According to Scripture, the 7th Trump is the last Trump, as it mentions no other. I'm inclined to believe that this is the timing of the Rapture.
Last Trump vs Seventh
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According to Scripture the 7th trumpet has nothing to do with the trump(et) of God (the last trump).
God does not pour seven vials of wrath on His children.
Exactly. And that is why it is NOT the trump of God summoning the saints to Heaven!
Davy
Well-Known Member
You should believe that is the timing of Christ's gathering of His Church, because that last trumpet with those alive being changed at the twinkling of an eye is what Paul was talking about in 1 Thess.4 concerning the saints still alive on that day. But for the "asleep" saints, they aren't raptured on that day, they are resurrected on that day. Paul covered that too in the 1 Cor.15 and 1 Thess.4 events.
Davy
Well-Known Member
In reality, the 7th trumpet and 7th vial both happen at the same time.
In Revelation 16:15, in the 6th Vial timing, Jesus is still warning His Church on earth to keep their garments, for He said there that He comes "as a thief". That means by that 6th Vial, He still has not come to gather His Church yet.
And because He used that metaphor "as a thief", we KNOW He was speaking to all His Church, and not just some trib saints idea from men's doctrines. The reason is because both Apostles Paul and Peter also taught about that "as a thief" timing with the "day of the Lord" event, which is the last day of this world when God's consuming fire will burn man's works off this earth (2 Peter 3:10; 1 Thess.5).
On the 6th Vial the nations are gathered in prep for the battle of Armageddon.
Then on the 7th Vial is that battle, which are the events of Rev.19 with Jesus' 2nd coming with His army to do battle.
How can they happen "at the same time" since there are seven vials of wrath within the 7th trumpet judgment, and each one is poured out successively over a period of time ( which is relatively short)?
The 7th trumpet is God's ultimate announcement and pronouncement of judgment on the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, and the enemies of Christ. And within it are successive judgments.
But the 7th trumpet has absolutely nothing to do with the ingathering of the saints at the Rapture. For that we have the trump of God or the last trump summoning the saints to Heaven.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Like I showed, the 7th trumpet and 7th vial events occur at the same time. They are both about the event of Jesus' 2nd coming with His army from Heaven on the "day of the Lord", and that is when Paul showed the "sudden destruction" on the "day of the Lord" is upon those who will be saying, "Peace and safety". When the 7th Vial happens, it's all over. When the 7th Trumpet happens, it's all over; so duh.... a little child can figure this out.
Davy
Well-Known Member
The 7th Trumpet is the last event of this world when Jesus returns to do battle also.
Rev 11:14-19
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Our Lord Jesus gave 3 Woes along with the last 3 Trumpets, starting with the 5th Trumpet back in Revelation 9. The events that happen within each trumpet are the periods of each woe. The tribulation is on that second woe, and it began back at Revelation 9:12 and continues all the way up to this 3rd Woe that's getting ready to happen at this point in Revelation 11:14.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."
Here the 7th Trumpet sounds. What happens there? The kingdoms of THIS WORLD become the kingdoms of The Father and The Son, and He (Jesus) will then take reign over the whole earth, and reign forever. That has yet to happen today. It will accompany His literal, physical return to this earth per Zechariah 14 and Acts 1.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give Thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken to Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The nations are angry because that 7th trumpet is the time of God's cup of wrath to be poured out upon the wicked on earth, which is the subject of the 7th Vial of Revelation 16, and is the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked that Paul preached in 1 Thessalonians 5. The time of the dead means the resurrection, which is to occur on the last day of this present world. The rewards to the saints are given out only when Jesus returns and the resurrection has happened, so don't let anyone tell you the stupid idea that this isn't about the end of this present world with Jesus' return to earth to reign over His enemies.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV
That "great hail" is the event of Christ's return with His army to do battle...
Rev 16:19-21
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
KJV
Ezek 38:22-23
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 Thus will I magnify Myself, and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV
Rev 11:14-19
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Our Lord Jesus gave 3 Woes along with the last 3 Trumpets, starting with the 5th Trumpet back in Revelation 9. The events that happen within each trumpet are the periods of each woe. The tribulation is on that second woe, and it began back at Revelation 9:12 and continues all the way up to this 3rd Woe that's getting ready to happen at this point in Revelation 11:14.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He shall reign for ever and ever."
