Eternal Security

[gadar perets]

I'll let him address this question. I've never heard Messianics of accusing Christians of bestiality either. Otherwise, he seems nice.

Please quote me where I accused Christians of bestiality.

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you read this?

Rom. 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.​

Your bold was incomplete. Paul was not saying the law came to an end through Messiah. He meant seeking to be made righteous through the law has come to an end. That is what the Jews were doing. My righteousness comes through Yeshua. My obedience to the law is a fruit of my salvation.


No, I'm not frustrating grace. I'm frustrating you because your sins are being exposed. Grace is frustrated when we seek to be justified by the law. Grace is complemented when we obey the law out of love for YHWH and our neighbors.

YHWH has ordained that we walk in good works (Ephesians 2:10).


No, that is not what I think. That is what you implied I think. We are to "go and sin no more" through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, we are to go and stop breaking the law through the power of the Holy Spirit.


That is your opinion so that you can justify your own sins. By declaring me to be walking in the flesh, you make it appear as though you are walking in the Spirit. Is the Spirit causing you to obey YHWH's commandments as Ezekiel said? Is the Spirit causing you to be subject to the law as Paul said? If not, then it is you who are walking in the flesh concerning the Sabbath.


AAAH! So the truth comes out. Since you do not work hard in this world, you see no need for the Sabbath. I do work hard and I can't wait for the Sabbath.

Good post!

 

[Jun2u]

Of course there is free will. It is limited to the choices we are presented. We choose God every day...or not.

Yes, we have the free will to do the choices we face every day in life, but the will of a child of God is to do God's will.

We are fully responsible for the lives we lead.

Perhaps to you, but a child of God can boldly go to the throne of grace and ask for forgiveness and God will abundantly pardon.

Otherwise there would be no judgment after this life.

There IS no judgment for a child of God for all of his sins have been forgiven and nailed on the cross.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Episkopos]

Well E, I meant it sincerely.
We had a discussion of covenants another time and you seemed not to know much about them even back then. Even back then I politely said you should study up.
I guess you didn't or you'd know that the NEW COVENANT has NO CONDITIONS.
It's an UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT.

It seems you don't know what that means. Again, I can only repeat that it would be really helpful for you to know, at least, the 5 or 6 more important covenants.
Really.

Then you could stop making comments that are incorrect and saying I'm proudful because I KNOW the NEW COVENANT is UNCONDITIONAL.

Blessings.

You have much pride as you think by bolding words it makes them more true. Show in the bible where you get this idea from. Look at all the "ifs" in the NT. The "IF's" show it's conditional.

 

[Episkopos]

Yes, we have the free will to do the choices we face every day in life, but the will of a child of God is to do God's will.



Perhaps to you, but a child of God can boldly go to the throne of grace and ask for forgiveness and God will abundantly pardon.



There IS no judgment for a child of God for all of his sins have been forgiven and nailed on the cross.

To God Be The Glory

This is far from the truth.

Judgment begins at the house of God.

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos

BTW, you won't be able to study the covenants from the bible.
It's kind of like trying to study the Trinity by reading Mathew 28:20.

Again I leave you to your very stubborn and misguided opinions.

 

[GodsGrace]

You have much pride as you think by bolding words it makes them more true. Show in the bible where you get this idea from. Look at all the "ifs" in the NT. The "IF's" show it's conditional.

Please post something that states the New Covenant is conditional.
I bold words for emphasis. I always do this.
Thanks.

 

[Jun2u]

Indeed. Scripture cannot refute scripture; although I don't understand what John 6:44 has to do with our discussion. If YOU believe only God can DRAW those that will be saved to Himself, then what is the use of the publican crying out "have mercy on me a sinner"?

John 6:44 indeed has everything to do with our discussion. Without the drawing or prodding of God the publican will NEVER have cried out: “have mercy on this sinner!” This is the reason God manifested Himself to become man (second Adam) to undo the work of Satan, and to go to the cross to free man of sins.

