Is Dispensationalism a valid way to interpret scripture?

[CharismaticLady]

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

These are to be in context together. Paul agreed and said that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is everyone since Adam. But Jesus came to take away our sin. All of it. That is what is meant by "ALL unrighteousness" not just a little so you have to keep declaring yourself a sinner. Jesus calls us sons, not sinners. John 8:34-36. No sinners of lawlessness will inherit the Kingdom of God.

What have you been taught is the reason Jesus came? What did He accomplish?

 

[Davy]

The apostles were Hebrews, not westerners. You have 1 John 1:8 contradicting 1 John 3:9. Why?

How is not committing sins of lawlessness having your cake and eating it too? Doesn't make sense.

The only contradiction I see here is what is in your mind, which goes directly against the 1 John 1 Chapter. And now with the fact that you are trying to say John is contradicting himself between 1 John 1 and 1 John 3 shows you haven't understood either chapter.

John in the 1 John 3 Chapter gave you comparison with those who work evil vs. those who do righteousness.

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
KJV

Isa 5:18-19
18 Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:
19 That say, Let Him make speed, and hasten His work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!
KJV

Is there an example written anywhere in God's Word that declared any other than Christ Jesus as being without sin? No, there is none except Him that came in the flesh and was without sin.

So what... is the difference between a believer in God and His Son that doesn't sin vs. the wicked?

Simple... those born of God, even though they have sinned, are not habitual sinners like the wicked, like those gone the way of Cain. John gave the example of Cain in the 1 John 3 Chapter to show the difference, and we're expected to understand the difference. That contrast was shown also in Jude 1, and even back in the Psalms and in the OT prophets like Isaiah 5 above.

But the doctrines of men you're listening to, because they cannot understand this simple matter just scrap John's Message in 1 John 1, or try to twist his words. The matter is simple: when you mess up and sin, try to correct it and repent to Jesus, and you'll stay in His Grace, and the Bridge will stay intact between you and Him, and He will forgive you of the sin, and often without suffering a penalty.

 

[Davy]

These are to be in context together. Paul agreed and said that all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. That is everyone since Adam. But Jesus came to take away our sin. All of it. That is what is meant by "ALL unrighteousness" not just a little so you have to keep declaring yourself a sinner. Jesus calls us sons, not sinners. John 8:34-36. No sinners of lawlessness will inherit the Kingdom of God.

What have you been taught is the reason Jesus came? What did He accomplish?

You're living in man's dream, and disregard what Apostle Paul said below about first belief on Jesus being for the remission of sins that are PAST...

Rom 3:24-25
24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV

 

[marks]

that IF we walk by The Spirit then we are dead to the law, and thus to sin.

HI Davy,

I don't think this is right. Romans 6 speaks of being dead to sin as a result of being baptized into Jesus' death and burial, and sharing His resurrection.

Romans 7 explains how we are dead to Law, again, having died in Jesus.
(edit . . . wrote "dead to sin", meant "dead to Law")

Galatians 5 teaches us that if we walk in the Spirit, then we won't do what the flesh wants. But I can't think of anything that teaches us we are only dead to the Law when we are walking in the Spirit.

Can you be more specific?

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

HI Davy,

I don't think this is right. Romans 6 speaks of being dead to sin as a result of being baptized into Jesus' death and burial, and sharing His resurrection.

Romans 7 explains how we are dead to Law, again, having died in Jesus.
(edit . . . wrote "dead to sin", meant "dead to Law")

Galatians 5 teaches us that if we walk in the Spirit, then we won't do what the flesh wants. But I can't think of anything that teaches us we are only dead to the Law when we are walking in the Spirit.

Can you be more specific?

Much love!

He's right. Except he's got it a little twisted around. The truth is we are dead to sin because of the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ. The law was to show us our sin, but if we are dead to sin, then there is no need for a law showing sin we are dead to.

 

[CharismaticLady]

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
KJV

Yes, I know. When we repent all our PAST sins are cleansed. What you don't understand is why only our past sins are forgiven. What happens then? Do you know? Do you understand the significance of why the disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem? What were they to receive?

POWER

 

[marks]

He's right. Except he's got it a little twisted around. The truth is we are dead to sin because of the indwelling of the Spirit of Christ. The law was to show us our sin, but if we are dead to sin, then there is no need for a law showing sin we are dead to.

Which is again what Paul wrote to Timothy, that the Law was given not for the righteous, but for the ungodly and so on.

