Why Do You Go/or not go to Church?

[Marymog]

My history is checkered. I have gone in the past as a young person. They where good years. Lots of study and discussions and learning.
Of recent not so much, in fact rarely and the reason being I find it all a bit rote and no-one seems seriously interested in expanding or exploring and I'm done with pushing it against peoples will. Basically, I'm not interested in playing Church.
I read at home, sing or whistle on the beach and talk with God at any hour however I do miss meaningful human interaction.

Hi QT,

How do you fulfill Luke 22:19 and John 6:53 while you are whistling on the beach?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

1) To learn

2) To share (fellowship, encouragement, money... this list could be a long one)

3) To serve as a member of the Body

I've been a Christian for 45 years. At the beginning, (1) was the dominant reason for being in a church; these days I learn relatively little, but I have much more to contribute.

Needless to say, it's impossible to do any of these things properly 'on one's own'. OK, you can listen to sermons and talks online, but that's only part of the learning process. You can't really learn prayer, giving, hospitality, etc from books and websites - you need to observe other Christians dong these things.
It's very difficult to help and share with other people without social contact.
And we are supposed to be 'organs' in a body. A row of separate organs on a shelf (heart, lungs, left leg, right arm) doesn't make a body - and on their own they can't function anyway.

Hi Deborah,

How do you fulfill what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19?

 

[Marymog]

A consolidated, designated church building is the only practical way for several hundred people to come together and meet in one place.

That is a very good point Willie....:)

Sooooo to fulfill the question of the OP by @Mayflower: Why Do You Go/or not go to that designated building?

And an answer to my question would fulfill me: Why do several hundred people have to come together for it to be a church? Why not two or three gathering in his name? Wouldn't a living room or a park bench suffice?

Sincerely....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Most of my life has been spent involved in regular attendance at some designated place with others as "people of God". My longest uninterrupted period of such involvement began in about 2002 and ended in October of last year. It has troubled me some, this period of separation, but I also know that God has been in this separation thing for me.

Others here have already given some good reasons for participation in such regular attendance, but this for me is a first of serving God without such a connection. [My two previous times without such a connection I was going it alone, or trying to, without God. That is to say, I backslid.]

Now I attend here in this forum and at one other Christian Internet forum. Offline I meet regularly with two people besides my wife for prayer, fellowship and Bible studies.

I would have been content to stay in attendance where I was until last October if there had been no trouble, but God had other things in mind for me... To me, this is the most important thing: To be where God wants me to be and so here I am on the outside of those places but moving closer to God.

,

Hi Amadeus,

How do you fulfill on internet forums what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19?

 

[Marymog]

We can share the bread and wine at home too. Jesus wasn't in a church when he shared it with his friends.

HE wasn't "in a church" because there were no churches (buildings).

 

[Marymog]

be mindful you don't substitute mans ideas in place of God's. The point of the instructions at the last supper was to remember Jesus and his significance till he returns.
Church is not a building to state the obvious. Church is where two or three are gathered in his name....a home, a prison, a cave, a mountain or even an animal shelter. The location is irrelevant.

Hi QT,

Be mindful that the NT Christians and the Apostolic Fathers (men who walked and talked with the Apostles) and Early Church Fathers disagree with you.

A church has ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus (John 20:21-23), healing rite for the dying that forgives the sins of the person who is dying (James 5:14-15), meets daily for the breaking of the bread ( Matthew 6:11, Acts 2:42-46) and teaches that you must physically eat the flesh of Jesus and drink His blood to have life in you (John 6:53). A building, a cave or a mountain is physical place where they can meet to accomplish this.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Here's a loose thought/question....Does gathering with people in large groups constitute fellowship? Personally I doubt it unless of course their is fellowship.

Gathering with large groups of people for the purpose of fellowship is a wonderful thought but in my experience it has been a rarity.

Fellowship in my understanding happens when people connect. Our fellowship with the Godhead happens when we are connected. Fellowship in a family becomes a reality when those present harmonise at the core and differences that surface are able to be surmounted....that is fellowship.

Hi Nancy,

The NT Christians did not meet in "large groups" because the Christian community was not large at that time....Sooo it was IMPOSSIBLE to meet in large groups. As time progressed the community became larger hence the need for larger areas (such as large churches instead of homes). What the NT Christians did DID constitute fellowship (friendly association, especially with people who share one's interests) only in smaller numbers than we do today. Sooooo whether one is in a large or small group...... it is still fellowship.

