Is love more important than faith?

[Giuliano]

Our apprehension, or misapprehension as the case may be, of the character or nature of God directly and proportionately affects how much we believe His promises toward us, and toward others. Ironically, many believe God will be good to others, but not to themselves.

I know you're right, but I have to wonder why some would believe God will be good to others but not to them. What brings that about?

 

[Giuliano]

We wouldn't just improperly love the True God if we had the wrong ideas about him, but we wouldn't be loving the True God at all if we had the wrong ideas about him. We instead would be loving that person those wrong ideas describes. That why it's so important to know the truth about The True God and the truth concerning how he will save his creation.(mankind) The truth that's in his word, which is why The True God tells us to search for that truth in his word as though we're searching for gold or treasure.

I think idolatry hurts us more than it hurts God. Having wrong ideas about God and worshiping a being who exists in our minds and not in reality damages us. Even the commandment given to us to avoid idols was given to us because He loves us. The commandment to love God is also meant to benefit us. It's not God being selfish.

 

[Brakelite]

I know you're right, but I have to wonder why some would believe God will be good to others but not to them. What brings that about?

Probably several reasons. One I think more common than most would possibly be the idea that pastors, teachers, Bible workers etc, those in our church who have "authority' like the elders and deacons etc are more "worthy" because they have accomplished more. That sense so many have that we need to earn God's blessings rather than by faith accept His promises.
Sort of like what goes on in our minds sometimes after we take a hit and fall into sin. Rather than repenting immediately we are convicted, we wait. We feel guilty and don't pray. We stay home from church for a time. Then, when the immediate guilt and sense of shame or embarrassment abates somewhat, then we approach God for forgiveness, because then we feel that because we are no longer actively sinning, we will gain His favor. We are then inadvertantly seeking God's favor on the basis of our performance. Yet we wouldn't dream of thinking others are doing likewise because they are more holy than us. And again, we are then basing their relationship with God on the basis of their works.
Grace in it's purest and most beautiful can be so difficult at times to appreciate due to our innate penchant for wanting to contribute something toward our salvation.

 

[DPMartin]

Hello everyone.
I was recently shocked when I read a verse that I have read who knows how many times in my 42 years as a Christ follower, but had never connected to it's possible significance, until this last time I read it yesterday, because of a topic being discussed here on the forum.

The verse is 1st Corinthians 13:13, "But now abide faith, hope and love, these three, but the greatest of these is LOVE.

There are other verses that I barely remember seemed to indicate the same idea of LOVE trumping (No, not that Trump :)) faith.

1st Corinthians 13:1-3, "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angesl, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong, or a clanging cymbal.

And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries, and all knowledge; and if I have all knowledge ;and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains, BUT DO NOT HAVE LOVE, I AM NOTHING.

Another words what we have decided to believe about our faith, could be less important than to love God and all of man the best we can.

If you have any "BIBLICAL IMPUT," not just opinion, I'd love to hear from you.
I'm going to begin a study, as I have a pretty large library of study material, and this could be significant for me, and answer a lot of recent questions that being at different forums I joined have been brought up by, and confused me about peoples attitudes and what it is that really saves us as being born again.

There's a verse that says love covers a multitude of sins, and I know there are others.
This is just eating at me now.
I can't wait to start my study tomorrow just for me.
I don't try to force my views or opinions on anyone, as I don't see it as a way to be kind to people and I need to let them grow in the Grace and leading of the Holy Spirit.

Thank you for taking the time to stop by and read this and possibly respond.
My name is OLIGOS.
Any thoughts greatly appreciated

what you don't know that one doesn't believe and or trust (faith) that which one hates?


2Th 2:10　 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.　

you even have to receive the love of the Truth, to trust and believe the truth. so therefore the faith is received also, because one must receive the love of the Truth.

God has loved the fulfillment of His Word which is the Truth long before man existed, so the love of the Truth is from where?

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

What I have learned while the coronavirus is upon us is that people are scared because things have changed so much, and our routines have been taken from us and or hope of a normal life and being able to plan is gone for now, so in our daily activities if we go out, be kind and loving to people and be positive and reassuring that things will get better.

We're here to be the SALT and LIGHT to the world, and no time is better than now to share Christ in LOVE.

This coronavirus is a gift to Christians who truly want to bring Christ into peoples lives and bring to them the peace and love only Christ can give them.

God bless you all.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Giuliano]

Probably several reasons. One I think more common than most would possibly be the idea that pastors, teachers, Bible workers etc, those in our church who have "authority' like the elders and deacons etc are more "worthy" because they have accomplished more. That sense so many have that we need to earn God's blessings rather than by faith accept His promises.
Sort of like what goes on in our minds sometimes after we take a hit and fall into sin. Rather than repenting immediately we are convicted, we wait. We feel guilty and don't pray. We stay home from church for a time. Then, when the immediate guilt and sense of shame or embarrassment abates somewhat, then we approach God for forgiveness, because then we feel that because we are no longer actively sinning, we will gain His favor. We are then inadvertantly seeking God's favor on the basis of our performance. Yet we wouldn't dream of thinking others are doing likewise because they are more holy than us. And again, we are then basing their relationship with God on the basis of their works.
Grace in it's purest and most beautiful can be so difficult at times to appreciate due to our innate penchant for wanting to contribute something toward our salvation.