If God does not intervene in the lives of mankind, all will end up in hell, no exceptions! But in His love, mercy, and grace, still He wanted to have a miserable group of people who are by nature sinners, but as I’ve already stated, God had to pay a tremendous price by sending His only Son to die on the cross. What an Awesome God!!!.

With this type of love, mercy, grace and sacrifice, don’t you think He is sovereign to save those He wishes to elect to salvation before the foundation of the world, and also seen in the story of Jacob and Esau?

If YOU are correct, God HAS NO MERCY. HE will choose who goes to heaven and HE will choose who goes to hell. How does a God who chooses those that will be saved based on nothing have any mercy?? Why cry out to Him?

Based on nothing??? Why cry out to Him??? What an audacity thing to say!!! You show no respect for the God who created you, loved you, and saved you (if you are His at all! FYI, there is no Scripture that stipulates God chooses people to go to hell. Man go to hell because they are sinners....The wages of sin is death! The unsaved go to hell because of their sins and NOT because they were chosen to stand for the fires of hell.

First you said "there is none that seeks after God".

Firstly, let’s get it straight. I didn’t say I said it. Secondly, it was God who said it. Big
difference.

THEN you said: "To cry out loud like the publican said is the only way one can seek after God IF GOD IS DRAWING HIM."

Without the drawing of God and I repeat, without the drawing of God IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO BECOME SAVED!

Why cry at all if anyway GOD is going to save the publican no matter what?

Not quite at all. Mankind is headed for the slaughter house. The principle thing to do then is to cry out for mercy!

For example...

Here is a king who sent out an edict (any edict). His subjects did not agree and rebelled. Guess what? The king put the whole lot in the dungeon to await the guillotine. Soon after, he hears cries of “mercy, have mercy O king!

The king with great love and compassion for his subjects went to the dungeon and started to choose a person here and another there, and after selecting a few told the guards to set free the few.

In this example, think of the king as portraying God and the rebels as sinners!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Episkopos]

Have you read this?

Rom. 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.​

Your bold was incomplete. Paul was not saying the law came to an end through Messiah. He meant seeking to be made righteous through the law has come to an end. That is what the Jews were doing. My righteousness comes through Yeshua. My obedience to the law is a fruit of my salvation.


No, I'm not frustrating grace. I'm frustrating you because your sins are being exposed. Grace is frustrated when we seek to be justified by the law. Grace is complemented when we obey the law out of love for YHWH and our neighbors.

YHWH has ordained that we walk in good works (Ephesians 2:10).


No, that is not what I think. That is what you implied I think. We are to "go and sin no more" through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, we are to go and stop breaking the law through the power of the Holy Spirit.


That is your opinion so that you can justify your own sins. By declaring me to be walking in the flesh, you make it appear as though you are walking in the Spirit. Is the Spirit causing you to obey YHWH's commandments as Ezekiel said? Is the Spirit causing you to be subject to the law as Paul said? If not, then it is you who are walking in the flesh concerning the Sabbath.


AAAH! So the truth comes out. Since you do not work hard in this world, you see no need for the Sabbath. I do work hard and I can't wait for the Sabbath.

I wish you would give us all here some rest with your twisting thoughts.

 

[Episkopos]

Please post something that states the New Covenant is conditional.
I bold words for emphasis. I always do this.
Thanks.

Look for "IF's." In the English language an "IF" is a conditional proposal that includes conditions.

Jesus said: "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
Matthew 6:14-15

Jesus said: "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 17:20

Jesus said: "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Matthew 21:22

Jesus said: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."
Luke 17:6

Jesus said: "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
John 8:31

Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
John 8:51

Jesus said: "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
John 11:40

Jesus said: "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35

Jesus said: "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:15

Jesus said: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you."
John 15:6-7

Jesus said: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."
John 15:10

Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do what I command."
John 15:14

"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
Romans 8:31

"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9

"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Corinthians 15:2

"If anyone does not love the Lord – a curse be on him."
1 Corinthians 16:22

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
2 Corinthians 5:17

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19



Now show me where your fantasy about unconditional salvation is found. Where is the New Covenant shown to be unconditional?

