Does Your Church Teach About the Rapture(Catching up) Heaven, Hell, Prophecy?

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Nancy

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I understand this is how you, and others like you see this...and please understand...I'm not planting my flag on a hill and saying I believe you are definitely wrong. Indeed, you may be right in this matter. I do hold a different opinion, but am open to lean should the Spirit guide me.
My point is, when the instant that those souls receive their glorified bodies, and those translated from the ground do so as well in the air....is that not the same as Christ being surrounded and glorified by his Saints?

1 Thess 4 tells us that the dead will rise first, then we who are alive will also meet Christ in the air...where we will both receive our new bodies.
1 Cor 15 tells us of the moment when those alive shall be caught up into the air and given new bodies. This, to me, is the same event of 1 Thess 4. But neither of them give us leave to paint two separate events...one before, one after.
Is is more of a case of perspective, I would argue...as is the two verses you've posted. Is it correct to say Christ comes twice...once for the just, and then again to punish those left behind? We have verses speaking of Jesus gathering his elect, but then verses speaking of him coming in judgement. It sounds like two different comings, right? It depends what side of the fence you're sitting on. For Christians, Christ's return will be glorious, his angels will surround him, as will his Saints...it will be wondrous! For sinners, his return will be one of judgement. It will be wrathful...it will be terrifying. But it doesn't have to be separate events to be experienced separately.

Look...I'm not trying to tear away at your end times view. It's okay for you to see it this way, because, let's be honest...while it doesn't outright say two events...it doesn't say it won't be! I think I'm more trying to explain how it is that some people arrive at a position different to yours, and that doing so doesn't necessarily means we're dissing you, or scripture. I worry sometimes that conversations on End Times gets so heated. I know it's an important topic, and I love talking about it, but I do wish we could discuss our differences more agreeably! (Not talking about you here, just in general!)

Can make your head spin hey @naomi?, I cannot tell you how many times I changed my view on the Rapture...and Pre/Mid/Post Trib.! All things "end times" is what originally made me hungry for the things of God, and still does! But...since 1993, my conclusion is that if something is not core to the Christian belief in Christ and has nothing to do with salvation then, in the large scheme of things, I just figure, meh... On the other hand, it is good to know ALL truth in the bible and, if we understood this and agreed (universally within the Church), we (Christians) could warn our unsaved loved ones who do NOT know what is coming, and when that time comes, if they still have breath in them they could call upon the name of the Lord and be saved! Amen! So, we all need to pray to understand these things clearly IMO (:
Bless you!
-nancy
 

Nancy

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Can you really explain that Scripturally so that it makes sense?
I can't.


Jesus comes WITH His saints (already in heaven)
FOR His saints (on earth). <---This has always where I am at now like, 'well gee, the saints were OBVIOUSLY already there waiting (as IF they still live in "time" like us) for Jesus..."
Then I'm thinking, uh, hey nance, NOTHING can be OBVIOUS to you!! He can do it all in the twinkling of an eye! JMHO
blessings!


Makes sense.
Can you really explain that Scripturally so that it makes sense?
I can't.
 

Nancy

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Jesus comes WITH His saints (already in heaven)
FOR His saints (on earth). <---This has always where I am at now like, 'well gee, the saints were OBVIOUSLY already there waiting (as IF they still live in "time" like us) for Jesus..."
Then I'm thinking, uh, hey nance, NOTHING can be OBVIOUS to you!! He can do it all in the twinkling of an eye! JMHO
blessings!


Makes sense.
Can you really explain that Scripturally so that it makes sense?
I can't.

Ixnay on the word "always" in my 1st sentance...tanx! :D
 

Enoch111

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My point is, when the instant that those souls receive their glorified bodies, and those translated from the ground do so as well in the air....is that not the same as Christ being surrounded and glorified by his Saints?
You are forgetting that just before the Second Coming of Christ there is the Marriage of th Lamb in Heaven (Rev 19). Therefore the Resurrection/Rapture cannot possibly be the same as the Second Coming. All the saints must be present in Heaven first, and only then will they descend with Christ to earth.
 

GodsGrace

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ah you know these for sure huh
Yes. I believe we go where our places are immediately upon death.
Most theologians believe this...not all. Some believe in soul sleep. And when those souls wake up, it'll feel IMMEDIATE anyway.

