Regeneration before or after saving faith

[Preacher4Truth]

#713 you wrote: 'He knew the opposite to be true.

Yes, contrary to your teachings, God did not assume the Israelites would obey him. God is not a pushover nor is he naive as you make him out to be. He is omniscient. He was fully aware they could not keep his commandments.

Hence this is why his Son was slain before the foundation of the world;

Ephesians 1.'

My fault there, should have been Revelation 13:8 as in the KJV.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Once again you reveal you lack any gift of holy spirit.
FYI GOD didn't choose any nation until after The Tower of Babel confusion of languages and breakup of the landmass.
Then he chose Abram because Abram was descended from Eve and carried her SEED-DNA.
All other people became pagans no matter where on Earth they ended up. Most are still pagans.
The Bible is only concerned with Eve's SEED-DNA and Satan's attempts to kill them all off to prevent the birth of Jesus who is Eve's final SEED who will destroy Satan.
Jesus revealed that despite giving the Jews a set of laws to live and be acceptable by and a system of atonement the Jews had lost their position as the Chosen Race due to them constantly worshipping idols and killing GOD's prophets.

Nope, sorry, more error with loads of sensationalism.

God chooses no one based on their DNA, nor for any other reason other than by his counsel, will, and purpose. John 8:37 denies your teachings showing they're false.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

We do not blame God for.mans sin.
God created everything good Gen1:31.
Men are born dead in sin and condemned .
You fail to understand this fact Jane. You cannot get to truth starting from error.

How do you blame something that has no sovereignty?
It's like you're picked up a rock, dropped it mid-air, and then said it's the rock's fault for falling.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Going to respectfully 100% diagree with you there.

No, sorry, your comment isn't respectful at all, it is instead disrespectful. Basically you're saying I'm lying.

But that is OK, I totally expect this and there is no surprise.

In fact there is one here on this site who can verify this, because he is one. There are more from other sites as well. There are a few on another site that I belong to as well, in fact two other sites.

Please tell me plainly about the people God predestined to Hell & eternal torture, with no chance of salvation ever. Even plainly acknowledge that they exist.

I've already done this, why should I explain this to you again? I've already explained it, and it is clearly in His word.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

1. I never said they were
2. I disagree. Biblical calvinism is correct in many part. but seriously lacking in others.


Actually both from what I see are full of holes and problems. Although I do agree. Calvinists are my brothers and sisters. Because their faith is in Christ. They just mix up how they came to that faith in the first place. Because for some reason they fear faith assurance and trust in another person as somehow saving themselves.

EG,
Thanks for your response. In time I believe we will believe almost identical truths.
I agree with much of what you post, and then you offer things that differ.
We should be able to work through some of these things

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

How do you blame something that has no sovereignty?
It's like you're picked up a rock, dropped it mid-air, and then said it's the rock's fault for falling.

Jane,
I do not do philosophical speculation.
Such analogies fail.
God clearly told Adam the consequences of sin and rebellion.
God was not joking.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No, sorry, your comment isn't respectful at all, it is instead disrespectful. Basically you're saying I'm lying.

But that is OK, I totally expect this and there is no surprise.

Not at all: rather I have had a much different experience. I do really try hard to be respectful here, even when you blatantly do not.

I've already done this, why should I explain this to you again? I've already explained it, and it is clearly in His word.

You are not SoverignGrace, to whom I addressed the question.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Jane,
I do not do philosophical speculation.
Such analogies fail.
God clearly told Adam the consequences of sin and rebellion.
God was not joking.

I believe I have sovereignty: hence I am responsible for my sins.

However, if I do not have sovereignty (such as believed in Calvinism), then I would not at all be responsible for any of my actions: good or bad. I would just be a falling rock. Hence my question.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Not at all:

Oh, but you were, you were completely disrespectful and still are.

rather I have had a much different experience.

Your ineffectiveness doesn't necessitate others are ineffective. :)

I can understand why and can vouch for you though. Most of it has to do with the fact your beliefs embrace conflicting gospels, Mormonism, "another testament of Jesus Christ" (note Galatians 1:8-10) is wavering, compromising, pandering, then you become elusive when questioned because there is much to hide.

But you know the truth doesn't need to hide and be elusive when questioned, right? Of course, you know this. Yet you do in fact hide and you know this to be true.

All of this is enough to show you don't preach the truth and explains why your efforts remain ineffective.

I do really try hard to be respectful here,

Going to have to disagree because it isn't true, at least towards those who share truth with you.