We've been translated into an entirely different kingdom which happens to have an entirely different economy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, I know. When we repent all our PAST sins are cleansed. What you don't understand is why only our past sins are forgiven. What happens then? Do you know? Do you understand the significance of why the disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem? What were they to receive?

POWER

And you know . . . Romans 4 I think . . . where there is no law there is no transgression. The law is for the ungoldly, the unrighteous, and we are dead to the law.

Why only sins that are past? That which is born of God sins not.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

And you know . . . Romans 4 I think . . . where there is no law there is no transgression. The law is for the ungoldly, the unrighteous, and we are dead to the law.

Why only sins that are past? That which is born of God sins not.

Much love!

I agree.

Romans 4 is right in the middle of Paul's teaching on the LAW. The culmination is chapter 8. What is a doctrine of demons is taking the teaching that we are not under the law in the middle and translate that as a license to sin. Many have done that, including Martin Luther. Jude 1:4 calls that turning the grace of God into licentiousness!

 

[CharismaticLady]

And now with the fact that you are trying to say John is contradicting himself between 1 John 1 and 1 John 3 shows you haven't understood either chapter.

No, I said YOU are taking 1 John 1:8 and contradicting 1 John 3:9, not John.

 

[CharismaticLady]

So what... is the difference between a believer in God and His Son that doesn't sin vs. the wicked?

Are you serious? The way this is worded is hysterical! Did you mean to word it that way as if not sinning is wrong?

The wicked, sin. Believers in God and His Son do not sin. But they have nothing in common with the wicked.

BTW, 1 John 3:9 is commit, not practice.

What you don't understand is the power given us by Jesus. Yes, Jesus did not sin. What you don't know is we are given the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. His power over sin is given to us! Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

 

[marks]

I agree.

Romans 4 is right in the middle of Paul's teaching on the LAW. The culmination is chapter 8. What is a doctrine of demons is taking the teaching that we are not under the law in the middle and translate that as a license to sin. Many have done that, including Martin Luther. Jude 1:4 calls that turning the grace of God into licentiousness!

Either extreme is wrong in my opinion, whether liscentiousness to sin, or a living by rules.

Freedom from Law to me means that no longer do we need some outside code imperfectly regulating us through decrees, because we have the liberty from the corruption of the flesh, so we don't have to do it's stuff any longer, and that's what the Law was given to regulate.

The point being, the little bit that the Law required is far exceeded in the life in the Spirit. To look back to law, as children of God, is like being in graduate school, and spending your study time practicing cursive writing.

Of course . . . some may need to do just that! ;)

Much love!

 

[marks]

Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

What a glorious and wonderful reality!!

. . . partakers of the divine nature . . . children of our Heavenly Father!

Much love!

PS . . . this is all really good for me right now! Been having a difficult time. :)

 

[CharismaticLady]

Either extreme is wrong in my opinion, whether liscentiousness to sin, or a living by rules.

Freedom from Law to me means that no longer do we need some outside code imperfectly regulating us through decrees, because we have the liberty from the corruption of the flesh, so we don't have to do it's stuff any longer, and that's what the Law was given to regulate.

The point being, the little bit that the Law required is far exceeded in the life in the Spirit. To look back to law, as children of God, is like being in graduate school, and spending your study time practicing cursive writing.

Of course . . . some may need to do just that! ;)

Much love!

Yes, I agree.

 

[CharismaticLady]

What a glorious and wonderful reality!!

. . . partakers of the divine nature . . . children of our Heavenly Father!

Much love!

PS . . . this is all really good for me right now! Been having a difficult time. :)

I think we are pretty much on the same page so far. It is rare that I find any like-minded Christians that actually understand the Scriptures, and not what dead liberal denominations tell them to believe.

Looks like we have other things in common too. I've been having a difficult time too. :)

 

[Davy]

HI Davy,

I don't think this is right. Romans 6 speaks of being dead to sin as a result of being baptized into Jesus' death and burial, and sharing His resurrection.

You might want to go over Romans 6 again, the whole Chapter and not just a couple of verses. Anyone can get up at the pulpit and just pull out the Romans 6:1-11 verses, wrongly teach that we cannot sin anymore, and discard the rest of the Chapter...

Rom 6:11-13
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
KJV

Reckon means 'suppose'. It's not meant literally. It's meant metaphorically like a state of mind. The fact that in the next 12 & 13 verses Paul is giving the command to "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body..." is proof that we can still sin, and that Paul knew it. If you don't understand this difference Paul shows there, then you've allowed your preacher to dupe you.

