Eternal Security

[Episkopos]

"gadar perets, post: 435955, member: 7741"]Yes, we are holy though Yeshua. As such, we are expected to live holy lives.

1Pe 1:15 but as he who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct,
1Pe 1:16 since it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."
​

To keep the Sabbath is to be holy in conduct. The Sabbath is also a righteousness law. It is unrighteous to cause someone to work on the Sabbath.

This holiness is a gift....not an observance. You are under the law...not grace. The Sabbath is not about righteousness at all. It is about law...if you keep it as a regular natural man...OR about grace if you cease your carnal observance and judgments....and enter into Christ....who is always holy.

 

[GodsGrace]

Remember that the sign of the covenant with Abraham was circumcision, but when that Seed was fulfilled in Christ, we are no longer under the law of circumcision - it is now spiritual of the heart, not of the flesh.

It is the same with the Ten Commandments and its sign, the Sabbath. When the covenant was fulfilled in Christ, and He brought in a New Covenant, the old sign became spiritual - our rest in Jesus - grace. And now our sign is the Cup.

Circumcision is not one of the 10 Commandments...

 

[Episkopos]

Wow. You know all about the covenants, all about asking the right questions, all about faith.

Do you also agree that we MUST keep the commandments of God or are you one of those who is trusting Jesus to keep all the commandments for them when Jesus Himself said you will be judged by what you do.

We are commanded to love as He loves. If you enter into Christ you will do the same as He did. We overcome through His grace (power) so then to sit on thrones as He will. That is the gospel....based on a new life in Christ.

Are you sure that you are not just making provision for the flesh....by NOT obeying anything at all?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Circumcision is not one of the 10 Commandments...

I didn't say it was. It was 430 years before the Ten Commandments, but was not fulfilled by the Ten Commandments - only in Christ.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We are commanded to love as He loves. If you enter into Christ you will do the same as He did. We overcome through His grace (power) so then to sit on thrones as He will. That is the gospel....based on a new life in Christ.

Are you sure that you are not just making provision for the flesh....by NOT obeying anything at all?

She's not saying that at all! Just the opposite. She believes in keeping the Ten Commandments, just not the sacrifices.

 

[gadar perets]

Thus, I do not know what he is. Messianic Jew is still Christian. His refusal to identify with that raises flags to me.

I was kicked out of one Christian church because I kept the Sabbath. I was told by another church that I could not be a Christian because I reject the trinity. I was told by a third church that I will be lost if I do not return to the mother church. If Christianity doesn't want me, so be it. I know Yeshua wants me and that is all that matters. Christianity is NOT the door to the Kingdom of Heaven, Yeshua is.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are commanded to love as He loves. If you enter into Christ you will do the same as He did. We overcome through His grace (power) so then to sit on thrones as He will. That is the gospel....based on a new life in Christ.

Are you sure that you are not just making provision for the flesh....by NOT obeying anything at all?

If YOU enter into Christ, you will believe Him, have faith in Him, and obey Him.
There is no other way.

 

[GodsGrace]

She's not saying that at all! Just the opposite. She believes in keeping the Ten Commandments, just not the sacrifices.

What do you mean by the sacrifices?

 

[Episkopos]

She's not saying that at all! Just the opposite. She believes in keeping the Ten Commandments, just not the sacrifices.

Actually she said that the NC is unconditional which makes obedience a sort of unimportant hobby. Either we need to be faithful or not. Enough confusion already.

 

[Episkopos]

If YOU enter into Christ, you will believe Him, have faith in Him, and obey Him.
There is no other way.

...walk in the same power and purity as He.

 

[GodsGrace]

I was kicked out of one Christian church because I kept the Sabbath. I was told by another church that I could not be a Christian because I reject the trinity. I was told by a third church that I will be lost if I do not return to the mother church. If Christianity doesn't want me, so be it. I know Yeshua wants me and that is all that matters. Christianity is NOT the door to the Kingdom of Heaven, Yeshua is.

There are too many sides to Christianity.
Seems we each have our opinion when what we should be doing is reading the words of Jesus very carefully and then follow them to the best of our ability.

I don't believe doctrine saves us.
We could all be wrong! But let us be convinced in our own mind.

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually she said that the NC is unconditional which makes obedience a sort of unimportant hobby. Either we need to be faithful or not. Enough confusion already.

THE NEW COVENANT IS UNCONDITIONAL.

Why not study up a bit before speaking about it.

 

[Episkopos]

There are too many sides to Christianity.
Seems we each have our opinion when what we should be doing is reading the words of Jesus very carefully and then follow them to the best of our ability.

I don't believe doctrine saves us.
We could all be wrong! But let us be convinced in our own mind.

I agree. Doctrine doesn't save us....but walking in new life does. The new life in Christ IS justification. Also, new life in Christ IS sanctification.

So it is all about life...of the eternal kind.

 

[Episkopos]

THE NEW COVENANT IS UNCONDITIONAL.

Why not study up a bit before speaking about it.

That's a cheap shot ....you only have that kind of tactic when you make things up...that are NOT found in the word.

Also...pride is not something that is covered by the Lord unless you repent of it.

