Omnipresence of God

[marks]

but imo the point is we tend to make laws instead of guidelines,

If I understand, I'd respond, both look to ourselves.

 

[bbyrd009]

I think that is where we begin.

dunno who you mean by "we" there, but sure. That is also where we end, where we "kill" Immanuel, when we first do it the worlds way instead of the little kid way i guess
Christ died for our sins

 

[marks]

many will come from east and west might be interpreted "ppl other than those with whom you are acquainted and approve of will be there at table with Abraham."

Myself, I think it means that some will come from over this way, and some will come from over that way.

I wonder, If God wanted us to know there would be a feast, and that some would come from this direction on the planet, and some would come from that direction on the planet, how do you suppose He would say that so we would know that was what He meant?

 

[bbyrd009]

Me, I never tire of seeking from God. But what is it you are saying here?

ha well again i am not saying anything, ok, but i suggest that the passage is describing getting tired of "what is it?" and craving Facts, so we can say that we "know" something

 

[marks]

dunno who you mean by "we" there, but sure. That is also where we end, where we "kill" Immanuel, when we first do it the worlds way instead of the little kid way i guess
Christ died for our sins

OK, maybe not we.

What I'm saying is that to begin to know God, become as a small child, that's how I see things.

No one killed Christ, He laid down His life for us.

 

[bbyrd009]

Satan misapplies Scripture, and rather than finding fault in the devil, you find the fault in the Bible?

That makes no sense to me.

bc that is not what he meant, or for that matter even said!
at least i read that diff

hence the whole exercise i guess
we all speak in tongues, even using the same lexicon, we all have basically "private definitions" that comport with our level of understanding

 

[marks]

ha well again i am not saying anything, ok, but i suggest that the passage is describing getting tired of "what is it?" and craving Facts, so we can say that we "know" something

So it's all about how we think and feel about ourselves? That seems limited. I think there's more to it than that. I believe that there is Absolute Truth, and that God wants us to know.

He who says he knows doesn't . . . begin there, but don't end there. I don't recommend staying in ignorance, repudiating all truth.

 

[bbyrd009]

Myself, I think it means that some will come from over this way, and some will come from over that way.

I wonder, If God wanted us to know there would be a feast, and that some would come from this direction on the planet, and some would come from that direction on the planet, how do you suppose He would say that so we would know that was what He meant?

ah well where would they be "coming" to exactly? A table, right? But then i am not trying to "know" stuff for tomorrow anymore...it just spoils i guess :)

 

[bbyrd009]

So it's all about how we think and feel about ourselves? That seems limited. I think there's more to it than that. I believe that there is Absolute Truth, and that God wants us to know.

He who says he knows doesn't . . . begin there, but don't end there. I don't recommend staying in ignorance, repudiating all truth.

unfortunately in declaring an Absolute Truth that is not really true at all, i guess that is exactly what we end up doing anyway.

No son of man may die for another's sins
Christ died for our sins

both are true, right

 

[DNB]

I'm just saying . . . let's rise above this sort of thing.
They saw God. Do you believe this means what it says? This is one of the more serious questions of all. If you believe what it says, as I do, the discussion goes one way. If you think it means something else, then what?

I believe it means exactly what it said, that they saw the Angel of the LORD, God's messenger to humanity, the One Who would be incarnated, Who would be named Jesus.

I find so much of the time that doctrinal disagreements seem to always come down to someone saying, well, it says this, but it actually means that. Is this one of those times?

Much love!

I can't follow you, marks, we're going in circles. You said it means that it was 'God', I said it can't, and I explained why and what I thought that the true meaning was, and now you ask me to explain why it means something else...
...and now you say it means an 'Angel', who in fact, is 'Jesus', and you claim that that's exactly what it says, when in actuality it says 'God', not Jesus or Angel?
And then you accuse me of not comprehending your gist, ...who possibly can?
You clearly and unequivocally have not 'just read the passage'.
I'm not following you, marks?

 

[bbyrd009]

So it's all about how we think and feel about ourselves?

i would say its more about our interactions with others, or with truth itself

dang, gotta work, manana guys

 

[marks]

bc that is not what he meant, or for that matter even said!
at least i read that diff

hence the whole exercise i guess
we all speak in tongues, even using the same lexicon, we all have basically "private definitions" that comport with our level of understanding

Let's expand it a little . . .


Quoting scripture does not make it the Word of God, according to amadeus.

Well, OK, you're right, I'm wrong here. Yes. Quoting Scripture does not make Scripture the Word of God, it's Scripture because it's the Word of God. Whether someone quotes, the devil, me, you, whomever, quoting does not make the Bible God's Word, because it already is quite apart from us.

 

[marks]

No son of man may die for another's sins
Christ died for our sins

both are true, right

Only one of these is in the Bible.

 

[marks]

I can't follow you, marks, we're going in circles. You said it means that it was 'God', I said it can't, and I explained why and what I thought that the true meaning was, and now you ask me to explain why it means something else...
...and now you say it means an 'Angel', who in fact, is 'Jesus', and you claim that that's exactly what it says, when in actuality it says 'God', not Jesus or Angel?
And then you accuse me of not comprehending your gist, ...who possibly can?
You clearly and unequivocally have not 'just read the passage'.
I'm not following you, marks?

