gadar perets
Well-Known Member
My question was specifically for Jun2u. I already know your twisted view of those verses.
The Problem With The Trinity
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gadar perets
Well-Known Member
The two greatest commandments are not found in the Decalogue. We must obey far more than just the Decalogue.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Mat 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mat 22:37 Yeshua said unto him, Thou shalt love [YHWH] thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The first is from Deuteronomy 6:5 and the second from Leviticus 19:18. Neither are among the Decalogue (Ten Commandments) and both are Old Covenant laws of Moses carried over into the New Covenant along with the Decalogue (all ten including the Sabbath) and many other laws. So if someone ever tells you the law is abolished or the Law of Moses is abolished, ask them why those laws are not abolished.Mat 22:37 Yeshua said unto him, Thou shalt love [YHWH] thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
The law governs us from the inside but does not condemn us from the outside.
In this sense the law has been abolished/blotted out/done away with. We are forgiven and there can be no condemnation for us. This is forgiveness.
The law governs us from the inside as believers. This is the result of regeneration.
Forgiveness is based solely on what Jesus did for us on the Cross and has nothing to do with our works, whether of the law or otherwise.
In this sense the law has been abolished/blotted out/done away with. We are forgiven and there can be no condemnation for us. This is forgiveness.
The law governs us from the inside as believers. This is the result of regeneration.
Forgiveness is based solely on what Jesus did for us on the Cross and has nothing to do with our works, whether of the law or otherwise.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Does it really? Why is it that the word "nomikos" was used 9 times in the NT and only once translated "law" in this verse? The other 8 times it was translated "lawyer". "Nomos" is the Greek word translated "law" throughout the NT. Why is it that the word "nomikos" is plural, but the KJV translates it "the law"? Why does the KJV add "the" when it is not found in the Greek? Could it be because anti-nomian Christian translators don't want believers to discuss the law. You fell for their bogus translation just like many others have.
I offer the following translation;
Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings of lawyers; for they are unprofitable and vain.
Paul was referring to the Jewish lawyers who would argue over the most minuscule points of the law and add in their own man made laws which are compiled in the Talmud. He was not saying serious discussion of the law in order to know the will of the law giver is forbidden.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
You just got done admonishing everyone to not argue about the law and hear you are doing it again!?
I agree with everything you wrote except the second and third sentences. The law is not "abolished/blotted out/done away with". Just because laws like the Ten Commandments are no longer on stone, but are now written internally on our hearts and minds does not mean they are "abolished/blotted out/done away with". They simply exist in a different form/location.
As for condemnation, there IS condemnation for those that walk after the flesh rather than the Spirit (Romans 8:1).
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
I don’t believe I can satisfy to provide you with just a verse. Why even the scholars write a volume when they exegesis a verse. But I will not bore you with many verses why I believe you are unsaved. I will only comment on the statements you’ve declared above.
My only desire is to turn you around from the error of your beliefs.
1) You said: I have received Messiah Yeshua as my Lord and Saviour over 32 ago.
My response:
Sorry to say, already at this point, you have no inkling at all of what is the concept and nature of Salvation. You can shout every day for the rest of your life that you have received Jesus as Messiah and it will NEVER bring you closer one iota closer to God. There is ONLY ONE WAY to become saved and that is the Father must draw you (John 6:44).
2) I keep his commandments as best I can and live my life in accordance with his will and his Father's will.
My response:
That’s all good and well, but God knows we cannot keep His commandments perfectly, now what? Is He going to send us to hell when we die? Of course not! Remember, when Jesus saves an individual He redeems ALL of his sins, so there no sin he can commit that will threaten him with hell.
You are very adamant to keep the law and there is a command for all the males to go to Jerusalem three times a year, do you?
3) I was baptized in his true name. What am I lacking?
My response:
I was reminded of the rich young ruler when he asked Jesus the same question you asked, “What am I Iacking?” The story goes he went away because he was rich.
Are you saying that you are correct to say you were baptized in His true name, namely Jesus Christ as per Acts 2:38?
In Acts 2 Peter baptized in the name of Jesus, however in Matthew 28:19 the believers are to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. Is there a discrepancy here? Not at all.
For example, here is an official, let’s say of the U.S.A. and goes to another country to represent his country, he is said to be an Ambassador of his country, therefore he has the authority to speak in the name of his country.
