When is a christian NOT a Christian?

[Helen]

Boils down to this:

You shall know them by their fruits.

....Or, as in Moses face.....( and obviously as Jesus) they shall be known by the refection of the Father radiating from them.

As you and others have said...the fruit of the Kingdom.... :)

 

[CNKW3]

IF you had bothered to read this thread you would have learned WHY this question was asked in such a way..( for someone else) But, you obviously didn't bother ...


The question was if you had bothered to read deeper and further..."who or what, defines "christian" , and who has the right to tell someone else that they are not a Christian ( as in , having a living relationship with the lord. )

Thank you for your most unhelpful arrogant post...I'm sure it bless everyone here.

You don’t like me because I showed, through the Bible, how your “conversion experience” is no where to be found and is “unbiblical”. It hurt your feelings.
The truth is....I am the best friend you have on this board because I was willing to tell you the truth.
What was I supposed to do? Should I have done something different?
You reject the message but...
Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

 

[Helen]

You don’t like me because I showed, through the Bible, how your “conversion experience” is no where to be found and is “unbiblical”. It hurt your feelings.
The truth is....I am the best friend you have on this board because I was willing to tell you the truth.
What was I supposed to do? Should I have done something different?
You reject the message but...
Galatians 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?

You are still not posting "to" this topic.

No, you did not "hurt my feelings"....I am solid in what I believe and in Whom I believe.

In that thread of yours you just kept on telling me and other posters, that our 'salvation experience' was not valid, and those of us , like @Hidden In Him and others , who were saved ALONE with God...could not way be saved. ( not that he was in your thread)

So ...Hummmm on second thoughts. @Miss Hepburn and EVERYONE in this thread...we have right here a perfect example of a person who feels they have every right to tell someone else that they are in fact NOT a child of God. Thank you for the example.

Maybe we should all leave and let you have this "Christian" site to yourself...because by YOUR own definition , you are the only truly saved "christian" here!! What a clever boy. You win.

@Enoch111 @Bobby Jo @Triumph1300 @lforrest @Episkopos and all the rest who posted here..can't remember you all. :)

 

[CNKW3]

You are still not posting "to" this topic.

No, you did not "hurt my feelings"....I am solid in what I believe and in Whom I believe.

In that thread of yours you just kept on telling me and other posters, that our 'salvation experience' was not valid, and those of us , like @Hidden In Him and others , who were saved ALONE with God...could not way be saved. ( not that he was in your thread)

So ...Hummmm on second thoughts. @Miss Hepburn and EVERYONE in this thread...we have right here a perfect example of a person who fells they have every right to tell someone else that they are in fact NOT a child of God. Thank you for the example.

Maybe we should all leave and let you have this "Christian" site to yourself...because by YOUR own definition , you are the only truly saved "christian" here!! What a clever boy. You win.

@Enoch111 @Bobby Jo @Triumph1300 @lforrest @Episkopos and all the rest who posted here..can't remember you all. :)

I’m glad I could help provide you an example.

If I didn’t hurt your feelings, then why the hostility?
What should I have done? If you think I am being lead astray then I would hope you would be kind enough to show that to me. Not with opinion but through the word of truth. Is that not what I did?

“Saved Christian”? If you are saved then you are a Christian, if you are a Christian then you are saved. You can be an unfaithful child of God but I do not believe someone can be an “unsaved Christian”.
And , no. I am not the only one on here. I have noticed one other person who preaches truth.

 

[Enoch111]

So how would you determine what is wilful blindness as opposed to real blindness !?
How would you know ?

You would know there is wilful blindness when you would present clear Scripture and the response would be to ignore what was presented, and continue posting the erroneous belief. Let's say you presented someone with clear Scripture that Christ died for the sins of the whole world (all humanity). The proper response would be to acknowledge the truth and turn away from the error. However, wilful blindness would be to continue to insist that Christ died only for the so-called "elect".

So your talking about denial - which can be down to lack of insight or pride !?

No, I am not talking about denial. The reasonable expectation of every Christian is that other Christians will take Scripture very seriously and respond accordingly.

Who would be judge of that , after all pride, denial are human traits- not one single person here could claim to be immune.

