Should I be rebaptised?

[brakelite]

And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.

Hi brakelite......Do you believe that those "many other things which Jesus did" were never spoken of?

Curious Mary

Of course they were spoken of. But like all oral stories, they get embellished with age. After 2000 years I simply do not trust any more that anyone knows what they were. Particularly the church in tim,e who historically have exaggerated, lied, obfuscated, hidden truth for centuries if it was to the church's advantage. Money, power, greed, luxurious lifestyles have been the downfall of humans for millennia, and pope's, bishops, priests, are not immune.

 

[Stranger]

In MOST of my debates on this forum regarding the various Liturgical Rites that make up the Catholic Church - I almost ALWAYS refer to the Latin/Roman Rite. You're just angry because you've LOST this argument.

I warned you not to come to this discussion with your usual ignorance. Do your HOMEWORK if you want to have an intelligent conversation . . .

No, I'm just weary of your whining. As I said, give the wine to your parishioners and quit taking it for yourself.

Oh gee, you warned me? I guess your bold letters are supposed to scare me? Sorry pal. Your 'bold letters' are nothing but bold bs. No matter how deep it is, it all smells the same.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Alright kiddo.... you are casting aside Scripture that doesn't fit what you believe. That is your problem, not mine.

BTW....The chauvinism you portray in your response is another sign of what type of person you are.

Praying for you....Mary

Sorry, don't know what your mean. What Scripture did I cast aside.

And, what 'chauvinism'.

Do you really pray for me Mary? What do you pray?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Hi Quantrill (a well documented stone cold killer and pro-enslavement of his fellow human being thief)

I know it is difficult for you to admit you can't use Scripture to back up what you believe. It's ok....You have fallen for the 500 year teaching of your protestant fathers that led you astray. Don't be ashamed....there are millions of you.

Mary

Mary, Mary quite contrary. I have plenty of Scripture to back up what I believe. You're the one asking the lame question, 'what is Scripture'. post # (1239) As I said, your tradition certainly is not Scripture. Try and keep up.

I am not ashamed of the former Protestants. Nor am I ashamed of Quantrill. Did he get any of yours Mary?

Quantrill (alias stranger)

 

[Stranger]

I read this article and thought of you:

Mainline Protestantism Declared A Safe Space For Those Offended By The Gospel

Keeping it fun....Mary

Sorry Mary, I don't waste time reading links if you don't waste time telling me what is in them.

See you again in another month or so, or whenever you feel like coming out from hiding.

And lest you forget, please remember Quantrill, along with his many compatriots who fought for the South, this Memorial day. I know I thank them for their service. And it will be remembered.

Quantrill

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, I'm just weary of your whining. As I said, give the wine to your parishioners and quit taking it for yourself.

Oh gee, you warned me? I guess your bold letters are supposed to scare me? Sorry pal. Your 'bold letters' are nothing but bold bs. No matter how deep it is, it all smells the same.

Stranger

No - you're just "weary" of getting caught in so many LIES and being exposed.

As I said earlier - I almost ALWAYS refer to the Latin Rite, the "Latin/Roman" or the "Roman/Latin" Rite.

 

[Stranger]

No - you're just "weary" of getting caught in so many LIES.

As I said earlier - I almost ALWAYS refer to the Latin Rite, the "Latin/Roman" or the "Roman/Latin" Rite.

Have some whine with that cracker. That's more than you give the Christians in the Roman Church.

Stranger

 

[BreadOfLife]

Have some whine with that cracker. That's more than you give the Christians in the Roman Church.

Stranger

Now, there's an "intelligent" response . . .

 

[Marymog]

Of course they were spoken of. But like all oral stories, they get embellished with age. After 2000 years I simply do not trust any more that anyone knows what they were. Particularly the church in tim,e who historically have exaggerated, lied, obfuscated, hidden truth for centuries if it was to the church's advantage. Money, power, greed, luxurious lifestyles have been the downfall of humans for millennia, and pope's, bishops, priests, are not immune.

Thank you.

I agree, "stories get embellished with age". Where is your evidence that any of those non-biblical 'oral traditions', such as the Gospel of James, have been embellished?

Mary

PS...Since @Pearl "liked" your statement maybe she could help you with your research.

 

[Marymog]

Do you really pray for me Mary?

What do you pray?

Stranger

Yes, every day!!

I pray that you hold up a Christian as a hero of yours instead of a stone cold thieving killer.
I pray that you realize how your support of enslaving of another human being is not Christian like.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Sorry Mary, I don't waste time reading links if you don't waste time telling me what is in them.

See you again in another month or so, or whenever you feel like coming out from hiding.

And lest you forget, please remember Quantrill, along with his many compatriots who fought for the South, this Memorial day. I know I thank them for their service. And it will be remembered.

Quantrill

LOL....You don't have to read the link kiddo....Just read the headline....;)

I do remember the "compatriots who fought for the South" and pray that their pro-enslavement of their fellow human beings beliefs that they fought for (and thankfully died for) will never poison this great country again.

Mary

 

[Pearl]

PS...Since @Pearl "liked" your statement maybe she could help you with your research.

