Scripture is not the last word.

[tzcho2]

Scott, just wanted to tell you I have enjoyed your thread. And I've been encouraged and gotten a lot out of it. Thank you. :)

Very sad for you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

After picking a lot of fat and gristle off that bone...

There is SOO much unbelief going on here.

I keep thinking its just...fear...?

 

[farouk]

The faith was (past tense) delivered. What we have in our bibles is it. Any johnnie come lately doctrines are false and should be rejected. We in our brief lives will never mine all the gold buried within the bible. Why do we need new revelation when we can't unearth all the precious nuggets already in it?

Well, exactly. It's a body of doctrine all in the Word of God, and it's so rich and inexhaustible.

 

[justbyfaith]

Not one thing in that passage teaches a THING you've just said it teaches, but this is status quo for you, adding things to Scripture and denying what it really says. John 3:7.

I consider that the spiritual thing, to be compared with other spiritual thing, is scripture to be compared with scripture. Is not every verse in the Bible a spiritual truth? Therefore we can come to solid conclusions in reading our Bibles, when we take similar and contrasting scriptures and compare them to each other in order to conclude spiritual truths that we could not have understood apart from the synergy of looking at the verses together.

But I consider that in writing this I may be violating the principle of Matthew 7:6. Therefore I almost didn't respond; except that I know that there are some who will value the pearls being set forth and will pick them out of the mud after they have been trampled upon.

 

[tzcho2]

I keep thinking its just...fear...?

Nope. It's just obeying the scripture. Not making up sh.....:cool:

 

[ScottA]

I keep thinking its just...fear...?

Yes, indeed...fear is of the unknown.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Been thinking about the fear thing some more, epi. Its almost like when the religious leaders said - what are we going to do?? Now everyone will follow this man! Its like some strange repeat of that...like...what are we going to do?? Now everyone will follow the Holy Spirit!

 

[ScottA]

After picking a lot of fat and gristle off that bone...

There is SOO much unbelief going on here.

Unfortunately, this is the track record of God's people, who continually reject the next thing in God's plan. It is in fact so predictable that Jesus sighted the killing of the prophets...and then He Himself was also killed for the same misguided belief, which indeed, is not belief at all, but unbelief in it's worst hypocritical and ironic form.

Repeat, repeat, repeat.

 

[ScottA]

Been thinking about the fear thing some more, epi. Its almost like when the religious leaders said - what are we going to do?? Now everyone will follow this man! Its like some strange repeat of that...like...what are we going to do?? Now everyone will follow the Holy Spirit!

Should be the unofficial mantra of God's would-be followers.

 

[charity]

We often hear that the test of any comment or doctrine is scripture, and certainly it is a good test. It's just not the last word, nor is it the best test. Nor should it be considered our last line of defence. To do so, is to admit that we do not understand where we are in God's master plan of revelation, and that we do not have the Holy Spirit leading us unto all truth.

If we are under the impression that the scriptures are the final authority, the tie-breaker during these days...we are behind the times. Jesus made it clear that His "words are spirit." Moreover, by walking out the scriptures that were written of Him - He was put to death. You could say, what He did [by the word] according to the scriptures, was all that was humanly possible. For if a perfect Christ could not do perfectly according to the scriptures without being killed for it - there is nothing more or better that can be done. But, He did not leave it there.

Jesus told us exactly what the next phase was to be during these times - and it was not that we should keep referring back to the scriptures as the final say. No, after doing all that was humanly possible - in other words, by word, and by the scriptures - He very specifically stated that His last words would come as follows:

John 16:13
"However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come."

Likewise, the apostle Paul wrote:

Hebrews 6:1-2
"Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment."

Therefore, the scriptures, yes, even the elementary principles of Christ...once they are elementary to our learning - are to be "left" behind, that we may go on to "perfection"...which comes by "the Spirit of truth", or not at all.

So...as we enter into discussion here, please know that the scriptures only go so far in determining "all truth" and the last word.

Hello @ScottA,

The Word of God is the sum of all revelation. It is the sword of the Spirit, He wields no other weapon.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[ScottA]

Hello @ScottA,

The Word of God is the sum of all revelation. It is the sword of the Spirit, He wields no other weapon.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Indeed, this is true.

The problem is that many take that to mean the written world only...and as history has proven, every time the Spirit expounds upon the iceberg of what is written, God's people turn on each other and they kill the messenger.

 

[charity]

Indeed, this is true.

The problem is that many take that to mean the written world only...and as history has proven, every time the Spirit expounds upon the iceberg of what is written, God's people turn on each other and they kill the messenger.

Hi @ScottA,

I would not consider the written Word to be an 'iceburg', (cold, with more unseen below the surface than is visible above). If the Holy Spirit expounds upon it to the heart of the listening ear, it will always be a reflection of what is actually written, it will never go beyond it, only amplify it surely. Because He takes of the things of Christ and makes them known to us.