No one can know the inner motives of others. But we can clearly see their wilful blindness when they refuse and reject the truth.

Let's say a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door and agrees to discuss the deity of Christ with you. You show her the Scriptures which clearly say that Jesus is God. Then you ask her "Do you now believe that Jesus is God?" And she turns around and says "No, I do not believe that Jesus is God". You do not need to see her motives. She saw the Word of God and rejected it. End of story.

 

[Enoch111]

Boils down to this:
You shall know them by their fruits.

True enough, although this was applied by Christ to false teachers. Most of us do not follow the lives of others closely, so we cannot really know their fruits. Furthermore, if someone never discloses their offerings to God, and yet gives very generously (a la the widow's mite) you would have no clue about their fruits, so how could you judge them?

The simple criteria to ask someone whether they are Christians or not are two simple questions:

1. Do you know without the shadow of a doubt that you've been born again?

2. Do you believe with all your heart that Jesus is God?

Those questions separate the sheep from the goats.

 

[Hidden In Him]

ok, ty, i appreciate it, prolly best that i just leave or take a break or something, and let "you dont need to pick up your cross" and "why are you asking me to state one of my beliefs on a Christian forum, buddy" to rule the day, i guess. So, ty, and yall have a good one. Maybe mjr will come back if he gets off life-support huh?

Well I was hoping you wouldn't take it as a suggestion to leave! Just to step back and get a little perspective is all. Get back to being positive, and just weather all the garbage posts like we all have to. I agree it isn't fun, but it's something we just have to endure to be active members, at any Christian forum really.

 

[Philip James]

Why not just give a straight answer to the question?

Your question was answered. Why do you kick at the goad?

Peace be with you!

 

[Hidden In Him]

George W. claimed to be a Christian yet continually sent young Americans to their deaths to fight foreign wars. They continually bombed other countries, blowing the limbs off of young children. He also is in Skull and Bones, a known demonic secret society. So I don't believe that he is a Christian either. He fooled our pastor though. Our pastor asked the church to pray for the Bush family after George H.W. died because "George W. says he is a Christian." I was disappointed that our pastor said that. We should pray for the victims of George W - the young children who had limbs blown off in other countries.

LoL. I doubt one could be a member of Bohemian Grove and a Christian at the same time, and the Bushes are the equivalent of American Royalty, and unquestioned members of that Satanist click. Of course, in occultism everything gets twisted around to where all things "Christian" get entirely redefined. But as far as being real Christians in Spirit and Truth, not on your life, LoL.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I'm glad that nowhere in scripture are we called upon to identify who are Christian and who isn't. Oh. Hold on. We are. In several places. If we aren't to marry any outside the faith (unequally yoked) then we need to know. If we are supposed to love the brethren especially, then we need to know. Of we are supposed to be able to discern people's lives in such a manner as to know whether or not they are true or false, I guess God has given us the wisdom to do so. I would imagine though that our priority would be to make sure we are of the household of faith. Unless we are the genuine article, what hope have we of identifying the false?
I think the manner by which Jesus is going to identify His children should suffice us as well. And again, it has to do with fruit. The parable of the sheep and goats is the clearest of any of the parables. Those on His left, the goats, did nothing for others, and this did nothing for Him. The ones on the right, the sheep, did.
So how do we discern online who is true and who false? We can't. We haven't a clue. Because friends there will be many who will never believe the same as you or I regarding theology, eschatology, soteriology, or even trigonometry. But they will be with Christ in glory because they fed the hungry, visited the sick, clothed the naked, gave shelter to the homeless, and visited those in prison. Oh, and because Christ gave His life a ransom for them too.

Hey Brakelite, I liked your post, but see if you can respond to Post #73 for me. I was hoping to continue that conversation with @EllenDiann, but she seems to have shown up and then disappeared. Seems a discussion worth ironing out to me, so if you can, give it a read and tell me what you think.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Boils down to this:

You shall know them by their fruits.

Hey Triumph! Always good to see you around. Listen, let me make the same request of you that I just did of Brakelite. I wanted to have this conversation with @EllenDiann, but she seems to have shown up and then disappeared. But see if you can respond to Post #73 for me. Seems a discussion worth having, so give it a read and tell me what you think.

