When is a christian NOT a Christian?

[Butterfly]

Thank you. And I agree...
But I am not going to let you get away quite that easily. :)

If you were Admin of some forum somewhere, when you saw posts of all your born-again believing membership...what would 'give you pause' in something someone wrote, to question is they were indeed "a true Christian"?

Skip it if you don't wish to answer... no sweat :)

If a member denied the cross, it's purpose ect - I think that would be a red flag for me as it is central.
I think it would have to be something that binds us all together, regardless of the theology that we often see differently.
I was thinking about the insults that people often throw around between each other - and was reminded of the man healed of blindness, at first he could not see clearly - he couldn't see as others did. Isn't that a picture of all believers - we 'see ' because Jesus enables us to see, but it doesn't always happen at once. So when one person ' doesn't get something , and it can work visa versa ' it isn't always down to them not having a faith, but simply down to the reality that their eyes have not yet been open to what someone else sees.
Rita

 

[Enoch111]

...their eyes have not yet been open to what someone else sees.

What we generally see on Christian forums is WILFUL BLINDNESS.

 

[Enoch111]

"Jesus is the name of the Father; Jesus is the name of the Son; Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost; and all these three are one"...They are definitely NOT Trinitarian.

I didn't realize that United Pentecostal was the same as Oneness Pentecostal. They have worded their doctrine deceptively, as I quoted it from their website.

 

[Butterfly]

What we generally see on Christian forums is WILFUL BLINDNESS.

So how would you determine what is wilful blindness as opposed to real blindness !?
How would you know ?
So your talking about denial - which can be down to lack of insight or pride !?
Who would be judge of that , after all pride, denial are human traits- not one single person here could claim to be immune.
Rita

 

[FHII]

You know me....Ms. Detail Oriented.

I'm sure we all understand what you're talking about...
Which brings up ANOTHER questions...
But I'll be nice and won't ask it !
(You owe me).

I'm not afraid to answer questions, just not always sure I can keep it short. So ask aways as long as it pertains to this topic.

 

[bbyrd009]

Mark, what is happening to you? You are getting old and cynical these days

You are turning into a heckler whenever you can. The thing is, you may ( or may not) be correct in some things you say...but you no longer post in a redemptive way...you don't post as if you care for anyone ...just the opposite, you seem to despise us all.

We know Jesus likened himself to many things ...one was that He showed us His shepherds heart..seeking and saving the stupid sheep. I don't see that in you.

Your posts these days are devoid of any 'caring'. You slap at Stranger about how he posts...but you are just as aggressive now, maybe more so.
In fact I'd go as far to say that most of your posts are rude and aggressive now. Politeness costs nothing.

I'd like to see the old Mark back again.

then lets talk about cats or something, yeh? Or i mean i can leave, and you can read comfortable platitudes from ppl who cant answer simple questions, Helen. And you can pretend that youre going up to heaven after you have died for a little longer, to begin your After Life? You professed the Magic Incantation just like me, right? Right before Luby's?

 

[bbyrd009]

Who thought I was a man?

idc about your sex here, ms pearl, there are only male-female here in the sense that does not matter, ok? God has already forgiven, and so will not be doing any more forgiving today, or any other today, than He already has, ok, and i dont think it is rude to point that out to someone who is trying to teach otherwise on a Christian forum?

I mean, you were full of confidence when you spoke the lie, "maybe God will forgive you" or " you need to ask God for forgiveness" or whatever it was, but i'm not supposed to be offended by that, right? Bc you are more pc than me? I mean pls bro, do you have any cats or not?

Bible Search: ask God for forgiveness
whoops, huh? I mean shouldnt that be in There like one time at least, bro? You wanna give an accounting now, or later? Bc you do not have the first clue wadr, ok? I mean keep teaching it if you like bro, but you are going to be revealed as a hypocrite, ok?

who told you that you were naked?

so this is all it takes to offend you? then my sincere apologies ok, woman? Maybe God might not forgive me anyway, huh? Maybe you are right? Should we all be asking God for forgiveness, Pearl, or what did you mean exactly? Bc honestly, i didnt mean to offend you, ok, but see what i am hearing is "lets all just stay in this boat thats on fire and taking us all to hell" ok sweetie? I accept that you are a better person than me prolly, ok, i hope you dont think i meant to imply otherwise. Of course we all need God's forgiveness, yes

 

[Hidden In Him]

then lets talk about cats or something, yeh? Or i mean i can leave, and you can read comfortable platitudes from ppl who cant answer simple questions, Helen. And you can pretend that youre going up to heaven after you have died for a little longer, to begin your After Life? You professed the Magic Incantation just like me, right? Right before Luby's?

