The Problem With The Trinity

[Taken]

Yes, you do need to do all that: otherwise you are confusing people into believing that they are somehow saved through keeping the law; which is unscriptural.

Disagree.

The Lord "DOES" the saving.
IOW it is by and through Christ the Lord All saved souls, have become saved.

However "WHO" becomes "saved" requires the individuals elections, choices.
And it is "individuals" who are informed "what" they can do (acceptable to God), to become saved.

Men in the OT did not call on the name of the Lord Jesus or confess Belief IN Him, to become saved.

Men in the OT revealed their belief and faithfulness TO God by and through obedience TO the Law.

Why is that NOT still acceptable to God for Jews today, who continue "under" the Law?

How did you determine that is "unscriptural"?

God Bless,
Taken

And therefore you would not be in the category of liar but would be classified more accurately as a deceiver in that by your preaching you subtly imply that we must be saved through keeping the law. This is another gospel, watch out (Galatians 1:6-9)!

It is not about "deception" or "we".

It is about, "individuals", and what God makes acceptable to Him for individuals.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

What does this have to do with whether or not we obey the dietary laws or any other laws in Torah? It is just as bad to feed our children swine's flesh as it is to avoid helping someone in need.

that is your opinion and you are certainly welcome to it gadar, if you read "no hands are dirty" where i read "no food is dirty," and as long as we are talking about your children and not mine. But tbh i get the exact opposite sense from Scripture, and i would say that the 2nd is way worse than the 1st wadr

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't see the contradiction.

i understand, but i'm not inclined to pursue this as sometimes on a forum contradictions are only perceived, being as we have limited means of expression here, and i don't think you are meaning to be judgemental really tbh, so much as trying to express the importance of your pov

 

[gadar perets]

that is your opinion and you are certainly welcome to it gadar, if you read "no hands are dirty" where i read "no food is dirty,"

Again you put words in my mouth for I NEVER said, "no hands are dirty". You obviously have not understood what I really teach about Mark 7.

 

[farouk]

Mark 7:19 - For it doesn't go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

1 Timothy 4:2-4 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,

Hi; there's also the passage with Peter's vision in Acts about declaring things clean...

 

[brakelite]

What if the lack of obedience is due to a lack of knowledge/understanding concerning the law? Before I started keeping the Sabbath I had no knowledge of the Sabbath. I wasn't failing to obey because my relationship with Yeshua was lacking. It was that very relationship that caused me to learn more and embrace the Sabbath.

Was it not Yeshua who revealed the Sabbath to you? Was it not your growing relationship with Him that brought you understanding? This it was your closer connection to the Vine that brought forth fruits of righteousness.

 

[gadar perets]

Was it not Yeshua who revealed the Sabbath to you? Was it not your growing relationship with Him that brought you understanding? This it was your closer connection to the Vine that brought forth fruits of righteousness.

Yes to both questions. That is my point. When I was disobedient, it wasn't because I didn't have a close relationship with Yeshua. It was because of my lack of knowledge. He then educated me concerning the Sabbath.

 

[gadar perets]

Hi; there's also the passage with Peter's vision in Acts about declaring things clean...

Those three misunderstood passages have been clearly addressed by me in this thread. I suggest you go back and read them.

 

[justbyfaith]

"For God so loved the world that He gave Himself, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life" IS another gospel, watch out. Teaching people to not sin by obeying the law out of love for our Creator is not another gospel.

My rendition of John 3:16 is that He gave His only begotten Son, in light of Isaiah 9:6.

It is another gospel to teach (or imply) that we are in any way justified by the law; therefore any time you would emphasize obedience to the law, it is very important that you also emphasize the fact that we are not justified through law-keeping but that doing right is the evidence of being saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

 

[justbyfaith]

Disagree.

The Lord "DOES" the saving.
IOW it is by and through Christ the Lord All saved souls, have become saved.

However "WHO" becomes "saved" requires the individuals elections, choices.
And it is "individuals" who are informed "what" they can do (acceptable to God), to become saved.

Men in the OT did not call on the name of the Lord Jesus or confess Belief IN Him, to become saved.

Men in the OT revealed their belief and faithfulness TO God by and through obedience TO the Law.

Why is that NOT still acceptable to God for Jews today, who continue "under" the Law?

How did you determine that is "unscriptural"?

God Bless,
Taken

In the Old Testament, people were justified by faith, just like in the New (see, for example, Genesis 15:6).

It is unscriptural to say that anyone is justified by the law, because of Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20, and quite a few other verses.