Likewise, when Peter baptized Cornelius he baptized Cornelius in the name of Jesus. While in Matthew 28 the formula for the churches of the world today is to baptize in the name of the Trinity, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
You began with a false premise these last 32 years by believing there is no three distinct persons subsiding in the Godhead yet the Bible is replete with verses which declare there are three persons in the Godhead.
When the Lord Jesus said, “The Father is greater than me” or “The Father sent me” and so forth, He was speaking as a human although He never ceased to be God….He nor Scripture is not saying He is not God!!! Nowhere can this statement be found in the Bible. At least not that I know of, can you find a verse which claims Jesus is NOT God? Even the devils believe who Jesus is.
To God Be The Glory
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
It is just as I suspected. You could not provide a verse that shows me to be unsaved. You suspect the Father did not draw me, yet I received Yeshua as my Saviour and was baptized in his name. I even had hands laid on me to receive the Holy Spirit. Yet you imply the Father did not draw me. Wishful thinking.
When I say I was baptized in the Saviour's true name, I meant the name "Yeshua" as opposed to "Jesus" which was only recently invented by man. BTW, I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit when I first received "Jesus". I was later rebaptized when I found out his name is not "Jesus".
Actually, I was a trinitarian for the first year or so after I received Yeshua. Then the Holy Spirit began to teach me the errors of the trinity doctrine until I finally abandoned it to the glory of YHWH.
As for finding a verse that says, "Jesus is NOT God", no I cannot because all English Bibles use the word "God" in reference to the Son. Since Yeshua himself said his Father is the "ONLY TRUE GOD", he excluded himself from that position. Therefore, any verse that uses the word "God" in reference to the Son (Hebrews 1:8; Psalm 45:6) is incorrectly translated for only the Father can bear the title "God" with a capital "G". All others are lesser "elohim".
BTW, even if the trinity is true, there is no verse saying if a person does not believe the trinity, he is unsaved.
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
My question was specifically for Jun2u. I already know your twisted view of those verses.
I had no idea this post was addressed to me, I apologize.
I don’t know what question was asked, but according to the Scripture verses you’ve referenced, yes Jesus is the Great I AM both in the Old and New Testaments, and therefore He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The whole chapter of John 18 deals with the term “I AM.” In fact, to drive home this point, we read in John 18:6, “As soon then as he had said unto them I AM, they went backward and fell to the ground.”
Note that I omitted the word he because the printer is warning the reader that any time we see a word italicized in the KJV, it means it is not in the original manuscript.
To God Be The Glory
I had no idea this post was addressed to me, I apologize.
I don’t know what question was asked, but according to the Scripture verses you’ve referenced, yes Jesus is the Great I AM both in the Old and New Testaments, and therefore He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The whole chapter of John 18 deals with the term “I AM.” In fact, to drive home this point, we read in John 18:6, “As soon then as he had said unto them I AM, they went backward and fell to the ground.”
Note that I omitted the word he because the printer is warning the reader that any time we see a word italicized in the KJV, it means it is not in the original manuscript.
To God Be The Glory
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Most certainly it does! And, The Trinity is true!
Galatians 1:8-9 reads:
8) But though we or any other angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you than that which we preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9) As we said before, so say I now agaian, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed
To God Be The Glory
I do not agree that it is impossible to be saved not understanding the trinity. I was given the Holy Spirit and after that, became upset with God, thinking He could have found a better way than to make my Lord suffer so horribly. I told Jesus i would talk to Him but that I didn't want to talk to God because I did not like Him much.
I wish I had a video recording of my face when I was reading one day and discovered that the Son born to us would be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father. I really wish I could see what my face looked like when it was shown to me!
So my point is that I had received the Spirit before I knew that Jesus was God. And a man does not receive the Spirit except by faith in Christ.
Additionally, we cannot say that a man is not saved, without the Spirit, simply because he has some error...or we would be condemning our own selves too, as we are not without error and misunderstandings either, as our mind is being renewed daily!
I wish I had a video recording of my face when I was reading one day and discovered that the Son born to us would be called Mighty God, Everlasting Father. I really wish I could see what my face looked like when it was shown to me!
So my point is that I had received the Spirit before I knew that Jesus was God. And a man does not receive the Spirit except by faith in Christ.