I can see it. If we feel guilty and ashamed, we are going to feel unworthy. Then too, there are some who lie to God about being sorry. They feel sorry about being punished, they are not genuinely sorry for what they did. They can cry and weep as loudly as they want; but if it's fake repentance, it's not going to work. Wanting to escape punishment is love of self -- not love of neighbor -- so they continue to carry the burden of guilt and shame. How unfortunate for them. It really is easier to repent genuinely and get rid of it.

 

[Brakelite]

It really is easier to repent genuinely and get rid of it.

And if we have any self doubt as to the genuineness of our repentance, we can always ask God, no, seek Him earnestly and please for Him to grant us repentance... The kind of repentance that leads not only to forgiveness, but a change of heart and a change of character and behaviour.

 

[Giuliano]

And if we have any self doubt as to the genuineness of our repentance, we can always ask God, no, seek Him earnestly and please for Him to grant us repentance... The kind of repentance that leads not only to forgiveness, but a change of heart and a change of character and behaviour.

It really does change to a change of behavior. When I realize how my actions have hurt others -- when I admit that to myself without trying to dodge , without trying to put the blame on someone else -- I know I don't want to hurt them again. I don't do those things again.

 

[Giuliano]

What I have learned while the coronavirus is upon us is that people are scared because things have changed so much, and our routines have been taken from us and or hope of a normal life and being able to plan is gone for now, so in our daily activities if we go out, be kind and loving to people and be positive and reassuring that things will get better.

We're here to be the SALT and LIGHT to the world, and no time is better than now to share Christ in LOVE.

This coronavirus is a gift to Christians who truly want to bring Christ into peoples lives and bring to them the peace and love only Christ can give them.

God bless you all.
My name is OLIGOS

I liked what this kid did.

 

[Brakelite]

It really does change to a change of behavior. When I realize how my actions have hurt others -- when I admit that to myself without trying to dodge , without trying to put the blame on someone else -- I know I don't want to hurt them again. I don't do those things again.

Amen. And yet this change can only be realised through the grace and power of God. It doesn't come about by our own strength our determination... Although there are aspects of outward behavior that can be modified though self discipline... But the change of heart, the born again nature that comes from above, that is what we all so desperately need, particularly in these stressful times. Then, through the indwelling Spirit of God we are empowered to minister hope and faith in others, encouraging the lost and hopeless, the sinful and discouraged, to seek the kingdom and His righteousness. What a wonderful God we serve. So gracious, merciful, long-suffering. May we all come to Him in these times of doubt and uncertainty and find hope.

 

[Brakelite]

Sitting here on Sabbath afternoon, unable to attend a non existent church at the present time I ruminating on the present crisis and our reaction to it. As of this morning I now have an unemployed nephew camping in my back yard. Now I could have refused to let him come. He was not only unemployed, but homeless. I could have said, find help somewhere else...I shall pray for you and I have the faith to believe that God shall bless you. I may have been 100% convinced that God would do just that. I may have the faith to remove all the obstacles to his homeless situation, as well as God providing for him a job, just as He has done for me over the years. And I could have claimed that my prayers and hope for my nephew was an expression of love.
But Jesus told us how to love. And it wasn't through believing God would work in someone else's life without our input. Our love is expressed through obedience. In this case,
KJV Isaiah 58
6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

I cannot claim to be exercising faith or love if I deny anyone that which I am in the position to supply. Love though obedience to God's word is indeed the greatest virtue.
And it is the same regarding our relationship to God. How can we claim to believe and have faith, and even be saved by faith if the love we claim we have for Him is devoid of obedience?

KJV 1 John 2
To Know God Is to Obey
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Hi all.
I am the original poster, and have been reading all your responses, and am very grateful for each one, as well as looking back at my 40+ years of faith and really taking this to heart because for me it was an important question to ask myself for my own growth and my own walk with the Lord.
As I look back many decades and analyze my progression of faith in this area I remember in the movie Jesus, Jesus asking Peter if he was man enough to LOVE, and I realize that He meant GODLY love, not human love.

What I realized many years later, that I didn't have a clue what GODLY LOVE was at all, even though I had read ABOUT it many times over and over in scripture, life was busy and I could only take in and study so much while being married, raising my children, and working and keeping life moving forward.
But after being retired for quite a while, I started studying much more than I ever had before, and this idea of Godly love started becoming more and more important as if the Holy Spirit was "Nudging" me in that direction.

I started feeling a kind of emptiness in not understanding Godly love, Not just for God, but for those around me. Sure I knew how to love my children and and other relatives and liked my friends and neighbors, but God's word was talking about something more than that - something super-natural that for me the only way to understand was to start praying about it because I had started to become emotional about it, and not knowing caused me to break down one night and start crying, because I felt my heart feel like it was breaking and I got down on my knees and wept and prayed and told God I wanted to know how to Love Him His way, and love those around me His way, and that's where a new area of my life began to change.
I still don't have it all figures out yet, but I am definetly on the right path continuously and enjoy people so much more now, and am so much more patient and accepting of people now too, not perfect as I said before, but way better than years ago.

