continue as tax collectors in sin and bondage, then we have not been set free, or walk in faith, or know cleansing and purity.

.

jesus said he went home justified

he did not say as long as he stops his sin he may be justified

the tax collector became bankrupt because he acknowledged where his sin took him

if he truly felt this and this led to his repentance, he would not continue

so,for you to say if he does this.. does what? If he did that he never became bankrupt man, come on

as John said, those born of God will not sin, why do you not believe these men who,spoke the word of God in scripture?

and way to totally ignore romans 3:there, did you think I would forget what I posted and to show you my faith and where I got it from?

 

[FollowHim]

Notice how you skipped right over the post I made where I showed you where I got my faith from. That’s another habit I see a lot

It’s sad

Hi EG. As a contributor to a forum I make observations as I desire, it is not a competition or even obligation.
I appreciate your approach, it makes me think and provokes a response, which can get dull, but maybe not how you would like.

By the way, the more you share the more I get to know you, which is illuminating, because it is not what I expected.
Today you made me realise how Peter wanted to stand back from Jesus and see what would happen at Jesus's trial.

Jesus knew Peter's heart and his impetuous nature, speaking often before he had worked things through. He loved Jesus to death, but had not yet taken that step to where his heart was. In my life I realised often I have ideas, and do not realise when things shift, I actually have to move and count the cost, and make things stick. Asking my wife to marry me was one. Accepting Jesus as my Lord was another. Letting go of my kids to risk their lives in dangerous situations was another.

Each revelation is another step into the life and into the Kingdom. Each step seems small and insignificant, but can lead to the point were someone holds a gun to our heads and asks us if we love Jesus. And the answer in Gods grace is yes, and amen, and we can go to be with Him.

I know the elect will understand this, Praise the Lord, because walking in Him has many such steps in our walk, Amen.

 

[Timtofly]

This is the point of the different views of faith. One view takes an event in time and in this event people move from lost to saved, sinner to saint.
Another view says a walk begins, with Jesus, eternal walk, sealed in the Kingdom that changes the one who walk with Jesus.
The point of the walk is eternity beginning in the soul of the believer, it is part of the beginning and the goal, there is no separation between justification and sanctification, it is all bound together.

So if you hold to the view of a one off event, you want to make the two issues separate, but if like me, your believe they are joined, one and the same from two perspectives, you want to talk about both, because both are relevant.

Paul could not write this

8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Gal 6:8

Sowing to the sinful nature or to the Spirit is only a choice the believer can make, as an unbeliever has no communion with God.
So this example is to believers, who sow to the Spirit reap eternal life, while if you sow to the sinful nature, you reap destruction.

Now if salvation is set in a one off event, destruction is not the lake of fire, but if it is a walk with Jesus, this is very possible, if you leave the path.
I know from past experience those who see only security, and nothing of the depth of the walk of love, this is just testimony of believers sowing to eternal life through faith, and unbelievers sowing to the world and getting destruction.

I am commanded to shine my light, to raise the warning to those who want to follow Jesus, that we need to walk the path, sow to the Spirit and reap eternal life. But the elect know this, and do it, which is why they are the elect. God bless you

You are correct on security.

Riding the train fast instead of walking, does not prevent sin. You can still sin and confess while secure and moving fast. If sin builds up, the conductor is not going to let you or sin continue. You will be put off at the next stop, to figure things out in your life, so you can get back on track.