The template and pattern for the ideal church is set out in Acts 4:32-35 but the church has been led in a different direction over the centuries and has become a hierarchy in which men seek to rule and lord it over fellow Christians, and the ways of men take precedent over the ways of God.

In some parts of the church some of the traditions passed down by men have become more important than what is actually written in scripture. I mean where in scripture does it say to pray to saints or to Mary, or that we should light candles or waft incense around, or that the priest should wear expensive and elaborate costumes?

Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light and yet some parts of the church turn relationship into religion and make it all exceedingly difficult, heavy and complicated.

 

[Marymog]

The template and pattern for the ideal church is set out in Acts 4:32-35 but the church has been led in a different direction over the centuries and has become a hierarchy in which men seek to rule and lord it over fellow Christians, and the ways of men take precedent over the ways of God.

In some parts of the church some of the traditions passed down by men have become more important than what is actually written in scripture. I mean where in scripture does it say to pray to saints or to Mary, or that we should light candles or waft incense around, or that the priest should wear expensive and elaborate costumes?

Jesus said his yoke is easy and his burden is light and yet some parts of the church turn relationship into religion and make it all exceedingly difficult, heavy and complicated.

Thank you for your research Pearl. Scripture says a bit more than that (Acts 4:32-35) about a "template and pattern for the ideal church". The passage you provided ONLY speaks of sharing possessions. That is very important but sadly not practiced by most Christians.

You seem to loathe the "hierarchy" of The Church but Jesus disagrees with you: Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you.

Do you know what "Moses seat" is?

The two biblical offices are elders and deacons (Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 3:8–13). Furthermore 1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 6:1-15, Titus 1:5 Philippians 1:1 etc. etc destroys your " hierarchy in which men seek to rule and lord it over fellow Christians" theory. In 2 Timothy 2:2 it is made clear that accurate and truthful teachings of Jesus are to be taught to faithful men. They are to "teach others also". Not you teach yourself and then tell everyone what YOU think Scripture says. Scripture clearly establishes a hierarchical Church of which men rule over and teach the Truth to their fellow Christians. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

As far as your "traditions passed down by men have become more important than what is actually written in script" statement, I agree with you. For you see the Protestant tradition you are following has become more important then what is written.

Anyone that is praying "to" saints or Mary is not practicing the Christian faith. Anyone who asks another to intercede for them, which is what Catholics and other denominations practice, is biblically based. In Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. ;)

So I appreciate what little research you did you however Scripture says more then what you believe so please feel free to practice what ALL of Scripture says, not just the parts you like.

I appreciate the Scripture passage you have brought to this discussion. Thank you for taking the time to discuss this matter with me.

Mary

 

[Pearl]

Thank you for your research Pearl. Scripture says a bit more than that (Acts 4:32-35) about a "template and pattern for the ideal church". The passage you provided ONLY speaks of sharing possessions. That is very important but sadly not practiced by most Christians.

You seem to loathe the "hierarchy" of The Church but Jesus disagrees with you: Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you.

Do you know what "Moses seat" is?

The two biblical offices are elders and deacons (Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 3:8–13). Furthermore 1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 6:1-15, Titus 1:5 Philippians 1:1 etc. etc destroys your " hierarchy in which men seek to rule and lord it over fellow Christians" theory. In 2 Timothy 2:2 it is made clear that accurate and truthful teachings of Jesus are to be taught to faithful men. They are to "teach others also". Not you teach yourself and then tell everyone what YOU think Scripture says. Scripture clearly establishes a hierarchical Church of which men rule over and teach the Truth to their fellow Christians. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

As far as your "traditions passed down by men have become more important than what is actually written in script" statement, I agree with you. For you see the Protestant tradition you are following has become more important then what is written.

Anyone that is praying "to" saints or Mary is not practicing the Christian faith. Anyone who asks another to intercede for them, which is what Catholics and other denominations practice, is biblically based. In Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. ;)

So I appreciate what little research you did you however Scripture says more then what you believe so please feel free to practice what ALL of Scripture says, not just the parts you like.

I appreciate the Scripture passage you have brought to this discussion. Thank you for taking the time to discuss this matter with me.

Mary

OK Mary you are right in your own mind and I feel I am right in my own mind too but we if we both have the same Spirit of Jesus in us, the Holy Spirit, then that makes us family - sisters united in Christ - whatever our doctrinal difference may be. I am not trying to change your mind. You asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability but I obviously have not passed your test. But no probs. Agree to disagree? Peace.

 

[Marymog]

OK Mary you are right in your own mind and I feel I am right in my own mind too but we if we both have the same Spirit of Jesus in us, the Holy Spirit, then that makes us family - sisters united in Christ - whatever our doctrinal difference may be. I am not trying to change your mind. You asked a question and I answered to the best of my ability but I obviously have not passed your test. But no probs. Agree to disagree? Peace.

Thanks Pearl.

We are sisters in Christ.

I am not trying to change your mind either. The words I gave you were not my words they were the words of Jesus and the Apostles. Hopefully THEY will change your mind; not me.

