Are Doctrines affected by Modern Versions

[Willie T]

Let me put it this way: overall have you seen as much attention on one particular version? Willie T (whom I have no problem with and I like his postings) made some claims about KJV only folks. To some degree he may be right... But have you heard anything about "NIV only" folks? Or "ASV ONLY" folks?

It's kind of like Donald Trump: many follow him adamantly or despise him harshly.

But there is no other version that gathers both positive and negative attention. That's my observation over the last 18-20 years as a discussion board participant.

My hope was just to say that some of us are not that unreasonable.

For clarification: My problems aren't with people preferring the KJV. (I was also raised on it) But, I can't accept the worship of the book as the one and only message God was (is) capable of delivering to the creatures He created.

 

[FHII]

I see what you are saying. But I think there is also a difference, as you have pointed out, between KJV Only, and what I like to call KJV Preferred. KJV Onlyism are those that I see as militant about it to the point that you are a heretic if you use anything else. There is quite a bit of this. For example, have you ever seen the bumper sticker, "If it ain't King James, it ain't Bible"? I have on more than one occasion in more than one state.

The reason you don't see this with other translations is I do not think they exist, at least not in noticeable quantities. I've never heard someone be militant about the NIV, ASV, NASB, ESV, et all. Have you?

So I do attack the nonsense of KJV Onlyism, but I have zero problems with KJV Preferred.

Agreed, and I hope that others understand that. Unfortunately, KJV Preferred often get lumped in with the militant KJVO and that is wrong.

Honestly, I have never seen that bumper sticker! I live in Maryland, but have spent substantial time in many regions of the country.

Put me with the KJV Preferred group. If anyone I am discussing the Bible with gives me a verse from another version, I probably won't flinch but might just bring up what the KJV says... Not to prove it wrong, but to show where I am coming from. And I only do it if it's important and hopefully without the intent of saying it's wrong just because it isn't KJ.

There are exceptions though... But I am not one just to say the KJ is right cause it is the KJ...

 

[reformed1689]

Honestly, I have never seen that bumper sticker! I live in Maryland, but have spent substantial time in many regions of the country.

They do exist "If It Ain't King James It Ain't Bible"

 

[FHII]

For clarification: My problems aren't with people preferring the KJV. (I was also raised on it) But, I can't accept the worship of the book as the one and only message God was (is) capable of delivering to the creatures He made.

Cool ... Just wanted to know we ain't all that way. Guess I am now a KJV Preferred.

 

[ReChoired]

They do exist "If It Ain't King James It Ain't Bible"

Hate to break it to you, but that is photoshopped. Look at the edges and clarity. Propaganda.

 

[reformed1689]

Hate to break it to you, but that is photoshopped. Look at the edges and clarity. Propaganda.

Even if that is true, that doesn't change the reality I have personally seen one.

 

[reformed1689]

Hate to break it to you, but that is photoshopped. Look at the edges and clarity. Propaganda.

Here is where you can BUY the same sticker If It Ain't King James, It Ain't Bible : King James Only Shop

 

[ReChoired]

Here is where you can BUY the same sticker If It Ain't King James, It Ain't Bible : King James Only Shop

Yes, I see that, but that is not the 'same sticker' as photoshopped onto the truck in the other picture is it?

The one you just cited was created by an individual 'Patrick Allen' - Public Profile

 

[reformed1689]

Yes, I see that, but that is not the 'same sticker' as photoshopped onto the truck in the other picture is it?

The one you just cited was created by an individual 'Patrick Allen' - Public Profile

The point is they EXIST. To say it was propaganda is two things:

1. It was calling me a liar.
2. It was patently false.

 

[John Caldwell]

Yes, I see that, but that is not the 'same sticker' as photoshopped onto the truck in the other picture is it?

The one you just cited was created by an individual 'Patrick Allen' - Public Profile

"Fake evidence" seems to be a growing problem. I have witnessed many forfeit their integrity simply by not checking out the evidence of their claims. This is a huge issue on social media. I can't count the times I have read propaganda forwarded on Facebook by good intentioned Christians.

It goes back to a culture that lives in sound bites.

 

[Truther]

Yet, the argument is not really against the KJB. It is an argument against the idea of the perfectly inspired and preserved word of God. It could have been called the Ridiculous Bible, or any other such thing. The name (King James, or AV 1611, etc) was and is really irrelevant to their attacks.

