Is there salvation outside the Catholic Church?

[GodsGrace]

Yeah. After 500 posts there should be an automatic shut down mechanism.

This happens to be that post.

• 

 

[brakelite]

My wife cooked a meal the other night that wasn't my cup of tea, so I told her. Did call her a "bad cook"??
NO - and neither did I call you a "Liar". I said that you LIED - which have been doing these last several pages.

False equivalence. What you did not do was say to your wife "your cooking was bad tonight", this, thus calling her a bad cook. You told her her meal was not to your liking...I have never seen you say to anyone, your teaching is not to my liking... You have every time said, you are lying... This you are a liar.
Give us one example of someone who has lied, but is not a liar.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have done nothing over and over but diminish me AND the catholic church with your lies, and your lies are purposeful....

I replied to Canon Law
ECFs
Vatican Officials
Pope John Paul II

You presented NO PROOF except one article that repeated the word DISCIPLINE and it didn't even mean what we're discussing but it meant the TEACHING of the church.

This will be my last reply to you...I've wasted enough time with you.
Before leaving, I will post some more links for those reading along that are interested.

I explained in detail to you why we're speaking of Dogma/Doctrine and not Discipline.
If you want to believe that giving a person IN MORTAL SIN is a discipline....believe what you will.

The following is a link to YouTube...
PLENTY OF LISTENING is available on this important subject, which YOU do not seem to understand.

can remarrieds receive communion - YouTube

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Regarding the ECFs....

The Vatican Officials is covered under the YouTube link.

Pope John Paul II affirmed it is WRONG to give communion to someone in mortal sin.
So why do you even mention him?

Q – (Francis Rocca, The Wall Street Journal) You cited the 1984 "Familiaris Consortio,” but in this document at no. 84 the pope writes that the Church reiterates its practice founded on scripture of not admitting the divorced and remarried to communion unless they take on the commitment of living in complete continence. So, in black and white, the question is: has something changed with respect to thirty-five years ago? Is there a possibility in the papal magisterium not foreseen by John Paul? And if so, in the continuity of the papal magisterium is there a reason why a subsequent pope could not again maintain that it is opportune and necessary to reiterate this practice?

source: Müller Out, Schönborn In. The Pope Has Changed Doctrine Teachers

And, of course, the Pope does believe remarrieds can receive communion....
much to your dismay, HE DID MAKE A CHANGE IN DOGMA/DOCTRINE.

Müller Out, Schönborn In. The Pope Has Changed Doctrine Teachers
Pope Francis 'tells sinner she should be allowed Communion'
You are incapable of having an intelligent conversation.

And since that was your “last” post on the subject – I will remind you one last time that you are presenting multiple arguments and desperately trying to make it all about withholding the Eucharist.

You can post all of the articles and videos about marriage and divorce that you want – but it has NOTHING to do with the discipline of withholding the Eucharist. That is a separate issue. Suffice it to say that you failed in your attempt to blur this crystal-clear issue because of your complete inability to understand it.

Next time - stick to easier subjects like statues and images . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

YOU'RE A WASTE OF EVERYONE'S TIME.

THEY SHOULDN'T EVEN BE SPEAKING TO YOU.

I doubt you see many...
ladies don't like to hang out with your type.

Gee, and I thought you said you were "done" responding to me . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes the Church is the Church as long as it abides in the teaching of the Prophets and Apostles.

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Act 2:42)

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
(Luk 24:27)

If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
(2Jn 1:10)

And not ONE Protestant sect obeys these passages.
Only the Catholic Church does.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, there is salvation outside the Catholic Church - God wants to save us! God is not going to lose

Wrong.

We are saved BY the grace of God – by the blood of Christ.

But, we are saved THROUGH His Church, which is His BODY (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 12).