Actually, Byrd, I wasn't going to say anything, but since Helen brought it up, you have kinda gone off the rails lately. I'm no prude, but Post #102 (or whatever it was) was too obscene even for me:

and fwiw i apologize, ok, i know its hard to discover your head is up inside your anus and everything you learned is crap fed to you by Paul's wolves. Prolly what i would do is put me on ignore and keep teaching it though i guess. Nicene Creed included, x3, the perverts. Who of course will not step up and defend any charges, and think they can openly mock God and get away with it

I can understand when people get to you, but now you seem stuck. What's going on with you specifically is none of anyone's business, so I won't ask, but when I'm consistently that upset it usually has something to do with my physiology, i.e. maybe drinking too much caffeine, not getting enough sleep, etc. I'll pray that whatever's going on with you works itself out so that you can get back to being your old self again. But I agree with Helen that you do seem more negative than you used to be, and that's not good for anyone, including you.

 

[bbyrd009]

So you think you know me and my Master do you?

If you knew my Master, you would know mercy, HOPE and love...

And I HOPE, that one day you will receive these things...

When the disciples James and John saw this they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to consume them?"

Jesus turned and rebuked them,


You too! Are welcome to come to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

look PJ i understand you have learned some really neat sounding phrases that you have been taught apply to you as soon as you make a little profession, ok, but if you then being evil is where you were when you heard that at least, right? Can you not entertain as a possibility that satan appears as an angel of light to fill your head full of select Scripture that you could not understand then, and possibly are misinterpreting now? See bc the deflecting and the pious statements and your lofty Hope for me, none of these are going to be admitted as evidence when youre required to give testimony bro.

So yes, you are showing me who your master is, when you say you will be given the words but this is all i get ok, no offense meant. Now either address the Q or dont, bc we already both know the answer anyway right? I dont know anything you dont, surely? Do you even know what the question was anymore? See i cant help but feel this is all a bunch of flopping around trying to get as much distance from teh Q you cant stand to even contemplate now as you can, hopefully that shouldnt be too hard to understand? After the repeated avoidance and pious deflections?

Why not just give a straight answer to the question? One time?

 

[Miss Hepburn]

But, apparently, the creator of this thread doesn’t want to study what those passages actually say.

Whoa... Why the dig? It just turned my stomach. Ick....

You know, I went back to read some posts from others...double ick....
I think I will have to take another break from here.
Loving, gentle discussions, exchanging thoughts and encouraging ideas
is just not happening.
Love you guys and you know who you are. xo :)
I do not want to start my mornings with this sick feeling in my stomach...
I have TV political news for that!!! Ha!

So, CNKW---no need to respond.

 

[bbyrd009]

This is a deep statement...no kidding bro. One that is taken too lightly today.....pun intended

Abraham was glad to 'see' or believe in Yahshua's Day as one of the promises of YHWH. The Light (Day) finally arrived with the birth of the perfect human bearer of this light of YHWH, the Father. He was born to shine his Father's light into the darkness of this fallen world. The true darkness as always, split and hid. The same is true of people today. They think they believe in the light although their hearts are hiding in the darkness, faking they are believers of the light. They are mental believers - lukewarm. They never made the deep personal commitment to the Light. They would rather hide and be part of a group that thinks as they do, covered together in the same commune spiritual security blanket.

Bless you,

APAK

hey, me too, i understand the desire for warmth and security, and i am not here to vilify ppl who are still under servants, and who think they have beliefs. But the false teachers, yikes! "This is that and that is this" and they dont have a clue and sure dont have to justify any of their teachings, right, i mean we got teachers in here saying "you dont have to pick up your cross" now and getting likes? Wth?