They did not gather ONLY for fellowship. They gathered to break bread together (per His instructions in Luke 22:19) and to baptize and confess their sins, gather money/goods for the needy....Just like Scripture and early Christians writings says they did.

Mary

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

How do you fulfill on internet forums what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19?

I think I answered those questions for you in one of our previous discussions on this forum, but... you may have forgotten and that is true of me as well.

I have not partaken of physical bread or crackers or wafers made from grain, nor have I drunk of the juice of grapes in fermented or unfermented form in many years where I have physically gathered together with other people even when we were "in His name". I do eat of His flesh daily and drink of His blood daily however, but I partake of the real flesh and the real blood rather than the types of shadows that most people in church groups consider important or necessary. I don't answer for them, but only for myself.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” John 6:54-55

His flesh is the Word of God, which is brought to Life within a man by the Spirit of God, which is the blood of Jesus.

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” Lev 17:11

But the Life of spiritual man is the blood of Jesus, which is the Holy Spirit which quickens [brings to Life].

 

[Stan B]

Hi Mayflower,

Where else would a Christian go to fulfill Luke 22:19?

Mary

Well, Jesus did this in the upper room of a house as part of the evening meal. And early Christians did the same thing before there was such a thing as a church building. They observed the commemorance with the bread and the wine with their evening dinner.

 

[Marymog]

I think I answered those questions for you in one of our previous discussions on this forum, but... you may have forgotten and that is true of me as well.

I have not partaken of physical bread or crackers or wafers made from grain, nor have I drunk of the juice of grapes in fermented or unfermented form in many years where I have physically gathered together with other people even when we were "in His name". I do eat of His flesh daily and drink of His blood daily however, but I partake of the real flesh and the real blood rather than the types of shadows that most people in church groups consider important or necessary. I don't answer for them, but only for myself.

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

“Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.” John 6:54-55

His flesh is the Word of God, which is brought to Life within a man by the Spirit of God, which is the blood of Jesus.

“For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.” Lev 17:11

But the Life of spiritual man is the blood of Jesus, which is the Holy Spirit which quickens [brings to Life].

A lot of words but no real discernible answer....

You kind of did answer in a previous post. Your answer was something to the effect that you eat his body and drink his blood by reading the bible and you participate in communion as often as you gather with others...

Soooooo combining that previous (non)answer with this (non)answer it appears to me you do not fulfill what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19 or practice it regularly like the NT Christians did.

Thank you for your time....Mary

Thank you for your time....

PS....It is not "crackers or wafers" like you PRETEND it to be. It is His body....just like He said (Luke 22:19).

I believe Him...not sure why you don't.

 

[amadeus]

A lot of words but no real discernible answer....

You kind of did answer in a previous post. Your answer was something to the effect that you eat his body and drink his blood by reading the bible and you participate in communion as often as you gather with others...

Soooooo combining that previous (non)answer with this (non)answer it appears to me you do not fulfill what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19 or practice it regularly like the NT Christians did.

Thank you for your time....Mary

Thank you for your time....

PS....It is not "crackers or wafers" like you PRETEND it to be. It is His body....just like He said (Luke 22:19).

I believe Him...not sure why you don't.

I said I was answering for myself rather than for others. Each one of us must follow God ourselves. If you want to judge me for not seeing my way as wrong and your way as right, there is nothing I can do about that. Only God gives the increase to anyone and His judgment, ultimately. is the one that makes a difference.

 

[Marymog]

Well, Jesus did this in the upper room of a house as part of the evening meal. And early Christians did the same thing before there was such a thing as a church building. They observed the commemorance with the bread and the wine with their evening dinner.

Hi Stan B,

Soooooo what you are saying is we can go to a house (or stay in our own home) and fulfill Luke 22:19?

 

[Marymog]

I said I was answering for myself rather than for others. Each one of us must follow God ourselves. If you want to judge me for not seeing my way as wrong and your way as right, there is nothing I can do about that. Only God gives the increase to anyone and His judgment, ultimately. is the one that makes a difference.

Hmmmmm......so we all get to read the bible and find the answers to it that fit what WE believe it to mean???

Fascinating.....I wonder if that goes against the sound doctrine scripture teaches and fulfills Jesus prayer that we all be one?

Hint....your cafeteria Christianity lifestyle is opposite of what scripture teaches.

I am not judging you.....Just showing you that you have twisted scripture to fit YOUR belief and not what has been taught for 2,000 years.