 

[gadar perets]

It is another gospel to teach (or imply) that we are in any way justified by the law; therefore any time you would emphasize obedience to the law, it is very important that you also emphasize the fact that we are not justified through law-keeping but that doing right is the evidence of being saved through faith in Jesus Christ alone.

Therefore, all you readers of this thread, do right by obeying the Sabbath, Feasts and dietary laws as evidence of being saved through faith in Messiah Yeshua alone and not out of a desire to be justified by keeping those laws. Amein.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Does "Thou shalt not commit adultery" and "Thou shalt not kill/murder" apply to you or is it OK to break the letter of those laws because you somehow keep the spirit of them?


Why is sodomy a sin if there is no longer a letter of the law saying it is wrong? How can one repent of sodomy (sin) if they have been taught the letter of the law against sodomy has been done away with?

Well it's still the Law and it's still wrong and the letter of the Law has not gone away at all.
Christians do not kill people for Sins under Grace, but they must repent of such sins or they should be banished from the Kingdom of God.
So one who is into Sodomy or murder is banished for ever, because such is a grave Sin.

The thing is that the person who wallows in such Sin is guilty and can not come into the Kingdom of God anyway.

With Grace one can be a human and understand that one in not to be treated as a object or material possession to be discarded.
There are reasons why people run into sin like we seen in one woman who was enslaved to prostitution, it was not her will to be one but had no option, she came to Christ, but under the Law she would be killed regardless, just as Jesus was killed because the letter of the Law was as such. it does not matter because you have to prove you are inosent and they do not have to bother to listen to the point at all, Such is truly Sub human for sure ! because it lacks Grace.
So when asking if Jesus was God, truth is he was Emmanuel God with us, but they know not God anyway, because they only knew the Letter of the Law.
The Letter of the Law was to bring us to the point that Jesus came and then gave Grace into the Law.
Jesus was a innocent man and had did no wrong at all, but the Letter of the law condemned him, because the Law was not filled with Grace.
In Christ Grace we are not just a number to be dealt with like cattle lead to the slaughter as the Jews Law was, being only just slaves to a system like that of a computer.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

We have idiots even nowadays who would see one or more come to some disaster, say a bridge come crashing down and people in need of help and they would just say, Oh bad karma bad karma and walk off without a care in the world, or like the stupid Jews who had a donkey stuck in a hole or maybe their grand mother, Oh we can not help out today because of some nonsense Law that has no Humanity in it.

Jesus gave us them two Laws that trump all the rest and it's this that finished the Law off, made it complete, it was not finished off before that and without them two Laws, above all abiding in it's dead, now it's alive as Jesus gave life to them.
If one is abiding in the old Letter of the Law now, such a one is truly just a moronic fool.

The Law is still there but it has changed, made New in our Christ Salvation and the Letter of the Law is dusted.

 

[justbyfaith]

Therefore, all you readers of this thread, do right by obeying the Sabbath, Feasts and dietary laws as evidence of being saved through faith in Messiah Yeshua alone and not out of a desire to be justified by keeping those laws. Amein.

And realize also, that failing to keep the letter of the law will not be to your condemnation if your whole trust is in what Christ did for you on the Cross!

If you are motivated by love for God and neighbor to obey the Sabbath, Feasts, and dietary laws; knowing that you are saved apart from obedience to them; then by all means do as the Spirit leads.

But if you are in any way depending on your obedience to these laws as being your salvation, then think again: because your focus is all wrong and you have stumbled at that stumblingstone (spoken of in Romans 9:30-33, Romans 10:1-4).

The law is competing for your attention as the means of salvation in some of your minds. We must understand fully that obedience to the law is not salvational. It is the result of being saved.

Do we then seek to obey the law in order to prove to ourselves that we are saved? Do we obey the law because it is the evidence of salvation and therefore we say, if I obey the law then that proves that I am saved?

No. Our only salvation is through faith in Jesus; in being forgiven through His shed blood.

If I am going to be justified through law-keeping/works/obedience, then I must obey the law perfectly from the moment of conception to the moment of death and beyond, into all of eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48, Matthew 5:18).

The more you strive to obtain salvation through keeping the law, the more you should realize that you are a failure at doing so. If you don't have this realization, you are not being honest with yourself; and you are also not listening to the Holy Spirit at all.

 

[gadar perets]

Well it's still the Law and it's still wrong and the letter of the Law has not gone away at all.

I agree.