Do you have examples of God's people turning upon each other and killing the messenger? If so, then they are turning upon the Word of God itself, for He is the author of it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hello @ScottA,

The Word of God is the sum of all revelation. It is the sword of the Spirit, He wields no other weapon.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I don't think we are at all in a position to explain away or to try to portray as supposedly superseded the revelation we have in Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

Hi @ScottA,

I would not consider the written Word to be an 'iceburg', (cold, with more unseen below the surface than is visible above). If the Holy Spirit expounds upon it to the heart of the listening year, it will always be a reflection of what is actually written, it will never go beyond it, only amplify it surely. Because He takes of the things of Christ and makes them known to us.

Do you have examples of God's people turning upon each other and killing the messenger? If so, then they are turning upon the Word of God itself, for He is the author of it.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

You are contradicting yourself. But first, the "iceberg" analogy is its own iceberg. If you don't get the common understanding that there is more there than meets the eye...never mind. But it should have been clear. The point is, what is seen of God's word in the scriptures is the smaller part of the complete and infinite of all that is God. So to gauge God only by what is seen...well, that is a complete misrepresentation of God and His word.

It is a contradiction to say that the what is unseen will always be a reflection of what is actually written, but it will never go beyond it, only amplify it. That is also not the nature of God's use of parable language, because the object of all parables, is not the subject. That is what makes them a parable, and parables is the very means by which God has declared to make know the dark sayings of old, i.e., the mystery of God. But if you do not consider God's declaration fulfilled in part by Christ as an example of how the word is to be interpreted by spiritual meaning, or Paul's stating that the scriptures must be spiritually discerned...then the message has evaded you. Which does not mean that these things are not true, but rather that they have not been fully revealed to all, which is also just the way God works through time.

The example of God's people turning on each other and killing the messenger, came from Christ: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" ...after which, He Himself was crucified for the same reason.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

No keeping it within the context of the whole text. The problem is with this type of usage of the scripture , they can take each phrase or scripture and isolate it apart from the context that it is written , as if it can be used like a magic incantation to say anything they want it to. This is how individuals have concocted the prosperity gospel & the healing gospel. The "name it and claim it gospel".

Yes, this is what it is. He used to do this in ignorance, but at this point he's been warned enough and is without excuse. He and his teachings are to be rejected.

 

[Nondenom40]

That is not what I was saying.

But, yes, the use of past tense language, does indicate the "correct timing" of events.

If you mean by 'timing of events' the delivering of the faith, sure.

Just as we "were" crucified and raised up with Christ, and Him slain before the foundation of the world...the moment we cross from the timing and the history of the world, to the correct and timeless occurrences in God, it is all past tense.

Apples and oranges. Youre already starting to deviate.

This is the full meaning of what is meant by "It is written." Men of the world naturally think by their own understanding that the words simply mean "the scriptures"...because that is the extent of their knowledge.

No, its because its what scripture says; How many times did Jesus say 'it is written'? What was He referring to?

What did Paul say?

1Cor 4:6 I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn “not to go beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other.

You seem to be doing that very thing.

But these things were not written so, because of their knowledge, but rather of God's. In spite of it being written in this way, men tend to make it all fit their own understanding, and so error in understanding God.

Our study should reflect an attitude of humility but also a dependence on God to lead us.

2Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Lots of people study the bible because they have an agenda. Usually me me me. Lots of false teachers out there. But this verse tells us we can study and show ourselves approved of God....rightly dividing or accurately handling the word of truth. So sure, some twist and mangle scripture to fit their viewpoint, but it can be studied and interpreted accurately.

As for what we have in our bibles being it. That is only true for those who put a lid on it, who hinder the Infinite.

God determined the boundries of the canon, not man.

But don't get me wrong (again), I am not saying it is not all in the bible - because it is. It is just that, like those who all were in Adam and we who are all in Christ, are One...every written word is not fully expounded upon in ink or in the world, but rather in the spirit...which then is infinite, as God is infinite. So, unless you mean to say that God is not infinite -- do not continue saying that His word is limited to what the world reads. If you do...it is your own loss. He, nor those fully in Him, loose anything by you coming under the limited governance of the world and the very little that is seen in it by those who have no sight for all that is God.

"I am not saying it is not all in the bible - because it is."

"do not continue saying that His word is limited to what the world reads. If you do...it is your own loss."

Care to reconcile those two snippets? They appear to contradict each other. And if Gods written word which is contained in His word, isn't all there is then please share with us a doctrine or truth we need to know thats not found between Genesis and Revelation.

 

[ScottA]

1. If you mean by 'timing of events' the delivering of the faith, sure.
   [*]Apples and oranges. Youre already starting to deviate.
   [*]No, its because its what scripture says; How many times did Jesus say 'it is written'? What was He referring to?
   [*]What did Paul say? 1Cor 4:6 I have applied these things to myself and Apollos because of you, brothers and sisters, so that through us you may learn “not to go beyond what is written,” so that none of you will be puffed up in favor of the one against the other." You seem to be doing that very thing.
   [*]Our study should reflect an attitude of humility but also a dependence on God to lead us. 2Tim 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Lots of people study the bible because they have an agenda. Usually me me me. Lots of false teachers out there. But this verse tells us we can study and show ourselves approved of God....rightly dividing or accurately handling the word of truth. So sure, some twist and mangle scripture to fit their viewpoint, but it can be studied and interpreted accurately.
   [*]God determined the boundries of the canon, not man.
   [*]"I am not saying it is not all in the bible - because it is." "do not continue saying that His word is limited to what the world reads. If you do...it is your own loss." Care to reconcile those two snippets? They appear to contradict each other. And if Gods written word which is contained in His word, isn't all there is then please share with us a doctrine or truth we need to know thats not found between Genesis and Revelation.