You show kindness to all varieties of error and then oppose the truth consistently then show disrespect by asking for answers over and over, many times over after you have already been answered.

even when you blatantly do not.

I've been respectful toward you and not blatantly disrespectful. But your last two posts? They are totally disrespectful, and purposely so.

You think it is disrespectful to ask you to 'fess up your beliefs while you refuse to do so, all the while demanding people answer you.

That too is disrespectful behavior.

You cannot endure examination or being shown your errors, nor can your teachings stand being questioned. That is the opposite of true Gospel preaching. True Gospel preaching and truth itself is out in the open, and doesn't hide. But you do in fact hide your beliefs. Note 2 Corinthians 4:1-2. I am also reminded of 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.

You are not SoverignGrace, to whom I addressed the question.

Yet you took time to respond in order to be disrespectful. :)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

EG,
Thanks for your response. In time I believe we will believe almost identical truths.
I agree with much of what you post, and then you offer things that differ.
We should be able to work through some of these things

Oh we can, and have,, I get along with most who agree with you

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not at all: rather I have had a much different experience. I do really try hard to be respectful here, even when you blatantly do not.

You are not SoverignGrace, to whom I addressed the question.

Are you speaking with preacher?

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Are you speaking with preacher?

The my questions were posted to SoverginGrace, not Preacher. Obviously Preacher can state his thoughts, but I am more interested in SoverginGrace's answer.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The my questions were posted to SoverginGrace, not Preacher. Obviously Preacher can state his thoughts, but I am more interested in SoverginGrace's answer.

It’s all good I just could not see who you were talking to

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Oh, but you were, you were completely disrespectful and still are.



Your ineffectiveness doesn't necessitate others are ineffective. :)

I can understand why and can vouch for you though. Most of it has to do with the fact your beliefs embrace conflicting gospels, Mormonism, "another testament of Jesus Christ" (note Galatians 1:8-10) is wavering, compromising, pandering, then you become elusive when questioned because there is much to hide.

But you know the truth doesn't need to hide and be elusive when questioned, right? Of course, you know this. Yet you do in fact hide and you know this to be true.

All of this is enough to show you don't preach the truth and explains why your efforts remain ineffective.



Going to have to disagree because it isn't true, at least towards those who share truth with you.

You show kindness to all varieties of error and then oppose the truth consistently then show disrespect by asking for answers over and over, many times over after you have already been answered.



I've been respectful toward you and not blatantly disrespectful. But your last two posts? They are totally disrespectful, and purposely so.

You think it is disrespectful to ask you to 'fess up your beliefs while you refuse to do so, all the while demanding people answer you.

That too is disrespectful behavior.

You cannot endure examination or being shown your errors, nor can your teachings stand being questioned. That is the opposite of true Gospel preaching. True Gospel preaching and truth itself is out in the open, and doesn't hide. But you do in fact hide your beliefs. Note 2 Corinthians 4:1-2. I am also reminded of 2 Corinthians 11:13-15.



Yet you took time to respond in order to be disrespectful. :)

Constant flames from you!!! I don't even know where to start with this.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Interestingly according to his nature @Eternally Grateful is still sowing discord by pandering to others as long as he can get a jab in on me he will pander to them. :)

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Constant flames from you!!! I don't even know where to start with this.

Flames? Not at all.

You don't know where to start? I do. How about with apologizing for being disrespectful and implying I've lied in your response? :)

That response of yours was where the inflammatory comments began.

Try remembering my moniker: preacher4truth, as that is what I will always tell you, confront you with, hold you to, which causes you to be uncomfortable, thus your responses.

 

[Renniks]

Oh stop you applied it to the lost AND misapplied it to the saved. You misused the text and I showed how. Own it like a man.

Where did I apply it to any category of person? No interaction with what I just said, just "I'm right and you aren't.?"

 

[Renniks]

This is flat out wrong. You are dangerous with a bible in your hands.

Ok, so why is it wrong?

 

[Renniks]

Again, we are procreated.

God says he knit us together in the womb. Our parents don't create us. What happened to his sovereignty? Did he suddenly drop the ball and have to have someone else do the creating?

 

[Renniks]

We do not blame God for.mans sin.
God created everything good Gen1:31.
Men are born dead in sin and condemned .
You fail to understand this fact Jane. You cannot get to truth starting from error.

Yes, he did create everything good, but according to ya'll, he caused the fall by his decree, so if that's true, yeah, then he would be to blame.