 

[Hidden In Him]

In that thread of yours you just kept on telling me and other posters, that our 'salvation experience' was not valid, and those of us , like @Hidden In Him and others , who were saved ALONE with God...could not way be saved. ( not that he was in your thread)

I seem to recall something, but the Lord blessed me with the leading to ignore it, LoL.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm not afraid to answer questions, just not always sure I can keep it short. So ask aways as long as it pertains to this topic.

The question WOULD pertain to this topic.
When is a Christian a Christian?

OK. Here's is the question your post brought up....:

You spoke of a person that WILL BECOME a Christian but is not presently.
You spoke of a man that is 36 and he will become Christian at the age of 37...so he's Christian in the eyes of God , but WE do not perceive him as Christian yet.

Here is the question you created:
If that man had died at the age of 36,,,,
where would he have been destined to spend eternity?

Now remember, God knows the future....
But He can only act in the moment....just like us.

 

[Enoch111]

So I think the position of judging by fruit can be misleading.

I confirmed this recently in another post. But we have three issues being all treated as one issue:

1. Only God knows who is a true Christian regardless of professions.

2. Only the individual knows if he or she has a relationship with Christ.

3. Only those within a local church and in contact with other members would know what their fruits are.

 

[FHII]

The question WOULD pertain to this topic.
When is a Christian a Christian?

OK. Here's is the question your post brought up....:

You spoke of a person that WILL BECOME a Christian but is not presently.
You spoke of a man that is 36 and he will become Christian at the age of 37...so he's Christian in the eyes of God , but WE do not perceive him as Christian yet.

Here is the question you created:
If that man had died at the age of 36,,,,
where would he have been destined to spend eternity?

Now remember, God knows the future....
But He can only act in the moment....just like us.

I created a hypothetical situation to make a point.

A Christian is a Christian when God says he is a Christian. And God did a funny thing... He said he picked them before the foundations of the world.

So a Christian is such when God says he or she was. But it may not manifest to us right away.

The 36 year old man was àlways a christiàn... He just hadn't manifest himself.

 

[GodsGrace]

I created a hypothetical situation to make a point.

A Christian is a Christian when God says he is a Christian. And God did a funny thing... He said he picked them before the foundations of the world.

So a Christian is such when God says he or she was. But it may not manifest to us right away.

The 36 year old man was àlways a christiàn... He just hadn't manifest himself.

Are we talking calvinist theology?
God knows who will be saved...but He doesn't CAUSE them to become saved.
If someone dies an unbeliever, he will not be saved.
Every instance in the N.T. that speaks about believing and having faith, always states it in the present tense.
If you believe in the reformed theology, then, yes, this is not the place.

 

[FHII]

Are we talking calvinist theology?
God knows who will be saved...but He doesn't CAUSE them to become saved.
If someone dies an unbeliever, he will not be saved.
Every instance in the N.T. that speaks about believing and having faith, always states it in the present tense.
If you believe in the reformed theology, then, yes, this is not the place.

I actually read Calvin long AFTER forming my beliefs. I read Calvin afterwards because folks called me a Calvinist.

After reading what John Calvin actually wrote, I have concluded that John Calvin wasn't a Calvinist.

Neither am I.

But the f you believe that God never causes someone to be a believer... Ok. Stick with that... I really don't care. But Paul spent three days blind and trying to figure things out cause Jesus cold cocked him.

Acts 9 tells a tale... It wasn't in the present tense.

 

[farouk]

I actually read Calvin long AFTER forming my beliefs. I read Calvin afterwards because folks called me a Calvinist.

People use the word as a term of abuse; but often they don't even know what they are talking about.

 

[FHII]

People use the word as a term of abuse; but often they don't even know what they are talking about.

Really? Explain to me if I have done such?

 

[bbyrd009]

That's how I see it too.

so pearl my apologies OK, but imo this believing that we might not have God's forgiveness is where the whole hair ball starts rolling downhill. God forgives us the same way you would forgive a three or four-year-old for some slight, surely?