If we (who believe that the KJB is the perfectly inspired and preserved word of God), said, 'Oooops, we were wrong, the KJB is not the perfectly inspired and preserved word of God in English, the NIV (etc) is the perfectly inspired and preserved word of God in English.' they would still not accept that such an thing exists on earth at present, in tangibility. It only exists somewhere in the distant past, in the dusty rooms of archaeology, or worse still in their own minds only (and are still looking for it), if they ever believed such a thing ever existed in the first place.

Excellent post. The real deal is, they want to be closet translators themselves, from the seminary grad to the newbie.
They care nothing about preserving God’s infallible word.

 

[ReChoired]

The point is they EXIST. To say it was propaganda is two things:

1. It was calling me a liar.
2. It was patently false.

No, I am saying that the image you first linked to is propaganda, and is clearly fabricated (photoshopped).

 

[ReChoired]

Excellent post. The real deal is, they want to be closet translators themselves, from the seminary grad to the newbie.
They care nothing about preserving God’s infallible word.

This is correct. 'They' sit in judgment over the word. 'They' do not let the word sit in judgment over 'them'.

 

[reformed1689]

"Fake evidence" seems to be a growing problem. I have witnessed many forfeit their integrity simply by not checking out the evidence of their claims. This is a huge issue on social media. I can't count the times I have read propaganda forwarded on Facebook by good intentioned Christians.

It goes back to a culture that lives in sound bites.

Except I have SEEN these bumper stickers in real life and actually know someone who has them on their vehicle. That's not fake evidence. That's an eyewitness account.

 

[reformed1689]

Excellent post. The real deal is, they want to be closet translators themselves, from the seminary grad to the newbie.
They care nothing about preserving God’s infallible word.

Such slander with no truth in this post.

 

[DNB]

I did already. Hebrews 9:12 KJB vs NKJV.

They're both identical, reChoired. But, I'm sure that one can find a way, grammatically, to claim a different meaning, one over the other. Some translated verses are unequivocal, while others do leave an ambiguity to it's meaning. But the latter does not mean that it's wrong, it just means that there are more chances of misinterpreting it. I'm assuming that that is your point in Heb 9:12, between the KJV & NKJV? For again, because I understand the meaning to begin with, I see them both as saying the exact same thing. But, if i wanted to be difficult or show an ignorant understanding of the pericope itself, I could claim that there is a difference from one grammatical syntax to the other.
Is this your point?

 

[ReChoired]

... The High Priest did not offer the daily sacrifices, there were other priests for that. ...

That reply is simply ignorance (not knowing) of scripture. It is not as if the High Priest waited around a year before performing any duties. The function of the High Priest also incorporates that of the regular priest.

Exo_29:28 And it shall be Aaron's and his sons' by a statute for ever from the children of Israel: for it is an heave offering: and it shall be an heave offering from the children of Israel of the sacrifice of their peace offerings, even their heave offering unto the LORD.

Heb_5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Heb_8:3 For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.​

 

[reformed1689]

That reply is simply ignorance (not knowing) of scripture. It is not as if the High Priest waited around a year before performing any duties. The function of the High Priest also incorporates that of the regular priest.

Strawman, I was not arguing that. I am saying that the HP function is different than regular priestly functions. Not everything the HP did was a HP office function. That being said, your interpretation STILL doesn't hold water. We do not need daily anything. We had one final sacrifice.

 

[Berserk]

I repeat: it is a sad irony that Christians with the highest view of Scripture blissfully prefer the most corrupt text, the one used by the KJV. None of thse naïve Christians care enough about God's Word to read an academically respected book on Text Criticism such as the one written by my former New Testament professor, Bruce Metzger. Text Critics group the manuscripts by families, that is, by region of origin and date. They then compare errors by date and region with the best and most reliable of the ancient manuscripts and check the results with biblical quotations from the earliest church Fathers, who wrote before the biblical manuscripts in question. They then determine when, where, and why each of the 10 million errrors crept in the text, often inevitable copy errors made and supplemented by tired monks over the centuries.

Yes, modern translations correct deadly errors created by the KJV text. Consider, for example, Mark 16:9-20 which gives itself away as a later forgery by its very different Greek style and was added in the 2nd half of the 2nd century by Aristo of Pella. This name of the forger is even added to one ancient manuscript of Mark. In the forged text Jesus offers as "signs" of the true believer the ability to drink poison and pick up poisonous snakes with impunity. This ghastly sign is responsible for many deaths among Appalachian Christians who wrongly equate the KJV with God's Word and put Jesus' claim to the test. I have learned from long experience to ignore modern books that exclusively quote the KJV and preachers who only preach from the KJV.