Romans 7 explains how we are dead to Law, again, having died in Jesus.
(edit . . . wrote "dead to sin", meant "dead to Law")

Afraid not. You're still in Romans 6:1-10. Romans 7 is about how we sin and cannot keep from sin no matter how hard we try! Paul even declares a law in our fleshy members at battle against a law of the inner man (i.e, of The Spirit with God's laws).

Rom 7:18-25
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
KJV

Especially with that last phrase by Apostle Paul in red, how do we reconcile our being in Christ with that? Simple, repent and ask forgiveness when we do mess up, make corrections, then and get back to serving Christ doing His Work He gave us. It's as simple as that. Though Paul is not teaching repentance there at the end of Romans 7 as how to deal with matters of our flesh, Apostle John did in 1 John 1.

Galatians 5 teaches us that if we walk in the Spirit, then we won't do what the flesh wants. But I can't think of anything that teaches us we are only dead to the Law when we are walking in the Spirit.

Can you be more specific?

Much love!

That's correct, IF............. we walk in The Spirit, that's the key. That is not about our first belief on Jesus Christ. That walk means a continuing relationship with our Heavenly Father and His Son.

Do we? Do we as Christians absolutely... always... walk by The Spirit? Be honest, do we? No! We sometimes slip up, because there is only One Who was without sin born in the flesh, our Lord Jesus. All others were concluded under sin so the Promise by Faith would be to those who believe, like Paul said in Galatians 3:22.

 

[Davy]

Yes, I know. When we repent all our PAST sins are cleansed. What you don't understand is why only our past sins are forgiven. What happens then? Do you know? Do you understand the significance of why the disciples were told to wait in Jerusalem? What were they to receive?

POWER

This has already been well covered in Galatians 5 with walking in The Spirit according to Apostle Paul's teaching there, not man's teaching, which wrongly equates Paul's walking in The Spirit with just having Faith in Jesus. Paul gave specifics of walking by our flesh, or walking by The Spirit, and described the fruits of each. He wasn't vague like men's doctrines do.

 

[Davy]

No, I said YOU are taking 1 John 1:8 and contradicting 1 John 3:9, not John.

It's not me, it's you that doesn't understand, because you see the 1 John 1:6,8,10 verses as a contradiction to 1 John 3:9, so you try to reconcile it and wrongly assign the 1 John 1:6,8,10 verses to a non-believer, even as you yourself had said in an earlier post (#230).

Did you learn that false idea that 1 John 1:6, 8, & 10 is about the unbeliever from some preacher, or did you come up with that idea yourself?

 

[Davy]

Are you serious? The way this is worded is hysterical! Did you mean to word it that way as if not sinning is wrong?

The wicked, sin. Believers in God and His Son do not sin. But they have nothing in common with the wicked.

BTW, 1 John 3:9 is commit, not practice.

What you don't understand is the power given us by Jesus. Yes, Jesus did not sin. What you don't know is we are given the SPIRIT OF CHRIST. His power over sin is given to us! Did you know that when we are born again of the Spirit, our spirit or nature becomes divine?

Oh, I think you knew what I was saying. You're just looking for a way to ridicule. You have to include the subject I was speaking of in the previous sentence...

-------
"Is there an example written anywhere in God's Word that declared any other than Christ Jesus as being without sin? No, there is none except Him that came in the flesh and was without sin.

So what... is the difference between a believer in God and His Son that doesn't sin vs. the wicked?"
---------

I'll word the idea another way so you can understand. Since only Jesus was ordained to be perfect without sin, then what is the difference between us as believers who still fall short, vs. the wicked non-believer? We both still sin, even as Apostle Paul showed at the end of Romans 7.

The Difference:
We who have believed on The Father through His Son Jesus Christ have forgiveness when we repent, at the first for sins that are past, and repentance per 1 John 1 for sins we may commit in the future. The wicked are not cleansed and forgiven by Jesus, and are doomed to perish if they do not repent. Likewise those who once believed on Jesus but fall away are doomed to perish with the wicked.

 

[CharismaticLady]

This has already been well covered in Galatians 5 with walking in The Spirit according to Apostle Paul's teaching there, not man's teaching, which wrongly equates Paul's walking in The Spirit with just having Faith in Jesus. Paul gave specifics of walking by our flesh, or walking by The Spirit, and described the fruits of each. He wasn't vague like men's doctrines do.

Some Christians believe they have the Spirit just because the Bible says they must in order to belong to Christ. And yet they cannot relate to 1 John 3:9 in their own life.