Without His Church YOU wouldn’t know who Christ is or what He taught (Matt. 28:19-20). . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

False equivalence. What you did not do was say to your wife "your cooking was bad tonight", this, thus calling her a bad cook. You told her her meal was not to your liking...I have never seen you say to anyone, your teaching is not to my liking... You have every time said, you are lying... This you are a liar.
Give us one example of someone who has lied, but is not a liar.

I can give you PLENTY of examples of pointing out things to somebody without CALLING them something.

I told my friend to lose weight because he is obese and is in poor health.
I didn‘t CALL him a “Fatso”.

I told my co-worker that she should stop selling her body to men for money.
I never CALLED her a “whore”.

I told my brother that he drank too much at a wedding.
I didn’t CALL him a “drunk”.

I pointed out to some of you that you LIED about what the Catholic Church teaches.
I never CALLED any of you “Liars”.

Face it – the problem here is NOT with ME – it’s with those of you whose LIES I have exposed.
You guys want to lie with impunity – and the one who points it out is the “bad guy”.

What a gigantic hypocrisy . . .

 

[Giuliano]

And now for something completely different.

 

[aspen]

Wrong.

We are saved BY the grace of God – by the blood of Christ.

But, we are saved THROUGH His Church, which is His BODY (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 12).

Without His Church YOU wouldn’t know who Christ is or what He taught (Matt. 28:19-20). . .

So there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Yet, this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church

 

[Giuliano]

So there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Yet, this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church

Let me look up the official teaching found in the Catechism. I like to go to the Vatican's website when I want to know what they teach.

CCC - PART 1 SECTION 2 CHAPTER 3 ARTICLE 9 PARAGRAPH 3

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame." The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ's Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:
Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.
818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth" are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements." Christ's Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."

 

[BreadOfLife]

So there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Yet, this is not the teaching of the Catholic Church

It absolutely IS.
Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church there is No Salvation) is official Catholic teaching:

From the Catechism:
"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

 

[aspen]

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

See number 2.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is There Really "No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church?"

See number 2.

The invincibly ignorant are still saved through the Church. They are mentioned in paragraph 347 CCC.

 

[aspen]

The invincibly ignorant are still saved through the Church. They are mentioned in paragraph 347 CCC.

I agree with you, but

Protestants follow the same Christ. The CC accepts their baptism and their marriages simply need a blessing

 

[BreadOfLife]

I agree with you, but

Protestants follow the same Christ. The CC accepts their baptism and their marriages simply need a blessing

I'm not condemning Protestants. Many of them fall into the "invincible ignorance" category.
I am merely parroting what the Church teaches and has taught for many centuries - namely that ALL who get saved are saved through Christ's Church.

 

[prism]

And not ONE Protestant sect obeys these passages.
Only the Catholic Church does.

It's ONE Church (not Catholic or Protestant) consisting of truly regenerate believers (those who have had a change of nature through the New Birth).

 

[epostle]

Catholicism does not exclude Protestants from being part of the Church, their separation is a matter of varying degrees. It's certain Protestants who refuse to understand what Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus really means. The meaning was first taught by the Apostles; the phrase summarizes consistent teaching.

 

[BreadOfLife]

It's ONE Church (not Catholic or Protestant) consisting of truly regenerate believers (those who have had a change of nature through the New Birth).

I couldn't have said it better than @epostle . . .

 

[prism]

I couldn't have said it better than @epostle . . .

LOL, Rather outside of Christ there is no salvation. It was mostly those who clung to their Traditions that booted Jesus Christ out of their synagogues...the community Church of that day.

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL, Rather outside of Christ there is no salvation. It was mostly those who clung to their Traditions that booted Jesus Christ out of their synagogues...the community Church of that day.

Spoken like a person who appears to be ignorant of how Scripture describes the Church.

- The Church is the Pillar and Foundation of Truth (1 Tim. 3:15).
- The Church is the FULLNESS of Christ (Eph. 1:22-23).
- Christ compares His very SELF with His Church (Acts 9:4-5).

It’s not the Church OR Christ.
The Church is Christ’s very BODY and He is the Head (Col. 1:18, 1 Cor. 12).