It is your contention that I side with them; not the truth but a lie.
But I am right because the Bible, (capital "B") is right.
Proof of the Trinity. No takers?
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It is your contention that I side with them; not the truth but a lie.
But I am right because the Bible, (capital "B") is right.
I confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh...do you?
Again, I don't expect you to answer...and when you don't, it will speak volumes as to who of us really has the spirit of Antichrist.
Again, I don't expect you to answer...and when you don't, it will speak volumes as to who of us really has the spirit of Antichrist.
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What is the name of the Father when you compare Acts of the Apostles 2:38 with Matthew 28:19? Did He come in the flesh or didn't He?
You need to consider that the son that was given will have His name be called the everlasting Father according to Isaiah 9:6...and that the zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this, Isaiah 9:7.
Assuming your doctrine is correct...
When God the Son descended into time in order to become flesh...did He inhabit eternity before that? Was He God, the high and lofty one who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15)? When He ascended to inhabit eternity once again (Ephesians 4:10), how many Persons called the Son of God now dwell in heaven? Are there two Sons? Was there a God besides YHWH who was not YHWH next to YHWH indwelling eternity?
When God the Son descended into time in order to become flesh...did He inhabit eternity before that? Was He God, the high and lofty one who inhabiteth eternity (Isaiah 57:15)? When He ascended to inhabit eternity once again (Ephesians 4:10), how many Persons called the Son of God now dwell in heaven? Are there two Sons? Was there a God besides YHWH who was not YHWH next to YHWH indwelling eternity?
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The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost both preexist and are throughout and at the end of time equally. All three inhabit eternity as one and the same Spirit, one and the same Lord, and one and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6, Ephesians 4:4-6). But distinctly three. The Son and the Holy Ghost have the same experiential knowledge that the Father lacks. The Son is in flesh, and the Spirit of the Son is a Spirit.
translated as,
Acts 2:38 is a corrupt promise then (if I do not have the Spirit of truth)...a person can fulfill the condition of the promise and not reap the benefits of doing so. Therefore we cannot trust in any of the promises of God, if what you say is true.
The only exception to the rule being that if someone commits the unpardonable sin after receiving baptism in Jesus' Name, they are in danger of eternal damnation and the Holy Ghost may very well leave them.
I have to say that I resent you drawing me into a conversation that turned out to be ugly, which is beneath my normal standards; because I didn't want you to be wise in your own eyes (Proverbs 26:4-5) out of care and concern for you. And also, in your tongue rising up against me in judgment, I felt that I would be neglecting my heritage as a servant of the LORD not to condemn it. Isaiah 54:17.
You do not understand Act 2:38. It is not about salvation. It is about saved Jews (believers) entering the New Covenant and receiving the Holy Spirit through repentance. No body butchers Acts more than the Charismatics. Because they have an agenda in search of evidence.
How can the Father be the Father without the Son? And if God does not change (Malachi 3:6) how can God become the Father at the incarnation?
101G
Well-Known Member
now Dave, that's nonsensical. one can be a Father without a son. listen
Genesis 4:20 "And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle". he was just the FIRST one to do it. like Nike "Just do it". :)
Read Gill's commentaryon this verse, "he was the first author and inventor of tents or movable habitations, which could be carried from place to place".
so are the tents his son?
well let's get to the NT, and challenge you natural mind in the flesh. scripture,
1 Timothy 1:2 "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
was Timothy Paul, NATURAL BORN Son? of course not. he was his "son" in FAITH, not a NATURAL son of Paul, which make Paul his "father" in FAITH.
see it now?.
PICJAG
But scripture defines clearly the sense in which the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relate. Jesus the Son of Man learned in the same sense you proclaim Paul to be a "father" to Timothy. But you fall short if you stop there and miss the big picture.
"There is one Person of the Father who is always the Father, distinct from the Son and the Spirit; and there is another Person of the Son who is always the Son, distinct from the Father and the Spirit; and another Person of the Holy Spirit who is always the Holy Spirit, distinct from the Father and the Son. In this three-fold tri-personal self-revelation of God, one Person is not more or less God, for all three Persons are coeternal and coequal. They are all perfectly one in the identity of their Nature and perfectly homoousial or consubstantial in their Being. Each of the three Persons is, himself, Lord and God, and yet there are not three Lords or Gods, but only one Lord God, and there is only one and the same eternal Being of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Trinity of three divine Persons is, thus, perfectly homogeneous and unitary, both in the threeness and oneness of God’s personal activity, and in the threeness and oneness of his eternal unchangeable personal Being. One Being, Three Persons."
T. F. Torrance on The Trinity
101G
Well-Known Member
see dave, that's your problem, you quote MEN, and not the Holy scriptures, which states different
NO, and again I say no, the scripture "DO NOT" defines nothing that say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relate. Father and Son are only title that is "OWNED" by the Holy Spirit, who is the Only PERSON who is ETERNAL.
Here's the BIG PICTURE, Jesus in flesh learned, because he, himself G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') his ownself while in flesh.
let's STOP here for a minute, and slip this atom of confusion. dave who made Jesus a "little" lower than the angels? lets check the record,
exibit A. Psalms 8:5 "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour." (This seems like someone else "made" Jesus a little lower than the angel), it seems ..... don't it?
exibit B. Hebrews 2:7 "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands". again, (This seems like someone else "made" Jesus a little lower than the angel .... right?