 

[Deborah_]

Hi Deborah,

How do you fulfill what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19?

Taking Communion is another thing that I should have put on my 'sharing' list. One can't observe the sacraments on one's own. But there are so many things that could have been on the list...

 

[amadeus]

Hmmmmm......so we all get to read the bible and find the answers to it that fit what WE believe it to mean???

Fascinating.....I wonder if that goes against the sound doctrine scripture teaches and fulfills Jesus prayer that we all be one?

Hint....your cafeteria Christianity lifestyle is opposite of what scripture teaches.

I am not judging you.....Just showing you that you have twisted scripture to fit YOUR belief and not what has been taught for 2,000 years.

We all get to eat His flesh and have it quickened within us by the Holy Spirit, if we will allow it [not quenching the Holy Spirit]. Some people fail to eat thus never providing the dead meat to be quickened. Some fail to drink thus never providing the means for what they have eaten to be brought to Life within. Without the Living Word within us there is no "new man" so when we die the death of our flesh, nothing would remain.

I never tell a person he should not partake of communion as both the Catholic and many/most Protestant church practice and teach it...but when you ask me, should I lie to sooth your feelings. Being honest you would say, no, but you really would like see me follow you and the traditional teachings of most believers. I cannot do that.

You say I have twisted, but for me it is you who have twisted by including me and everyone in your conclusions as if were the correct end of every story of every person. I know you will speak of the early Fathers and the original ones designated as Apostles, but no matter where they were, each of us needs to be growing while time remains to us.

If I were now right where the Apostle Paul was at the time of his natural demise, I would still have to be growing while I still had time to do so. Even Jesus was growing while here in His flesh. To stop growing is to stagnate and die. The limit to our growth, is not in God in which there is not limit, but in us.

Give God the glory!

 

[Stan B]

Taking Communion is another thing that I should have put on my 'sharing' list. One can't observe the sacraments on one's own. But there are so many things that could have been on the list...

>>One can't observe the sacraments on one's own????
Is that something that can be found in the Bible, or only in the Gospel According to Deborah??

 

[Stan B]

Hi Stan B,

Soooooo what you are saying is we can go to a house (or stay in our own home) and fulfill Luke 22:19?

Yes Mary. Whether I commemorate my Saviour's death and resurrection at church or at home, that's totally between me and Him. He is the one that doesn't look upon the outward appearance, but sees what is in the heart.

I have studied the writings of the Early Church Fathers, and how things happened in the church. In the very earliest church, communion was served within the group by laity, and for those who were infirm and could not attend, family took the bread and wine home for that person.

Over the years, the evil clergy seized upon communion as a way to exalt themselves and bring the congregation into submission. At the outset, they proclaimed that only they could serve communion, and over time they morphed it into a magical elixir that only the clergy could manufacture. It got so totally ridiculous, that at the Roman Catholic Council of Trent 1545, a major item for discussion, was that the wine was so sacred and magical, that what should they do with a man who accidentally spilled a drop of wine on his beard. Should they merely cut off his beard and burn it, or should they burn the entire man at the stake!! YUK! So the Roman Catholic Church stopped serving wine at their magical communion nonsense, and to this day, they no longer serve communion, but just wafers. In all fairness, I think they stopped serving wine merely because they were cheap!! And that left more booze for the priests!

 

[quietthinker]

Hi QT,

How do you fulfill Luke 22:19 and John 6:53 while you are whistling on the beach?

Curious Mary

'man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God'

 

[quietthinker]

Hi Deborah,

How do you fulfill what Jesus told us we MUST DO in John 6:53 and Luke 22:19?

It is a directive to remember that Jesus is the bread of life. It was never a MUST DO.

 

[quietthinker]

Hi QT,

Be mindful that the NT Christians and the Apostolic Fathers (men who walked and talked with the Apostles) and Early Church Fathers disagree with you.

A church has ministers who can forgive sins in the name of Jesus (John 20:21-23), healing rite for the dying that forgives the sins of the person who is dying (James 5:14-15), meets daily for the breaking of the bread ( Matthew 6:11, Acts 2:42-46) and teaches that you must physically eat the flesh of Jesus and drink His blood to have life in you (John 6:53). A building, a cave or a mountain is physical place where they can meet to accomplish this.

Mary

You're understanding of the scriptures you have quoted is in error. You're cobbling amounts to gobbledy gook