Thank you....Peace to you also...Mary

 

[brakelite]

Thank you for your research Pearl. Scripture says a bit more than that (Acts 4:32-35) about a "template and pattern for the ideal church". The passage you provided ONLY speaks of sharing possessions. That is very important but sadly not practiced by most Christians.

You seem to loathe the "hierarchy" of The Church but Jesus disagrees with you: Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you.

Do you know what "Moses seat" is?

The two biblical offices are elders and deacons (Acts 14:23; 1 Timothy 3:8–13). Furthermore 1 Timothy 5:17, Acts 6:1-15, Titus 1:5 Philippians 1:1 etc. etc destroys your " hierarchy in which men seek to rule and lord it over fellow Christians" theory. In 2 Timothy 2:2 it is made clear that accurate and truthful teachings of Jesus are to be taught to faithful men. They are to "teach others also". Not you teach yourself and then tell everyone what YOU think Scripture says. Scripture clearly establishes a hierarchical Church of which men rule over and teach the Truth to their fellow Christians. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

As far as your "traditions passed down by men have become more important than what is actually written in script" statement, I agree with you. For you see the Protestant tradition you are following has become more important then what is written.

Anyone that is praying "to" saints or Mary is not practicing the Christian faith. Anyone who asks another to intercede for them, which is what Catholics and other denominations practice, is biblically based. In Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of “golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” If the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. ;)

So I appreciate what little research you did you however Scripture says more then what you believe so please feel free to practice what ALL of Scripture says, not just the parts you like.

I appreciate the Scripture passage you have brought to this discussion. Thank you for taking the time to discuss this matter with me.

Mary

KJV Luke 22
Strife About Greatness
24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

While I agree that there ought to be leaders in the church who are to take responsibility for taking the gospel to the world, and for raising up disciples to follow in their footsteps, that is hardly what characterises Catholicism. Rome seeks lordship over everyone... The whole world... And is by example, through policy and practice a persecuting church taking its "template" not from scripture, but from her pagan predecessor. And passed that baton on to her Protestant children.

 

[epostle]

@epostle

That there are local churches in the Scripture, and that there is the all encompassing Church of Jesus Christ is in the Scripture. But the word 'catholic' is not used in the Scripture to describe the Church.

No, what bugs me is when you manipulate the Greek language to make it say 'catholic' when it didn't. You are nothing but the Roman Church that wants to rule over the whole Church of Jesus Christ.

Stranger

Oh sure, and KATHOLICOS is a Greek breakfast cereal. See Romans 1:8
additional reading:

The word Catholic

The word Catholic was first coined by Ignatius of Antioch, a direct hearer and disciple of the Apostle John:

Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. (ekklesia katholicos) [letter to the Smyrneans (35-107 A.D.)]

ekklesia katholicos soon became in many cases a mere appellative or proper name of the true Church founded by Christ.

The word katholicos is a Greek word derive from two words kata-, down, along, according to; + holou (from neuter genitive of holos, whole.) The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company and the same explanation given by Online Etymology Dictionary, 2001 Douglas Harper

It is worthy to note that the original language of the New Testament books was written in Greek, so by going back to its original language we can find verses that deal to the question on where is that in the bible.

Acts 9:31

Greek

Ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.

Transliteration

ē men oun ekklēsia kath olēs tēs ioudaias kai galilaias kai samareias eichen eirēnēn oikodomoumenē kai poreuomenē tō phobō tou kuriou kai tē paraklēsei tou agiou pneumatos eplēthuneto.

ἐκκλησία

καθ’

ὅλης

ekklēsia

kath’

holēs

churches

throughout

all


Acts 5:11 Great fear seized the whole church and all who heard about these things.

ὅλην

τὴν

ἐκκλησίαν

holēn

tēn

ekklēsian

all

the

church,

Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas namely Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas chief men among the brethren.

ὅλῃ

τῇ

ἐκκλησίᾳ

holē

tē

ekklēsia

all

the

church,

Therefore, ekklesi

Matthew 28:19 therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

Because the Church that Christ founded is a Universal Church – a Catholic Church… races from all nations gathered before him.
a katholicos which means “Universal Church” can be trace within the core text of the bible: holen ten ekklesian means “The Whole Church” or ekklesia kath holes which simply means “The Church throughout the whole” which were both used by no less than the Apostles themselves.

Matthew 28:19 therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Mark 16:15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

Because the Church that Christ founded is a Universal Church – a Catholic Church… races from all nations gathered before him.
The word “Catholic” where is that in the Bible? - THE SPLENDOR OF THE CHURCH

 

[Stranger]

Now, there's an "intelligent" response . . .

I reply in kind.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Yes, every day!!

I pray that you hold up a Christian as a hero of yours instead of a stone cold thieving killer.
I pray that you realize how your support of enslaving of another human being is not Christian like.

Mary

Was Quantrill not a Christian?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

LOL....You don't have to read the link kiddo....Just read the headline....;)

I do remember the "compatriots who fought for the South" and pray that their pro-enslavement of their fellow human beings beliefs that they fought for (and thankfully died for) will never poison this great country again.

Mary

No thanks sweetheart.

Ah, but Mary, they didn't all die...did they? So, I thank them for their service, those that died and those that live.

Stranger