Your explanation is that they didn't actually see God, am I misunderstanding you? And that you think they didn't see God because you think they couldn't have.

I'm saying that I believe they did in fact see God.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying.

Much love!

 

[DNB]

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Jesus saying "God is a Spirit" is not testifying that He does not have a celestial body. Jesus was talking to the Samaritan woman at the well in answering her question about where they are supposed to go to worship God at. Jesus said a time will come when worshippers shall come to God the Father to worship IN spirit and IN truth, and so God is a Spirit is inferring His omnipresence in the reality of the believer where He is with us always as IN the Holy Spirit & IN Jesus Christ so we can come to God the Father anywhere to worship Him by coming to and honoring the Son in worship. John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13

As it is, and only God can help us see the truth in His words to grasp this; but the Father has a celestial body as the Son did before His incarnation for why the request to make man in "our image" and "after our likeness" in Genesis 1:26 was made and yet when God did perform the act by having made man in His image and after His likeness in Genesis 1:27, He did so as the Three Witnesses within the One God in establishing a word in creation by the Word of God.

Jesus did say that in the future, we will not need to ask Him to ask the Father for He will openly show us the Father to ask Him directly.

John 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. 25 These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father. 26 At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you: 27 For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God. 28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

Hard to imagine but if we picture being in the bosom of God for where He is, would we be inside of that Triune God to see Two of the Three Persons in that One God? I do wonder, and maybe we will all know for sure when we see Him face to face and not just the Son's.

As it is, God is a Spirit is being applied wrong by many believers and churches when it is about being able to worship God anywhere now and when the request for us to be created was in a plural sense, signifying that God has a body too, we really should believe that, regardless of being hard to understand.

Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Enow, your entering into a realm that you know nothing about. You've speculated everything that you said, and yet, all in defiance of the maxims that we know about God, i.e. Transcendent and Omnipresent (cannot be circumscribed in time and space). God is Spirit, invisible and resides in unapproachable light.

1 Timothy 6:16-17. who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Romans 1:20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

 

[DNB]

Your explanation is that they didn't actually see God, am I misunderstanding you? And that you think they didn't see God because you think they couldn't have.

I'm saying that I believe they did in fact see God.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying.

Much love!

I don't know why I'm still trying....
You just explained my position, ...so then, why in the world did your last post ask me to explain my position?
Circles?

 

[marks]

I don't know why I'm still trying....
You just explained my position, ...so then, why in the world did your last post ask me to explain my position?
Circles?

What I don't understand is why this statement that they saw God shouldn't be accepted as true at it's face value?

Why should we not think that they actually saw the God of Israel?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Enow, your entering into a realm that you know nothing about. You've speculated everything that you said, and yet, all in defiance of the maxims that we know about God, i.e. Transcendent and Omnipresent (cannot be circumscribed in time and space). God is Spirit, invisible and resides in unapproachable light.

1 Timothy 6:16-17. who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Colossians 1:15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Romans 1:20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Just saw this . . .

What you appear to be doing here is using one passage to negate another passage. I propose that we should find the way that both are actually true statements.

No one has seen God. They saw God. How can both be true? Are both true? Is one false? Not false, but symbolic? Why this one, and not that one? IF symbolic, which one? How do we know?

Much love!

 

[Enow]

Enow, your entering into a realm that you know nothing about. You've speculated everything that you said, and yet, all in defiance of the maxims that we know about God, i.e. Transcendent and Omnipresent (cannot be circumscribed in time and space). God is Spirit, invisible and resides in unapproachable light.

I appreciate your candor in wanting to edify me, but do consider these rebuttals for how you are applying those verses to mean.

1 Timothy 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

That is about Jesus Christ, the God Whom men have seen and we will see.

Colossians 1:15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

How can He that be the "image" of the invisible God? Would He not be invisible too?

I submit this to you that the use of the word "invisible" only means not presently seen. We see proof here about Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

For your next reference, God's act in creation are the invisible attributes that has been clearly seen.

Romans 1:20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Another one:

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

So invisible does not mean God does not have an image but just not presently seen.

God is a Spirit is still referring to His omnipresence and in light of the Good News when He is in us, it should not be hard to fathom that Jesus was talking about God is not limited to a specific place of worship so that we can worship God the Father anywhere now as believers by coming to & honoring the Son in worship as per John 14:6 & John 5:22-23 & Philippians 2:5-13

 

[DNB]

What I don't understand is why this statement that they saw God shouldn't be accepted as true at it's face value?

Why should we not think that they actually saw the God of Israel?

Much love!

For the reasons that I gave, ...for the 10th time!

 

[DNB]

Just saw this . . .

What you appear to be doing here is using one passage to negate another passage. I propose that we should find the way that both are actually true statements.

No one has seen God. They saw God. How can both be true? Are both true? Is one false? Not false, but symbolic? Why this one, and not that one? IF symbolic, which one? How do we know?

Much love!

decide for yourself