 

[bbyrd009]

Actually, Byrd, I wasn't going to say anything, but since Helen brought it up, you have kinda gone off the rails lately. I'm no prude, but Post #102 (or whatever it was) was too obscene even for me:


I can understand when people get to you, but now you seem stuck. What's going on with you specifically is none of anyone's business, so I won't ask, but when I'm consistently that upset it usually has something to do with my physiology, i.e. maybe drinking too much caffeine, not getting enough sleep, etc. I'll pray that whatever's going on with you works itself out so that you can get back to being your old self again. But I agree with Helen that you do seem more negative than you used to be, and that's not good for anyone, including you.

ok, ty, i appreciate it, prolly best that i just leave or take a break or something, and let "you dont need to pick up your cross" and "why are you asking me to state one of my beliefs on a Christian forum, buddy" to rule the day, i guess. So, ty, and yall have a good one. Maybe mjr will come back if he gets off life-support huh?

 

[Soverign Grace]

No one can judge the servant of another. So if a person says they are a Christian then we should accept them as such until they prove otherwise.

The word "Christian" is casting a very wide net. There can be novice Christians...carnal Christians, spiritual Christians, religious Christians, Sectarian Christians, heretic Christians, righteous Christians...etc...

I think there are really a lot of catagories we could name of Christians.

But the bible boils all these down into 3 types...(and all are Christian)

The holy: saints who walk in the grace of God and/or are led by the Spirit.
The righteous: These are humble and fear the Lord and act honestly and have love for others.
The filthy: These are the pretenders...the hypocrites, the religious believers who say much but are really just doing their own thing. Claiming to be holy these always soil their garments with the world.

God will judge who is really whom. In the meantime we try helping each other in growth and becoming one by the Spirit. We are members one of another. The ones who exclude themselves from this kind of fellowship have done so of their own free will.

Good overview Episkopos.

 

[Soverign Grace]

Aside from faith in Christ, I honestly don't think many expectations can be insisted upon where beliefs are concerned; for the early church, yes, but not for us today. Church doctrine at this point in history is now - and I mean across the board - SO screwed up that you can have people coming to genuine faith in Jesus Christ from ALL SORTS of different backgrounds, and even from total ignorance. I wasn't raised a Christian, and when I became one I had absolutely no clue. I thought the Book of Job was pronounced "job" (as in "get a job"). I came to Christ totally on my own without the help of a church or anyone leading me to Christ, and over time it was my study of scripture that began revealing to me truth from falsehood.

Was I saved back then? Just as much as I am today, if not more so. Now I do think faith in Christ as the Son of God is essential, but if someone were to adopt Christianity in their heart without having come to that realization yet, who would be able to say that person was not yet a Christian if they had turned to the God of scripture with all their heart, as I did?

Your experience mirrors min HIH - I searched for God on my own. I didn't even know that I had been spiritually reborn. I knew something had happened but I was so clueless I didn't know it was spiritual re-birth. It was only when I found the booklet "Steps to Christ" that I realized that I had been spiritually reborn.

I had a target on my back for all the name it and claim it hucksters.

Helen's question is something of a tricky one because we see a lot of people calling themselves "Christian" who by their fruits, appear not to be. So are we to "know them by their fruits" or "do not judge or you will be judged"?

We see people like Madonna who calls herself a Christian but by watching her lifestyle and fruits we can gauge that she's likely not.

George W. claimed to be a Christian yet continually sent young Americans to their deaths to fight foreign wars. They continually bombed other countries, blowing the limbs off of young children. He also is in Skull and Bones, a known demonic secret society. So I don't believe that he is a Christian either. He fooled our pastor though. Our pastor asked the church to pray for the Bush family after George H.W. died because "George W. says he is a Christian." I was disappointed that our pastor said that. We should pray for the victims of George W - the young children who had limbs blown off in other countries.

We have to always keep in mind that Satan appears as an angel of light and is a prolific liar. So I'm wary of anyone claiming to be a Christian - I look for their fruits.

 

[CNKW3]

IF you had bothered to read this thread you would have learned WHY this question was asked in such a way..( for someone else) But, you obviously didn't bother ...


The question was if you had bothered to read deeper and further..."who or what, defines "christian" , and who has the right to tell someone else that they are not a Christian ( as in , having a living relationship with the lord. )

Thank you for your most unhelpful arrogant post...I'm sure it bless everyone here.

Of course I read it. The obvious answer is.....THE BIBLE gets to define who is or is not a Christian. You ask a bible question but then say...”I don’t want a bible answer I want opinion.”
That’s the problem! You are asking a biblical question but want an unbiblical answer.
You rejected something above by saying..”it’s unbiblical”. And I just want to know how you define that?