So which is more important, FAITH or LOVE??
For me I'd say both are equally important, just in different ways.
Faith is where my walk with Christ began, but like so many other things, faith led me to a GODLY LOVE, just like I was lead to so many other Godly parts of my faith that are all equally important.
Like with my body I couldn't function nearly as well if I couldn't speak, or if I couldn't hear.
The more complete we become in Christ, the more God can use us for His purpose, to love ourselves, love God His way and love others Gods way, to draw them to Christ in a kind of natural unpretentious way, or fake way, because that is truly who we have become by God leading us to that place of faith.

Now, I feel so much happier in my faith, have a much happier outlook on life, and enjoy people everywhere I go so much more.
Being around people is so much more enjoyable now and I look forward to that with a new found happiness.

I don't know if that works for anyone else, but it works great for me, and thank you all for your responses to help me get to this conclusion.

God bless you all, and may He keep you safe and healthy.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Hisman]

Hi all.
I am the original poster, and have been reading all your responses, and am very grateful for each one, as well as looking back at my 40+ years of faith and really taking this to heart because for me it was an important question to ask myself for my own growth and my own walk with the Lord.
As I look back many decades and analyze my progression of faith in this area I remember in the movie Jesus, Jesus asking Peter if he was man enough to LOVE, and I realize that He meant GODLY love, not human love.

What I realized many years later, that I didn't have a clue what GODLY LOVE was at all, even though I had read ABOUT it many times over and over in scripture, life was busy and I could only take in and study so much while being married, raising my children, and working and keeping life moving forward.
But after being retired for quite a while, I started studying much more than I ever had before, and this idea of Godly love started becoming more and more important as if the Holy Spirit was "Nudging" me in that direction.

I started feeling a kind of emptiness in not understanding Godly love, Not just for God, but for those around me. Sure I knew how to love my children and and other relatives and liked my friends and neighbors, but God's word was talking about something more than that - something super-natural that for me the only way to understand was to start praying about it because I had started to become emotional about it, and not knowing caused me to break down one night and start crying, because I felt my heart feel like it was breaking and I got down on my knees and wept and prayed and told God I wanted to know how to Love Him His way, and love those around me His way, and that's where a new area of my life began to change.
I still don't have it all figures out yet, but I am definetly on the right path continuously and enjoy people so much more now, and am so much more patient and accepting of people now too, not perfect as I said before, but way better than years ago.

So which is more important, FAITH or LOVE??
For me I'd say both are equally important, just in different ways.
Faith is where my walk with Christ began, but like so many other things, faith led me to a GODLY LOVE, just like I was lead to so many other Godly parts of my faith that are all equally important.
Like with my body I couldn't function nearly as well if I couldn't speak, or if I couldn't hear.
The more complete we become in Christ, the more God can use us for His purpose, to love ourselves, love God His way and love others Gods way, to draw them to Christ in a kind of natural unpretentious way, or fake way, because that is truly who we have become by God leading us to that place of faith.

Now, I feel so much happier in my faith, have a much happier outlook on life, and enjoy people everywhere I go so much more.
Being around people is so much more enjoyable now and I look forward to that with a new found happiness.

I don't know if that works for anyone else, but it works great for me, and thank you all for your responses to help me get to this conclusion.

God bless you all, and may He keep you safe and healthy.
My name is OLIGOS

Excellent post...I agree, they are equally important.
Be blessed ....

 

[mailmandan]

As I previously mentioned, after we have been saved through faith, love certainly is the greatest quality of the three because God is love and it outlasts them all. Long after faith and hope are no longer necessary, love will still be the principle that governs all that God and his saints are and do throughout eternity in the new heaven and new earth. :)

Upon further reflection on 1 Corinthians 13, I've been thinking that even though we will no longer need faith "in what is unseen - 2 Corinthians 4:18; Hebrews 11:1" (because now we see it) our trust and reliance in Jesus Christ I believe will continue. Also, even though we will no longer be seeking the "blessed hope of Jesus Christ appearing - Romans 8:24; Titus 2:13" (because he has appeared and we will be with Him forever) there may very well be additional promises to anticipate that will allow us to exercise our faith and hope in eternity. This is a great topic! :)

 

[Joseph77]

Without faith, it is impossible to please God.
Without a pure heart, no one will see God.
Without obedience by faith, no one can claim they love God.

Hello everyone.
I was recently shocked when I read a verse that I have read who knows how many times in my 42 years as a Christ follower, but had never connected to it's possible significance, until this last time I read it yesterday, because of a topic being discussed here on the forum.

The verse is 1st Corinthians 13:13, "But now abide faith, hope and love, these three, but the greatest of these is LOVE.

There are other verses that I barely remember seemed to indicate the same idea of LOVE trumping faith.