There are reasons why people run into sin like we seen in one woman who was enslaved to prostitution, it was not her will to be one but had no option, she came to Christ, but under the Law she would be killed regardless, just as Jesus was killed because the letter of the Law was as such. it does not matter because you have to prove you are inosent and they do not have to bother to listen to the point at all, Such is truly Sub human for sure ! because it lacks Grace.

Two witnesses were needed to put the woman and the man to death.

So when asking if Jesus was God, truth is he was Emmanuel God with us, but they know not God anyway, because they only knew the Letter of the Law.

Bearing the name "Emmanuel" does not mean Yeshua was God. It means God was "with us" because God was with him. God was IN Messiah reconciling the world to Himself. He was not Messiah, but Messiah's Father.

Jesus was a innocent man and had did no wrong at all, but the Letter of the law condemned him, because the Law was not filled with Grace.

Are you referring to him being condemned to death AFTER taking our sins upon himself? He certainly was not condemned by the law before that.

 

[gadar perets]

We have idiots even nowadays who would see one or more come to some disaster, say a bridge come crashing down and people in need of help and they would just say, Oh bad karma bad karma and walk off without a care in the world, or like the stupid Jews who had a donkey stuck in a hole or maybe their grand mother, Oh we can not help out today because of some nonsense Law that has no Humanity in it.

You must be referring to man made "Law" because YHWH's Law is full of humanity.

Jesus gave us them two Laws that trump all the rest and it's this that finished the Law off, made it complete, it was not finished off before that and without them two Laws, above all abiding in it's dead, now it's alive as Jesus gave life to them.

The two do not "trump" the rest. The rest will be fulfilled when the two are kept. However, when one breaks the Sabbath, for example, he does not fulfill the two. He breaks them both.

 

[gadar perets]

And realize also, that failing to keep the letter of the law will not be to your condemnation if your whole trust is in what Christ did for you on the Cross!

If you are motivated by love for God and neighbor to obey the Sabbath, Feasts, and dietary laws; knowing that you are saved apart from obedience to them; then by all means do as the Spirit leads.

But if you are in any way depending on your obedience to these laws as being your salvation, then think again: because your focus is all wrong and you have stumbled at that stumblingstone (spoken of in Romans 9:30-33, Romans 10:1-4).

The law is competing for your attention as the means of salvation in some of your minds. We must understand fully that obedience to the law is not salvational. It is the result of being saved.

Do we then seek to obey the law in order to prove to ourselves that we are saved? Do we obey the law because it is the evidence of salvation and therefore we say, if I obey the law then that proves that I am saved?

No. Our only salvation is through faith in Jesus; in being forgiven through His shed blood.

If I am going to be justified through law-keeping/works/obedience, then I must obey the law perfectly from the moment of conception to the moment of death and beyond, into all of eternity (Galatians 3:10, James 2:10, Matthew 5:48, Matthew 5:18).

The more you strive to obtain salvation through keeping the law, the more you should realize that you are a failure at doing so. If you don't have this realization, you are not being honest with yourself; and you are also not listening to the Holy Spirit at all.

I agree. Therefore, let's live the rest of our lives obeying YHWH's commandments out of love for Him. Let's not try to prove the Sabbaths, Feasts and dietary laws no longer exist. Let's obey them for the right reasons.

 

[bbyrd009]

Our flesh is at war with the Spirit. Sometimes the flesh wins a battle. If a believer, for example, is incredibly lonely and meets a beautiful married woman who is having marital problems and who comes on to him, he may, through a weakness of the flesh, yield to her charms and not only lust for her in his heart, but actually commit adultery. Not only did he break the magnified law as Yeshua said, but he also broke the letter of the law. The law is not made for a righteous man, but if that righteous man walks in the flesh momentarily and commits adultery, the law takes effect and points out his sin. He then goes to YHWH to ask for forgiveness through Yeshua's shed blood.

there is no asking for forgiveness in Scripture either gadar
don't be asking for forgiveness

 

[bbyrd009]

Again you put words in my mouth for I NEVER said, "no hands are dirty". You obviously have not understood what I really teach about Mark 7.

that was strictly meant to be an ID phrase gadar, i mean after all 'what you teach' is more or less standard issue rabbi, right. And i don't have a prob with it honest, but you also might do yourself a solid and go figure out what "swine-eaters" are symbolically. They aren't quite the same as those who seethe kids in mother's milk, fwiw. Does God care about oxen gadar?

 

[bbyrd009]

He certainly was not condemned by the law before that.

lol