Additionally, we cannot say that a man is not saved, without the Spirit, simply because he has some error...or we would be condemning our own selves too, as we are not without error and misunderstandings either, as our mind is being renewed daily!
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
You already attempted to answer my question in your post The Problem With The Trinity
As for Yeshua being the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the I AM of Exodus 3 said,
Exo 3:6 Moreover He said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
Exo 3:15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.
Exo 3:16 Go, and gather the elders of Israel together, and say unto them, YHWH God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Jacob, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Egypt:
So YHWH, the great I AM, gave Moses a triple witness of who He is. Peter confirmed this in Acts 3:13;
Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Yeshua; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.
By these four verses we learn (among other things) 1) That YHWH is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 2) that YHWH is the great I AM 3) that Yeshua is the Son of that same God, the Son of YHWH, the Son of the great I AM 3) that that same God did not become the Son 4) that Yeshua is not YHWH and 5) that Yeshua is NOT the great I AM.
When the chief priests and Pharisees said they were seeking Yeshua of Nazareth, Yeshua said to them, "Ego eimi." At that they fell backward to the ground (John 18:6). They were startled that the man they were looking for was right in front of them. What followed will make it clear that Yeshua was not claiming to be the "I AM."
After Yeshua's arrest, the Jews took him to Annas first (vs.13). Then they took him to Caiaphas (vs.24) and eventually to Pilate (vss. 28,29). A parallel account is found in Matthew 26:57-68. Notice, in particular, verse 59. The same men that had fallen backward to the ground were in attendance when the council sought false witnesses against Yeshua to put him to death. Verse 60 says they couldn't find any. Eventually two came forward. Interestingly, they didn't bear false witness about what Yeshua said in John 8:58, but about his reference to destroying the temple and building it again in three days. Where were all those witnesses from John 8:58?
The point about Matthew 26 is, why would false witnesses be sought if they had true witnesses in attendance? The arresting officers heard Yeshua say "Ego eimi." They could have stoned him right there in the garden for blasphemy, but they didn't. They could have reported the supposed blasphemy to the council, but they didn't. Why not? Because it wasn't blasphemy, nor was it an offense worthy of stoning. He was merely identifying himself as Yeshua of Nazareth. The blind man of John 9:9 replied the same way. He identified himself by saying, "Ego eimi".
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
You are just like several others on this thread who read whatever they want into the text. This passage says NOTHING about the trinity. The gospel Paul preached says NOTHING about the trinity either.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Paul did NOT say;1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Messiah died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that God died for our sins according to the scriptures;
John's gospel is summarized in John 3:16;
For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John's gospel is NOT;
For God so loved the world, that He gave Himself, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
I liked the rest of your post, but not this paragraph. What you were shown was a poor English translation of a Hebrew text. The Hebrew text correctly translates as "mighty warrior" or "mighty el" and "father of eternity". The only true "Mighty God" is the one who gave us the Son of Isaiah 9:6. The one who gave the Son is called "YHWH of hosts" in verse 7. He alone is the "only true God" (John 17:3).
Good morning gadar. You have made me laugh very hard while I am still so terribly sore from the car accident! Don't get mad at me I couldn't help it. I wasnt trying to laugh. I am sorry you don't like that paragraph. 
Now might be a good time for epi to wander in. He knows a lot about the original Hebrew. Not that you or I have to like his paragraph.:)
Now might be a good time for epi to wander in. He knows a lot about the original Hebrew. Not that you or I have to like his paragraph.:)
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And hey, gadar, you asked: even if the trinity were true and you didn't believe it, would it mean you weren't saved?
I ask the reverse: even if the trinity weren't true but you believed it, would it mean you werent, or coulnt, he saved? ;)
I ask the reverse: even if the trinity weren't true but you believed it, would it mean you werent, or coulnt, he saved? ;)
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
Not at all. It simply means you are committing idolatry and need to repent.
gadar perets
Well-Known Member
I thought you said you were not in the car.Good morning gadar. You have made me laugh very hard while I am still so terribly sore from the car accident! Don't get mad at me I couldn't help it. I wasnt trying to laugh. I am sorry you don't like that paragraph.
I wasn't in the car for her second crash. I was front and center for the first one. I took the brunt of it because of her swerve! But I think she did the right thing probably, because I'm imagining a head on crash at 55 mph is probably worse than a more sideways crash....
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