1. I mean that all biblical events have there place on the calendar of the created world, but not the things of God's eternity. Therefore, certain points of scripture cannot even be written without stating the correct time as actually being before time (before the foundation of the world), and others as being the perceived time in the world as jointly with other times (such as all 'were" crucified and raised up with Christ even if they were not born yet).
2. Lambs and Bread could also be considered apples and oranges when speaking of Christ...but that would not be rightly dividing the word of truth, not discerning the scriptures spiritually. Such an argument is more than moot, it's wrong.
3. You can say that "It is written" means it is written in the scriptures, and it is true, just as you could also say that Christ saying, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father" is true. But the error in what you are claiming, is that you have allowed the greater meaning in one saying, but not in the other. Nonetheless, I have told you the truth in its greater meaning (just as in Christ saying "...you have see the Father", which is also true...whether you allow it or not.
4. By quoting Paul and claiming what he says means that we are never in a manner of speaking, to "press on", you do not point to me in error, but him. By not reconciling Paul's whole counsel, you have believed a half-truth which is not truth at all, but one word out of context and short of understanding.
5. Study is good, humility is good, and so is leaning on God to lead us. But what has that to do with boldly proclaiming the word of truth? And if I say I am not ashamed, will you therefore believe me, because it is written? Don't answer...the point is that it is you who has not rightly divided the word.
6. "Canon"...is that an apostolic term? Just kidding -- wouldn't want you to be cut down by the would-be apostolic police that are roaming about. But, yes, I agree, God's word is His providence alone. For this reason "women" (spiritually the bride of Christ) were counseled by Paul to keep silent in church, leaving all utterances during these time to the Head.
7. The scriptures are limited to what is manifest in the world of God's greater word ("all truth") in spirit. God has sealed all truth within the scriptures by confounding all language at Babel (which order has not been rescinded) and must therefore be discerned spiritually and protected from evil men until the end. Thus, we are to test every spirit. The point and the warning, is that by denying the unseen spiritual interpretation of the written word, you deny the Spirit and give aid to the evil who also know the scriptures and will use them against the Spirit.

 

[charity]

You are contradicting yourself. But first, the "iceberg" analogy is its own iceberg. If you don't get the common understanding that there is more there than meets the eye...never mind. But it should have been clear. The point is, what is seen of God's word in the scriptures is the smaller part of the complete and infinite of all that is God. So to gauge God only by what is seen...well, that is a complete misrepresentation of God and His word.

It is a contradiction to say that the what is unseen will always be a reflection of what is actually written, but it will never go beyond it, only amplify it. That is also not the nature of God's use of parable language, because the object of all parables, is not the subject. That is what makes them a parable, and parables is the very means by which God has declared to make know the dark sayings of old, i.e., the mystery of God. But if you do not consider God's declaration fulfilled in part by Christ as an example of how the word is to be interpreted by spiritual meaning, or Paul's stating that the scriptures must be spiritually discerned...then the message has evaded you. Which does not mean that these things are not true, but rather that they have not been fully revealed to all, which is also just the way God works through time.

The example of God's people turning on each other and killing the messenger, came from Christ: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" ...after which, He Himself was crucified for the same reason

Hello @ScottA,

I do not believe that I am contradicting myself. I also do not believe your use of the Old Testament example is a proof text for what you assert. Without the security of the bounds of the written Word, man lays himself open to the influence of 'spiritual wickedness' in the guise of 'angels of light', administering error in the guise of truth. A counterfeit in other words.

God is silent now. His revelation has been given in it's entirety.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[ScottA]

Hello @ScottA,

I do not believe that I am contradicting myself. I also do not believe your use of the Old Testament example is a proof text for what you assert. Without the security of the bounds of the written Word, man lays himself open to the influence of 'spiritual wickedness' in the guise of 'angels of light', administering error in the guise of truth. A counterfeit in other words.

God is silent now. His revelation has been given in it's entirety.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

No, that is totally false.

By considering that all spiritual activity is "spiritual wickedness", you have adjusted your beliefs to silence God and aid the devil. The "light in you is darkness", of which He gave warning. God is spirit, and you have decided to turn a deaf ear to Him. You have closed the door to Him, and therefore He will not "come in to you and dine with you", which is to say, He will not come in and partake with you in spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Folks...are you getting the irony here? That those who are speaking against the Spirit (meaning against God) and yet call themselves "Christian", are speaking out against those who honor and recognize the Spirit to be God and that He is alive and active in the lives of real Christians?

Such is the spirit of anti-Christ.