 

[ReChoired]

...That being said, your interpretation STILL doesn't hold water. We do not need daily anything. We had one final sacrifice.

Again, your reply is simply ignorance (not knowing) of scripture:

We, Christians, are "Kings and Priest" under the Great High Priest, Jesus Christ.

You can read the full study here - http://sdamaranathachurch.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/The-Daily-Daily-With-No-Pictures.pdf

[06B] The New Testament continuance

Jesus was performing the work of the true priest in the courtyard “daily” service in the true Temple:

Matthew 26:55 KJB - In that same hour said Jesus ... I sat daily with you teaching in the temple, and ye laid no hold on me.

Mark 14:49 KJB - I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

Luke 19:47 KJB - And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,

Luke 22:53 KJB - When I was daily with you in the temple, ye stretched forth no hands against me: but this is your hour, and the power of darkness.

John 18:20 KJB - Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.​

Jesus taught His disciples to ask for “the daily” bread of the True Temple:

Matthew 6:11 KJB - Give us this day our daily bread.

Luke 11:3 KJB - Give us day by day our daily bread.​

Jesus taught us to “continual[ly]” come to Him by faith:

Luke 18:5 KJB - Yet because this widow troubleth me, I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.​

Jesus taught His disciples to “daily” take up their cross, a “daily” sacrifice, and follow Him:

Luke 9:23 KJB - And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.​

When Jesus, their priest and sacrifice, ascended to Heaven, and even became the Great High Priest, to continue “the daily” ministration of the True Tabernacle, the True Sanctuary of Heaven, as we see in the Revelation, among the Candlesticks, Altar of Incense, and the Table of Shewbread, the disciples on earth, followed Him in this work, and entered into that upper room, being “the daily” experience of the True Holy Place in Heaven above, by “daily” faith therein, in Him, and thus anti-typical “the daily” was in full swing:

Luke 24:53 KJB - And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Acts 2:46 KJB - And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

Acts 2:47 KJB - Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Acts 5:42 KJB - And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.

Acts 6:1 KJB - And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration.

Acts 6:4 KJB - But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.

Acts 16:5 KJB - And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Acts 17:11 KJB - These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Acts 17:17 KJB - Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.

Acts 19:9 KJB - But when divers were hardened, and believed not, but spake evil of that way before the multitude, he departed from them, and separated the disciples, disputing daily in the school of one Tyrannus.

Acts 20:31 KJB - Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Acts 26:7 KJB - Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come. For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, I am accused of the Jews.

Romans 8:36 KJB - As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.​

Compare:

Psalms 44:22 KJB - Yea, for thy sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.​

Romans 9:2 KJB - That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.

Romans 12:12 KJB - Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

1 Corinthians 15:31 KJB - I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

2 Corinthians 4:16 KJB - For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

2 Corinthians 11:28 KJB - Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches.

Philippians 4:4 KJB - Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.​

Compare:

Psalms 35:28 KJB - And my tongue shall speak of thy righteousness and of thy praise all the day long.

Psalms 44:8 KJB - In God we boast all the day long, and praise thy name for ever. Selah.

Psalms 71:24 KJB - My tongue also shall talk of thy righteousness all the day long: for they are confounded, for they are brought unto shame, that seek my hurt.

Proverbs 23:17 KJB - Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.​

2 Thessalonians 3:8 KJB - Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:

Hebrews 3:13 KJB - But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Hebrews 3:14 KJB - For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Hebrews 3:15 KJB - While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

Hebrews 7:24 KJB - But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

Hebrews 7:25 KJB - Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

Compare:

Deuteronomy 33:12 KJB - And of Benjamin he said, The beloved of the LORD shall dwell in safety by him; and the LORD shall cover him all the day long, and he shall dwell between his shoulders.​

Hebrews 7:27 KJB - Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself.

Hebrews 10:10 KJB - By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:11 KJB - And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hebrews 10:12 KJB - But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hebrews 13:15 KJB - By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

James 2:15 KJB - If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

2 Peter 2:8 KJB - (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
​

There are true sacrifices Christians need to offer, such as thanksgiving and Praise, broken and contrite heart, etc, for we "have an altar" as states Paul, Hebrews 13:10.