The priests I know who have studied theology believe we go with God upon death.
I don't think souls sleep. They're either alive always, or they die upon the death of the body and never wake up again.

How would you explain supernatural experiences if souls go to sleep?
By this I mean persons that have seen phantoms and the such. There are situations for which there is no explanation other than that someone has crossed some kind of "wall". Hate to sound a bit nutty, but you do hear some pretty odd things.

Plus, it's biblical. Didn't Jesus say THIS VERY DAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE.

I'm not discussing what Paradise is, but that that very day, the thief would be there.
 

GodsGrace

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to be fair it's likely as much the other way around, just like today; i don't blame A tbh
I wonder if John Calvin would have come up with his ideas if it were not for Augustine.
Anyway, how could anyone think such stuff. That God would pick and choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell; that He would play games with His creation.
What kind of a God do they worship?
 
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GodsGrace

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ah but now you are stating it differently; now it is a "belief."
guess you were on hiatus fro the "are your beliefs Absolute Truths?" thingy
I see your point.
Can we be absolutely sure about anything then?
No.
But I'm going by what Jesus said...
This Very Day You Will Be With Me In Paradise..or words to that effect.
 

Nancy

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I wonder if John Calvin would have come up with his ideas if it were not for Augustine.
Anyway, how could anyone think such stuff. That God would pick and choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell; that He would play games with His creation.
What kind of a God do they worship?

Ditto my Sainted sister!
 
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Taken

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No, because this is a 19th century man-made invention.

1 Thess. 4:16-18 takes place at the 2nd Coming of Christ - NOT at some "magical" time before that where His people are pulled out of danger.

Jesus returns ONCE - not twice . . .

The Rapture is not about Jesus "Returning Twice"....who taught you that nonsense?

Who taught you the Lords Work is "via magic"? What nonsense!

The Lord ONCE destroyed the Earth with Water. The Earths occupants died, save the faithful Noah and his family, who were raised UP above the Earth.

Again the The Lord shall destroy the Earth , but With Fire and the Lords faithful shall be raised UP (in their glorified bodies, above the Earth, to Meet "Their Lord" in the Air ....

Not two second comings as someone ignorantly taught you.


and the remaining occupants shall;
1) adamantly reject the Lord and Die in the devastation.
2) Elect to believe and surrender their life to Him, and suffer physical death., and raised up, glorified, and praise God in Heaven.
3) Found a haven, via heading out of the cities to the hills, be ministered to via the Lords 144,000 Tribal ministers, and be the remnant to repopulate the Earth for 1,000 years.

The Lords Kingdom Shall be on Earth and His Faithful shall be with Him.

The Lord Himself is Building His Church daily by and through His Offering of Salvation/Conversion, and the people who choose to accept His Offering.

His FOREVER Faithful accept His Offering and Stand FOREVER With Him and all others Reject Him, Stand Against Him and After Their Judgement Shall Forever BE Without Him.
 

Helen

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ah, but it takes 2-3 days to die by Xfixion, and that was day 1?

Haha! Well said..you are the first one I have ever heard to bring that up!
Very clever and worthy of deep thought.
I have never read any of the 'big boys' discussing that thought.
So which Day was He speaking of ? The Day Of The Lord?
Good post.

. . .. . . clap-animated-animation-clap-smiley.gif
 

BreadOfLife

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The Rapture is not about Jesus "Returning Twice"....who taught you that nonsense?

Who taught you the Lords Work is "via magic"? What nonsense!

The Lord ONCE destroyed the Earth with Water. The Earths occupants died, save the faithful Noah and his family, who were raised UP above the Earth.

Again the The Lord shall destroy the Earth , but With Fire and the Lords faithful shall be raised UP (in their glorified bodies, above the Earth, to Meet "Their Lord" in the Air ....

Not two second comings as someone ignorantly taught you.


and the remaining occupants shall;
1) adamantly reject the Lord and Die in the devastation.
2) Elect to believe and surrender their life to Him, and suffer physical death., and raised up, glorified, and praise God in Heaven.
3) Found a haven, via heading out of the cities to the hills, be ministered to via the Lords 144,000 Tribal ministers, and be the remnant to repopulate the Earth for 1,000 years.

The Lords Kingdom Shall be on Earth and His Faithful shall be with Him.

The Lord Himself is Building His Church daily by and through His Offering of Salvation/Conversion, and the people who choose to accept His Offering.

