If you want to believe that you can fall away, more power to you. Your faith tells you you can, you probably will. I feel sorry for you; but I cannot keep arguing this matter. It keeps going around in circles.
Eternal Security
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gadar perets
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Indeed I was.
Romans 8
28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k]">[k] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Either this is true and we are eternally secure or the bible is worthless because it lies.
I was too tired last night.
Some wolves try to get us to believe that Jesus is not God.
You know about Arianism. It was rejected by the church.
I also am speaking about the Apostles and those whom they taught.
The Fathers I speak of did not speak English...so? WE do not speak Greek.
What's the difference?? It's the Greek that's important, not the English, as you know. And I do believe the ideas get through anyway so that it's not imperative to know the Hebrew or the Greek. I know you won't agree with this.
Have you read this? I'd need to read it again, but it's very interesting...
The Elohim: What (or Who) Are They? - LogosTalk
And here are what some Early Church Fathers thought about Jesus...
Ignatiius of Antioch studied with John the Apostle:
1. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 50–117): For our God, Jesus the Christ, was conceived by Mary according to God’s plan, both from the seed of David and of the Holy Spirit. (Ignatius, Letter to the Ephesians, 18.2. Translation from Michael Holmes, Apostolic Fathers, 197)
2. Ignatius (again): Consequently all magic and every kind of spell were dissolved, the ignorance so characteristic of wickedness vanished, and the ancient kingdom was abolished when God appeared in human form to bring the newness of eternal life. (Ibid., 19.3. Holmes, AF, 199)
3. Ignatius (again): For our God Jesus Christ is more visible now that he is in the Father. (Ignatius, Letter to the Romans, 3.3. Holmes, AF, 229)
4. Ignatius (again): I glorify Jesus Christ, the God who made you so wise, for I observed that you are established in an unshakable faith, having been nailed, as it were, to the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ. (Ignatius, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 1.1. Holmes, AF, 249)
5. Ignatius (again): Wait expectantly for the one who is above time: the Eternal, the Invisible, who for our sake became visible; the Intangible, the Unsuffering, who for our sake suffered, who for our sake endured in every way. (Ignatius, Letter to Polycarp, 3.2. Holmes, AF, 265)
also
9. Justin (again): Permit me first to recount the prophecies, which I wish to do in order to prove that Christ is called both God and Lord of hosts. (Ibid., 36. ANF, I:212)
10. Justin (again): Therefore these words testify explicitly that He [Jesus] is witnessed to by Him [the Father] who established these things, as deserving to be worshipped, as God and as Christ. (Ibid., 63. ANF, I:229)
11. Justin (again): The Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire and in the likeness of an angel to Moses and to the other prophets; but now in the times of your reign, having, as we before said, become Man by a virgin. (Justin Martyr, First Apology, 63. ANF, I:184)
So how would you explain the above?
Is Jesus one of those gods in the article?
Why are none of them ever mentioned?
( I mean, why is only JESUS mentioned by these early church fathers)
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I've read Romans 8 C,
I'm trying to find out what YOU think and you should post the verse you're speaking of when asked to...it's the courteous thing to do.
I'm not interested in the New Jerusalem,,,I know nothing, or close to nothing of eschatology....I believe you're saying that each one of us is predestined to be saved...is this correct? And that being the case, no one of us can ever lose this salvation...is this correct?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Why the sarcasm?
I don't even know you....I don't care that you had to go to bed.
Is this what the discussion was about?
Don't bother to reply to this.
Thanks.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
What is your problem? I did not give a more extensive answer because I had a long day and needed is some sleep.
I gave a longer answer today. Sorry you're unhappy I did not post on your schedule (actually not sorry).
bbyrd009
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ya, as long as you fight the devil he isn't going anywhere i guess
CoreIssue
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gadar perets
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I am not an Arian and it was a corrupted church that judged Arius.
A false teaching. The "elohim" of Psalm 82 are not "gods". The Psalm refers to the mighty men of Israel who were not walking justly. Yeshua quoted verse 6 in John 10:34, but in verse 35 he says, "If he called them [elohim], unto whom the word of [Elohim] came ...". The Word of Elohim did not come to "gods" or to "angels". It came to men, in particular the mighty men of Israel.
I do not accept those letters as authentic. Do some research on whether or not they are third century forgeries.
There are those that consider the philosopher Justin Martyr a "semi-gnostic heretic and an apostate". He also wrote well after Paul died and was therefore living at a time when wolves spared not the flock. I consider him a false teacher because he teaches that the "Lord of hosts" is the Son.
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gadar perets
Well-Known Member
There is a third option; that the verses are true, but that your interpretation of them is incorrect.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I have seen people try to explain their way around eternal security, but they couldn't.
It boiled down to people are eternally secure except from themselves.
If that was true that means more angels and saints New Jerusalem for the rebel and leave God and those in the lake of fire and brimstone could be saved.
When people die they have made their turn a choice of where they will be.
The rich man in hell did not as god for forgiveness for salvation. He expressed no change of heart on his part.
Nothing in all of creation includes self.
How do you explain it?
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Jeremiah 32:38-40 addresses the loophole in John 10:27-30 that a person can walk away from God and thus of his own accord leave the hand of the Lord, while he cannot be plucked from God's hand he could leave it of his own accord. I believe the passage referenced tells us that the fear of the LORD is a safeguard against such a thing.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
What loophole? None there.
It is talking about coming to God, not staying or leaving.
As well, until the baptism of the holy spirit, they could leave God.
gadar perets
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gadar perets
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CoreIssue
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