: ).exibit C. Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".
so it seems like someone else beside Jesus himself, "made" him a little lower" than the angel, right.... :) boy I love this.
well, lets check the record and see,
exibit D. Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"
MADE "HIMSELF", say what? remember what I said dave. "the TRUTH hurts some of the time, but a lie will kill you all the time".
understand, the TRUTH will come out. in Psalms, and in Hebrews God, Jesus himself the Spirit was speaking in past tense of his coming in flesh.
the Thou in Psalms and repeated in Hebrews is the SAME Person who made "HIMSELF" lower than the angels.
this is diversity 101. meaning, this is basic BIBLE STUDY with the Holy Ghost as TEACHER.
so I suggest you drop T. F. Torrance on The Trinity, and GET the Holy Spirit, the true TEACHER who will guide and teach us in all things. amen.
PICJAG
You are confusing the preexisting eternal Son of God with the incarnate Son of man who came into existence when conceived and born of Mary.see dave, that's your problem, you quote MEN, and not the Holy scriptures, which states different
NO, and again I say no, the scripture "DO NOT" defines nothing that say the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit relate. Father and Son are only title that is "OWNED" by the Holy Spirit, who is the Only PERSON who is ETERNAL.
Here's the BIG PICTURE, Jesus in flesh learned, because he, himself G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') his ownself while in flesh.
let's STOP here for a minute, and slip this atom of confusion. dave who made Jesus a "little" lower than the angels? lets check the record,
exibit A. Psalms 8:5 "For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour." (This seems like someone else "made" Jesus a little lower than the angel), it seems ..... don't it?
exibit B. Hebrews 2:7 "Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands". again, (This seems like someone else "made" Jesus a little lower than the angel .... right?
exibit C. Hebrews 2:9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man".
so it seems like someone else beside Jesus himself, "made" him a little lower" than the angel, right.... :) boy I love this.
well, lets check the record and see,
exibit D. Philippians 2:7 "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men"
MADE "HIMSELF", say what? remember what I said dave. "the TRUTH hurts some of the time, but a lie will kill you all the time".
understand, the TRUTH will come out. in Psalms, and in Hebrews God, Jesus himself the Spirit was speaking in past tense of his coming in flesh.
the Thou in Psalms and repeated in Hebrews is the SAME Person who made "HIMSELF" lower than the angels.
this is diversity 101. meaning, this is basic BIBLE STUDY with the Holy Ghost as TEACHER.
so I suggest you drop T. F. Torrance on The Trinity, and GET the Holy Spirit, the true TEACHER who will guide and teach us in all things. amen.
PICJAG
If the “Son” has not eternally existed with (personally distinct from) the Father why then is the Son presented as the agent of creation, that is, the Creator Himself? (for in Oneness theology *only Jesus as the “Father” mode existed prior to Bethlehem).
Note: in passages such as John 1:3, 1 Corinthians 8:6; Colossians 1:16-17, Hebrews 1:2, 10-12, the “Son” is clearly presented as agent of creation, the Creator Himself. Specifically, in John 1:3; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Colossians 1:16; Hebrews 1:2 and 2:10, the Greek preposition dia (“though”) is followed by a pronoun (autou, “Him”) in the *genitive* case (or possessive case). Grammatically, when dia is followed by the genitive (as in these passages), the preposition indicates “agency” (cf. Daniel B. Wallace, GGBB, 368; J. Harold Greenlee, A Concise Exegetical Grammar of New Testament Greek, 5th ed. 31; A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, 4:478-79; and cf. also Walter Bauer’s, A Greek English Lexicon of the New Testament,3rd ed. [hereafter BDAG], 225).
Hence, exegetically these passages do not indicate that the Son was a mere instrument of creation (as Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons believe), nor, as Oneness teachers argue, these passages indicate that the Son was only a “thought” or “plan” in the Father’s mind when the Father (Jesus’ divine nature) created all things. Rather the Son is biblically (exegetically) presented as the Creator of all things Himself. That the Son was the Creator clearly disproves the Oneness position. This is the greatest weakness of the Oneness position: For if the Son created, then, He eternally existed with the Father.
10 Questions to ask Oneness PENTECOSTALS
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101G
Well-Known Member
this is your ERROR, the Son of God is FLESH, and the son of God is born, listen,
Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God".
son of God was born, not the Son of man, THAT's YOUR ERROR.
now dave who is the son of God? think before you answer.
God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He took on human flesh at the incarnation and became the visible of the invisible.
“God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.” (Hebrews 1:1–2) (NASB95)
“And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,” (Hebrews 1:3) (NASB95)
101G
Well-Known Member
I want you to look at what you said, and we will take these question one at a time,
exibit A. "God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".
if that's true, scripture,
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
dave, ONLY, means "one", the one whom you say is the son, a separate person from the one whom you calls the Father and the Holy Ghost as your doctrine of the trinity states.
Please explain how the Son is the one with "IMMORTALIY".
and immortality means, the ability to live forever; eternal life. and the one whom your doctrine say is the Son is the ONLY ONE who have it according to 1 Timothy 6:16, please explain.
“Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” (Hebrews 13:8) (HCSB)
Forever = 67.87 ἐχθὲς καὶ σήμερον καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας: (an idiom, literally ‘yesterday, today, and forever’) an unlimited extension of time, from the past into the future—‘always, eternally, past and present and future.’ Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς ἐχθὲς καὶ σήμερον ὁ αὐτός, καὶ εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ‘Jesus Christ is eternally the same’ or ‘Jesus Christ is the same in the past, in the present, and in the future’ He 13:8.
Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 639). New York: United Bible Societies.
How did God change into Jesus if he has always been the same?
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