Here the 7th Trumpet sounds. What happens there? The kingdoms of THIS WORLD become the kingdoms of The Father and The Son, and He (Jesus) will then take reign over the whole earth, and reign forever. That has yet to happen today. It will accompany His literal, physical return to this earth per Zechariah 14 and Acts 1.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give Thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, Which art, and wast, and art to come; because Thou hast taken to Thee Thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The nations are angry because that 7th trumpet is the time of God's cup of wrath to be poured out upon the wicked on earth, which is the subject of the 7th Vial of Revelation 16, and is the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked that Paul preached in 1 Thessalonians 5. The time of the dead means the resurrection, which is to occur on the last day of this present world. The rewards to the saints are given out only when Jesus returns and the resurrection has happened, so don't let anyone tell you the stupid idea that this isn't about the end of this present world with Jesus' return to earth to reign over His enemies.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
KJV
That "great hail" is the event of Christ's return with His army to do battle...
Rev 16:19-21
19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
KJV
Ezek 38:22-23
22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23 Thus will I magnify Myself, and sanctify Myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV
Yeah, a little child would tell you that it is far from over when the 7th trumpet sounds. That child would take you from Revelation 11 through to Revelation 21 and show you why you are totally mistaken. But if you prefer delusions to the truth, that is your choice.
Davy
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised that you can even find the chapters of Revelation 11 through 21, since the doctrine of man you follow teaches that the Church is no longer here on earth after Revelation 4!
MrBebe
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If that is the case, there must be vials before the 7th vial that can be referenced from any trumpet earlier than the 7th one. Look at the verse from the Sixth Trumpet about the two witnesses.
(Rev 11:6 LITV) These have the authority to shut up the heaven, that no rain may rain in the days of their prophecy. And they have authority over the waters, to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire.
Compare it to the following verses:
(Rev 16:3 LITV) And the second angel poured out his bowl onto the sea. And it became blood, as of a dead one, and every soul of life died in the sea.
(Rev 16:4 LITV) And the third angel poured out his bowl onto the rivers, and onto the springs of the waters; and it became blood.
(Rev 16:4 LITV) And the third angel poured out his bowl onto the rivers, and onto the springs of the waters; and it became blood.
Davy
Well-Known Member
That's correct. The false Messiah will come on the 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th vial, i.e., 666. And that will be when the "abomination of desolation" idol is placed in Jerusalem, spiritually desolating the new temple today's Jews are getting ready to build.
It seems that you are not able to visualise the order in Rev.16. The order of the bowls is from the last to the first, not in the chronological order in which they are recorded.
It seems that you too need to be lead to the truth as well because of you inability to visualise the truth, which is what you were suggesting in another thread.
Shalom
Davy
Well-Known Member
It would be a miracle for you to even begin to fathom my Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation, since you keep so many doctrines of Judaism regarding Israel's gathering back to the holy lands.
And saying the last vial is the 1st vial is really... ignorant, and a blatant attempt to cause confusion here.
Revelation 10
[7] But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
1 Corinthians 15
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Davy, that is a false claim and a lie on your part.
What I have been consistently stating on this forum is that God will be gathering the Saints of Israel to Himself where they are living and will teach them in His Fertile field where they are found scattered throughout the whole earth. Nowhere in what I have posted do I express or see Jacob's descendants returning to the "Promised Land," i.e. the Land of Canaan, for God's purposes to be fulfilled.
And as to the order of the Bowls in Rev.16 the chapter itself gives us the clues as to when they will be poured out.
The seventh bowl has already happened with the sixth bowl being presently unfolding today will another 20-30 years before it has run it full course to completion with the three foul smelling frog like spirits going out to the whole world doing signs and wonders to begin drawing the kings of the world to judgement at Armageddon.
Now if you can refute this then please present your evidence with the facts of what you have already seen and recorded being played out on the world stage.
Shalom
Not telling you what to do,nor downing your beliefs,but please do a study on the resurrection.Look at the different meanings of that word.
Helen
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From where I sit..'the seven trumps' ( plus 7 vials etc etc ) have nothing to do with The Last Trump!!!
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