 

[GodsGrace]

John 6:44 indeed has everything to do with our discussion. Without the drawing or prodding of God the publican will NEVER have cried out: “have mercy on this sinner!” This is the reason God manifested Himself to become man (second Adam) to undo the work of Satan, and to go to the cross to free man of sins.

If God does not intervene in the lives of mankind, all will end up in hell, no exceptions! But in His love, mercy, and grace, still He wanted to have a miserable group of people who are by nature sinners, but as I’ve already stated, God had to pay a tremendous price by sending His only Son to die on the cross. What an Awesome God!!!.

With this type of love, mercy, grace and sacrifice, don’t you think He is sovereign to save those He wishes to elect to salvation before the foundation of the world, and also seen in the story of Jacob and Esau?



Based on nothing??? Why cry out to Him??? What an audacity thing to say!!! You show no respect for the God who created you, loved you, and saved you (if you are His at all! FYI, there is no Scripture that stipulates God chooses people to go to hell. Man go to hell because they are sinners....The wages of sin is death! The unsaved go to hell because of their sins and NOT because they were chosen to stand for the fires of hell.



Firstly, let’s get it straight. I didn’t say I said it. Secondly, it was God who said it. Big
difference.



Without the drawing of God and I repeat, without the drawing of God IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR ANYONE TO BECOME SAVED!



Not quite at all. Mankind is headed for the slaughter house. The principle thing to do then is to cry out for mercy!

For example...

Here is a king who sent out an edict (any edict). His subjects did not agree and rebelled. Guess what? The king put the whole lot in the dungeon to await the guillotine. Soon after, he hears cries of “mercy, have mercy O king!

The king with great love and compassion for his subjects went to the dungeon and started to choose a person here and another there, and after selecting a few told the guards to set free the few.

In this example, think of the king as portraying God and the rebels as sinners!

To God Be The Glory

J
Can't reply,,,I need my computer.
Only this. Yes, God is Almighty and soveriegn but He is also loving, merciful and just.
Just means that He gives to us the opportunity to be saved and this love, mercy and justice does not take away from His sovereignty.

You do not have to choose between His attributes...God is everything.

 

[GodsGrace]

Look for "IF's." In the English language an "IF" is a conditional proposal that includes conditions.

Jesus said: "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."
Matthew 6:14-15

Jesus said: "Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."
Matthew 17:20

Jesus said: "If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."
Matthew 21:22

Jesus said: "If you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it will obey you."
Luke 17:6

Jesus said: "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples."
John 8:31

Jesus said: "I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."
John 8:51

Jesus said: "Did I not tell you that if you believed, you would see the glory of God?"
John 11:40

Jesus said: "By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
John 13:35

Jesus said: "If you love me, you will obey what I command."
John 14:15

Jesus said: "If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you."
John 15:6-7

Jesus said: "If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love."
John 15:10

Jesus said: "You are my friends if you do what I command."
John 15:14

"If God is for us, who can be against us?"
Romans 8:31

"...if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord', and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Romans 10:9

"By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain."
1 Corinthians 15:2

"If anyone does not love the Lord – a curse be on him."
1 Corinthians 16:22

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"
2 Corinthians 5:17

"I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
Revelation 22:18-19



Now show me where your fantasy about unconditional salvation is found. Where is the New Covenant shown to be unconditional?

OK E
I think you don't know what a covenant is...
What is a covenant?

 

[Jun2u]

This is far from the truth.

Judgment begins at the house of God.

I agree but you spoke of judgment after life but i Peter 4:17 is happening now!

 

[Episkopos]

OK E
I think you don't know what a covenant is...
What is a covenant?