 

[Enoch111]

I don't believe doctrine saves us.

Yes and No.

Only God saves sinners by His grace, but unless those sinners believe (DOCTRINE) that Jesus is GOD OUR SAVIOR, there is no salvation.

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) is to believe everything that is revealed about Him from Genesis to Revelation, as well as His finished work of redemption. At the very least to believe what is revealed in the NT, and even more, to believe what He has said about Himself -- that He is God, as well as the Son of God and the Son of Man. And this only scratches the surface.

 

[GodsGrace]

I didn't say it was. It was 430 years before the Ten Commandments, but was not fulfilled by the Ten Commandments - only in Christ.

This is what you said:

Remember that the sign of the covenant with Abraham was circumcision, but when that Seed was fulfilled in Christ, we are no longer under the law of circumcision - it is now spiritual of the heart, not of the flesh.

It is the same with the Ten Commandments and its sign, the Sabbath. When the covenant was fulfilled in Christ, and He brought in a New Covenant, the old sign became spiritual - our rest in Jesus - grace. And now our sign is the Cup.

The signs change with each covenant. There are also seals and they too change with each covenant.

With your above statement you're comparing SIGNS with the COMMANDMENTS.
Signs change, but the commandments of God DO NOT.

Keeping the Sabbath is a commandment.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes and No.

Only God saves sinners by His grace, but unless those sinners believe (DOCTRINE) that Jesus is GOD OUR SAVIOR, there is no salvation.

To believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) is to believe everything that is revealed about Him from Genesis to Revelation, as well as His finished work of redemption. At the very least to believe what is revealed in the NT, and even more, to believe what He has said about Himself -- that He is God, as well as the Son of God and the Son of Man. And this only scratches the surface.

Gee Enoch, don't you think everyone here believes this?
I would like to ask you however, WHERE does Jesus specifically say He is God?
(since you brought it up)

 

[GodsGrace]

That's a cheap shot ....you only have that kind of tactic when you make things up...that are NOT found in the word.

Also...pride is not something that is covered by the Lord unless you repent of it.

Well E, I meant it sincerely.
We had a discussion of covenants another time and you seemed not to know much about them even back then. Even back then I politely said you should study up.
I guess you didn't or you'd know that the NEW COVENANT has NO CONDITIONS.
It's an UNCONDITIONAL COVENANT.

It seems you don't know what that means. Again, I can only repeat that it would be really helpful for you to know, at least, the 5 or 6 more important covenants.
Really.

Then you could stop making comments that are incorrect and saying I'm proudful because I KNOW the NEW COVENANT is UNCONDITIONAL.

Blessings.

 

[GodsGrace]

@Episkopos

BTW, you won't be able to study the covenants from the bible.
It's kind of like trying to study the Trinity by reading Mathew 28:20.

 

[gadar perets]

"gadar perets, post: 435961, member: 7741"]
Romans 3:31 is about the law of YHWH. Romans 9:30 is referring to the law of righteousness. My righteousness comes through Yeshua, not through my law keeping. Therefore, I do not throw out any possibility of righteousness like the Jews did. I am clothed with Yeshua's righteousness. That does not give me licence to break the commandments.

If you were really justified through Christ you would not be looking to the law. Have you read this?

Rom. 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

We enter into God's righteousness by faith. If you are adding in the law...you haven't yet understood what faith is. You have fallen from grace.

Have you read this?

Rom. 10:4 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.​

Your bold was incomplete. Paul was not saying the law came to an end through Messiah. He meant seeking to be made righteous through the law has come to an end. That is what the Jews were doing. My righteousness comes through Yeshua. My obedience to the law is a fruit of my salvation.

So what? We are to cease from ALL our religious works. Jesus has come in the flesh. He is resurrected to give us His life, peace and rest. Why would you trade that for a silly notion that not working for one day a week is somehow pleasing to God...in the face of grace. You frustrate the grace of God in this way.

No, I'm not frustrating grace. I'm frustrating you because your sins are being exposed. Grace is frustrated when we seek to be justified by the law. Grace is complemented when we obey the law out of love for YHWH and our neighbors.

YHWH has ordained that we walk in good works (Ephesians 2:10).

You have missed the gospel. We are to walk as He walked in the same power...all the time. Jesus didn't put on His power only on sabbath days. Is that what you think? That Jesus was a Sabbath Messiah? Silliness.

No, that is not what I think. That is what you implied I think. We are to "go and sin no more" through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sin is the transgression of the law (1 John 3:4). Therefore, we are to go and stop breaking the law through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Then why are you trust your own Sabbath observance as if it was something we MUST do? You are totally doing this in the flesh.

That is your opinion so that you can justify your own sins. By declaring me to be walking in the flesh, you make it appear as though you are walking in the Spirit. Is the Spirit causing you to obey YHWH's commandments as Ezekiel said? Is the Spirit causing you to be subject to the law as Paul said? If not, then it is you who are walking in the flesh concerning the Sabbath.

I am retired and don't work in the world...does that make me more holy? Again silliness.

AAAH! So the truth comes out. Since you do not work hard in this world, you see no need for the Sabbath. I do work hard and I can't wait for the Sabbath.