His FOREVER Faithful accept His Offering and Stand FOREVER With Him and all others Reject Him, Stand Against Him and After Their Judgement Shall Forever BE Without Him.
The plain truth of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" is that is is simply NOT mentioned in Scripture.
This was a fantasy concocted by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

NONE of YOUR Protestant Fathers taught this nonsense - yet, today, their ecclesial descendants do.
The events described in 1 Thess. 4:17 occur at the SECOND COMING of Christ - not at some "magical" time beforehand.

The Church has never been spared persecution - and never will. that's why Jesus includes it in the Beatitudes - and that's why the Early Church went through horrendous persecutions.
As for Noah and his family - they were "Left Behind" . . .
 
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Taken

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The plain truth of a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture" is that is is simply NOT mentioned in Scripture.

Not only mentioned, but taught!

This was a fantasy concocted by John Nelson Darby in the 19th century.

Taught to the Apostles Jesus CHOSE to reveal knowledge not BEFORE known.

NONE of YOUR Protestant Fathers taught this nonsense - yet, today, their ecclesial descendants do.

Protestant fathers....LOL

The events described in 1 Thess. 4:17 occur at the SECOND COMING of Christ -

No kidding! LOL short on comprehension ?

not at some "magical" time beforehand.[\QUOTE]

However it IS fascinating how you have determined How long the Lord can descend from heaven and remain in the clouds, before He sets foot on the Earth. LOL.

The Church has never been spared persecution - and never will.

wow ... Never Will? LOL

Sorry bubs, Guess the DIVISION teaching is set aside in your religion.

Jesus does not suffer His Church to His Wrath.

Not talking about your Church where sin continues in its congregation, but rather His Church, of His Faithful, He has Feed from sin, He Calls Up to Him, and They Hear His Call.

that's why Jesus includes it in the Beatitudes - and that's why the Early Church went through horrendous persecutions.[\/QUOTE]

Oh good grief! They suffered the consequences for disobedience to their Laws and His Commands!

As for Noah and his family - they were "Left Behind" . . .

LOL~ They were lifted Up Above the Earth and Saved to repopulate the Earth.... just as there shall be a remnant Saved to repopulate the Earth after the 7 Years of Tribulation.

I detect jealousy YOUR Fathers haven't taught you the Truth. Maybe they were to busy teaching they ARE the Holy Father, turning Gods Truth into a Lie, so God lets them believe their Lie.
 

Helen

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@Taken
As BOL correctly said..

Noah was left
....the wicked were "taken away". It says so right here.
It is as clear as day.
Matt 24:
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."

The bad seed is taken, not the righteous.

Matt 13:24
25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. 26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."

The evil was "gathered first" the wheat remains,just as Noah did.

That old 'rapture spin' about Noah being 'lifted up' , is foolish..
All the other were already gone = " taken away" !
 
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epostle1

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Rapture Crapture turned out to be a cash crop. Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth" sold 40 million copies and that was 30-50 years ago. Then there is the $$$ made on other books, movies and even greeting cards.
Fear sells. Yes, I read the book when I was young; I didn't know any better.
 
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BreadOfLife

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Not only mentioned, but taught!
Taught to the Apostles Jesus CHOSE to reveal knowledge not BEFORE known.
Protestant fathers....LOL
No kidding! LOL short on comprehension ?
Ummmmm, please show me the writings of the Protestant Father who taught a Pre-Tribulation "Rapture".

I eagerly await your well-researched response . . .
 

Naomi25

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Can make your head spin hey @naomi?, I cannot tell you how many times I changed my view on the Rapture...and Pre/Mid/Post Trib.! All things "end times" is what originally made me hungry for the things of God, and still does! But...since 1993, my conclusion is that if something is not core to the Christian belief in Christ and has nothing to do with salvation then, in the large scheme of things, I just figure, meh... On the other hand, it is good to know ALL truth in the bible and, if we understood this and agreed (universally within the Church), we (Christians) could warn our unsaved loved ones who do NOT know what is coming, and when that time comes, if they still have breath in them they could call upon the name of the Lord and be saved! Amen! So, we all need to pray to understand these things clearly IMO :)
Bless you!
-nancy

This is exactly how I think as well! Not "essential" enough to cause rifts...but important enough to dig into the truth of the matter! Plus...it's just plain exciting to think of our Lord coming back.
 
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