You need to look up the word "if".


A Covenant: An agreement between 2 parties. A contract. A marriage is a covenant. A peace treaty is a covenant.


cov·e·nant
ˈkəvənənt/
noun
noun: covenant; plural noun: covenants
1.
an agreement.
synonyms: contract, agreement, undertaking, commitment, guarantee, warrant, pledge, promise, bond, indenture
(Theology)
an agreement that brings about a relationship of commitment between God and his people. The Jewish faith is based on the biblical covenants made with Abraham, Moses, and David

How can 2 walk together except they be agreed?

 

[Episkopos]

I agree but you spoke of judgment after life!

This is semantics. We will all appear before a tribunal...either the Bema or the GWT...to receive for what we have done. After this life.

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to look up the word "if".


A Covenant: An agreement between 2 parties. A contract. A marriage is a covenant. A peace treaty is a covenant.


cov·e·nant
ˈkəvənənt/
noun
noun: covenant; plural noun: covenants
1.
an agreement.
synonyms: contract, agreement, undertaking, commitment, guarantee, warrant, pledge, promise, bond, indenture
(Theology)
an agreement that brings about a relationship of commitment between God and his people. The Jewish faith is based on the biblical covenants made with Abraham, Moses, and David

How can 2 walk together except they be agreed?

OK
Now post something from the internet that shows me if the Mosaic Covenant is conditional or Unconditional.

 

[Stranger]

I do not sacrifice animals. Nor do I live under the OC. As I asked you twice already with no answer from you; Are you going back to the law by obeying the two greatest commandments and nine of the Ten Commandments??? Answer please. Neither am I going back to the law simply because I obey the Sabbath command.


"Not under the law" means we are not under its condemnation. It does NOT mean we don't have to obey it. To disobey the law is to sin (1 John 3:4).


The Almighty arranged to have a man die in my arms as I tried to give him CPR. I did not want to die as he did before receiving "Jesus" as my Saviour. I gave my life to him 33 years ago. How about you?


The deception that the law has been abolished and we need not obey the commandments anymore.

No I am not going back to the Law. I do not try and obey the Ten Commandments. I try to walk in the Spirit as a Christian.

If you feel you have to obey the Law, then you are under the Law. Of course to disobey the Law is sin. But sin now is more than disobeying the Law. Anything you do that is not of faith is sin, whether you find it in the Law or not.

You received Jesus Christ as your Saviour. That means you are Christian. I received Jesus Christ as my Saviour also, which means I am Christian.
So, who told you that you are not Christian or what made you turn away from Christianity? Because whether you like it or not, you are Christian.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I am not a Messianic Jew or a Messianic Israelite. Both groups are trinitarian and follow man's laws. When forced to label myself, I call myself a Messianic Hebrew. I do not know if I have Jewish blood in me. All that matters to me is that I am Yeshua's. Since I am of the seed of Abraham through Messiah, and since he was a Hebrew, then I am a Hebrew as well and a Messianic one at that.

Well, by your definition every Christian is a Messianic Hebrew. Your problem is you reject the Trinity.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I was kicked out of one Christian church because I kept the Sabbath. I was told by another church that I could not be a Christian because I reject the trinity. I was told by a third church that I will be lost if I do not return to the mother church. If Christianity doesn't want me, so be it. I know Yeshua wants me and that is all that matters. Christianity is NOT the door to the Kingdom of Heaven, Yeshua is.

Well, cry me a river. Who hasn't had bad experiences in the Church. Your problem goes deeper than that. You don't want to call yourself Christian, yet there is no other term one can be called who has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. You want to keep the Sabbath and reject the Trinity and not be called Christian. Foolish.

What do you mean Christianity is not the door to the Kingdom. Once you come to Christ, you are part of Christianity. If you refuse to identify with Christians then you refuse to identify with the Saviour Jesus Christ.

Stranger

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What do you mean by the sacrifices?

Burnt offerings