I started a thread arguing that no one can be “saved” by themselves, based on the fact that it is not taught or practiced in the NT. “It’s unbiblical”. And you argued against me.
See the problem? How do you pick and choose what’s biblical and what isn’t? What’s your standard? You are not being consistent.

 

[JohnPaul]

This is why I don’t follow denominations I follow my heart, which led me here.

 

[Triumph1300]

This keeps coming to my mind every time I check the posts on this thread:

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Of course most of us know that this refers to being born again, as mentioned by Jesus earlier to Nicodemus.
One must be born again in order to see the Kingdom of Heaven.

Now....I know lots of different people would give different twists to these scripture.
(Many, for instance, would add good works, water baptism. speaking in tongues, etc to this as a condition to salvation....I believe works come as a result of being born again, not the other way around.)


But I like to keep it simple.
Repent and believe Jesus died for you on the cross and rose again.
A child can understand it......He said come like a child! :)

So....the question was "Who is a Christian?".
My answer to that would be : The one who is born again.

 

[brakelite]

I'm glad that nowhere in scripture are we called upon to identify who are Christian and who isn't. Oh. Hold on. We are. In several places. If we aren't to marry any outside the faith (unequally yoked) then we need to know. If we are supposed to love the brethren especially, then we need to know. Of we are supposed to be able to discern people's lives in such a manner as to know whether or not they are true or false, I guess God has given us the wisdom to do so. I would imagine though that our priority would be to make sure we are of the household of faith. Unless we are the genuine article, what hope have we of identifying the false?
I think the manner by which Jesus is going to identify His children should suffice us as well. And again, it has to do with fruit. The parable of the sheep and goats is the clearest of any of the parables. Those on His left, the goats, did nothing for others, and this did nothing for Him. The ones on the right, the sheep, did.
So how do we discern online who is true and who false? We can't. We haven't a clue. Because friends there will be many who will never believe the same as you or I regarding theology, eschatology, soteriology, or even trigonometry. But they will be with Christ in glory because they fed the hungry, visited the sick, clothed the naked, gave shelter to the homeless, and visited those in prison. Oh, and because Christ gave His life a ransom for them too.
Even people here who are in abject error on doctrine, but who in lovel care for others ahead of themselves, who be held in higher honour than the one with the PhD who doesn't give a damn. That one, the PhD guy... The one thought of in the kingdom as least, may not even be there.

 

[Triumph1300]

I'm glad that nowhere in scripture are we called upon to identify who are Christian and who isn't. Oh. Hold on. We are. In several places. If we aren't to marry any outside the faith (unequally yoked) then we need to know. If we are supposed to love the brethren especially, then we need to know.

Boils down to this:

You shall know them by their fruits.

 

[Helen]

I'm glad that nowhere in scripture are we called upon to identify who are Christian and who isn't. Oh. Hold on. We are. In several places. If we aren't to marry any outside the faith (unequally yoked) then we need to know. If we are supposed to love the brethren especially, then we need to know. Of we are supposed to be able to discern people's lives in such a manner as to know whether or not they are true or false, I guess God has given us the wisdom to do so. I would imagine though that our priority would be to make sure we are of the household of faith. Unless we are the genuine article, what hope have we of identifying the false?
I think the manner by which Jesus is going to identify His children should suffice us as well. And again, it has to do with fruit. The parable of the sheep and goats is the clearest of any of the parables. Those on His left, the goats, did nothing for others, and this did nothing for Him. The ones on the right, the sheep, did.
So how do we discern online who is true and who false? We can't. We haven't a clue. Because friends there will be many who will never believe the same as you or I regarding theology, eschatology, soteriology, or even trigonometry. But they will be with Christ in glory because they fed the hungry, visited the sick, clothed the naked, gave shelter to the homeless, and visited those in prison. Oh, and because Christ gave His life a ransom for them too.
Even people here who are in abject error on doctrine, but who in lovel care for others ahead of themselves, who be held in higher honour than the one with the PhD who doesn't give a damn. That one, the PhD guy... The one thought of in the kingdom as least, may not even be there.

Amen ...very good post.
Whoops! And I am so sorry I forgot to tag you back at the beginning....( NOT that everyone's tag worked, they often don't....two at least said that they didn't get the tag) I just couldn't remember all the names those who may be interested in this subject. :)

Be blessed ....H.