Does Your Church Teach About the Rapture(Catching up) Heaven, Hell, Prophecy?

[Helen]

All the theologians, scripture scholars, bishops, saints and reformers were incapable of interpreting God's word....until....
...John Nelson Darby came along. He broke off from the Plymouth Brethren over theological disputes. Founder of the Exclusive Brethren sect, Darby invented pre-tribulation rapture theology in 1830 that was totally foreign to all of Christianity.

His theory was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. The footnotes were made doctrine by American dispensationists.

...fast forward to 1970...

The biggest-selling work of non-fiction (other than the Bible) since 1970 is dispensationalist Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth (Bantam, 1970), which sold more than 40 million copies and established the blueprint for a number of other popular, self-described “Bible prophecy” experts (including Tim LaHaye, creator and coauthor of the Left Behind series)

LaHaye’s first work of “Bible prophecy” was The Beginning of the End (Tyndale, 1972), essentially a carbon copy of Lindsey’s mega-seller. In the years that followed, Lindsey and LaHaye, along with authors such as Salem Kirban, David Wilkinson, Dave Hunt, Grant Jeffrey, John Walvoord, and others, produced a string of best-selling books warning of the rapidly approaching pretribulation Rapture, the Antichrist, and the tribulation.

One message of LaHaye’s that comes across clearly in books such as Are We Living in the End Times?, Rapture Under Attack, and Revelation Unveiled is that the Catholic Church is apostate, Catholicism is “Babylonian mysticism” and an “idolatrous religion,” and Catholics worship Mary, knowing little about the real Jesus Christ. It’s difficult to overstate the dislike — even hatred — LaHaye has for the Catholic Church or to exaggerate the ridiculous character of his attacks. He condemns the use of candles in Catholic churches, insists there’s hardly any difference between Hinduism and Catholicism, and emphatically declares that the Catholic Church killed at least 40 million people during the “dark ages.”

When I asked LaHaye, via e-mail, why he never refers to Catholic sources or official documents in his writings, he replied:

Because I think that for centuries the Catholic Church has presented church history in a manner protective of “Mother church.” . . . I have seen more concern on the part of your church for Hindus, Buddhists, and other pagan religions than they do [sic] for those who love Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible and are committed to making Him known to the lost so they will not be Left Behind.

In other words, the Catholic Church is simply wrong and doesn’t deserve a fair hearing. LaHaye has not only revealed himself to be an anti-Catholic polemicist but a theologian with a seriously skewed view of God’s salvific work. In a newspaper interview, LaHaye said, “We’ve [himself and Jenkins] created a series of books about the greatest cosmic event that will happen in the history of the world.” What is that “greatest cosmic event”? The Incarnation? The Cross? The Resurrection? No, the Rapture — a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.

Library : Five Myths About the Rapture

It's ironic; all this talk about "end time persecution" and/or "great tribulation" while guys like Lahaye inflict it on Catholics.

copied from https://www.christianityboard.com/t...or-will-you-be-left-behind.26166/#post-415216

Glad that you said that.

...a lie that has 'salted' all of "Christendom" and is still propagated.
But that said...can people be deceived by accident, or is it a choice?
Each person must have 'chosen' to believe it!!

 

[Nancy]

Problems with the pre-tribulational view are highlighted by Baptist (and premillennial) theologian Dale Moody, who wrote:
"Belief in a pre-tribulational rapture . . . contradicts all three chapters in the New Testament that mention the tribulation and the rapture together (Mark 13:24–27; Matt. 24:26–31; 2 Thess. 2:1–12). . . . The theory is so biblically bankrupt that the usual defense is made using three passages that do not even mention a tribulation (John 14:3; 1 Thess. 4:17; 1 Cor. 15:52). These are important passages, but they have not had one word to say about a pre-tribulational rapture. The score is 3 to 0, three passages for a post-tribulational rapture and three that say nothing on the subject.
. . . Pre-tribulationism is biblically bankrupt and does not know it" (The Word of Truth, 556–7).

As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).
https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-rapture

I pray that pre trib rapture folks will take heed to all the scriptures telling us to be prepared for the things that are to come, we are to build our faith like a muscle so as to stand firm in the faith and not faint during these times. I do believe Christians will be protected but, I lean toward no rapture.
good post, ty!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Hey breadman,
I've missed you!

Am I the only one on this whole forum that agrees with you every now and then??

One of a very few . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nop me too...quite often...right BOL ? :)

Yup - you're one of the "few" . . .

 

[epostle1]

Glad that you said that.

...a lie that has 'salted' all of "Christendom" and is still propagated.
But that said...can people be deceived by accident, or is it a choice?
Each person must have 'chosen' to believe it!!

St. Augustine said he met a lot people who were deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.

 

[GodsGrace]

All the theologians, scripture scholars, bishops, saints and reformers were incapable of interpreting God's word....until....
...John Nelson Darby came along. He broke off from the Plymouth Brethren over theological disputes. Founder of the Exclusive Brethren sect, Darby invented pre-tribulation rapture theology in 1830 that was totally foreign to all of Christianity.

His theory was further popularized in the United States in the early 20th century by the wide circulation of the Scofield Reference Bible. The footnotes were made doctrine by American dispensationists.

...fast forward to 1970...

The biggest-selling work of non-fiction (other than the Bible) since 1970 is dispensationalist Hal Lindsey’s The Late Great Planet Earth (Bantam, 1970), which sold more than 40 million copies and established the blueprint for a number of other popular, self-described “Bible prophecy” experts (including Tim LaHaye, creator and coauthor of the Left Behind series)

LaHaye’s first work of “Bible prophecy” was The Beginning of the End (Tyndale, 1972), essentially a carbon copy of Lindsey’s mega-seller. In the years that followed, Lindsey and LaHaye, along with authors such as Salem Kirban, David Wilkinson, Dave Hunt, Grant Jeffrey, John Walvoord, and others, produced a string of best-selling books warning of the rapidly approaching pretribulation Rapture, the Antichrist, and the tribulation.

One message of LaHaye’s that comes across clearly in books such as Are We Living in the End Times?, Rapture Under Attack, and Revelation Unveiled is that the Catholic Church is apostate, Catholicism is “Babylonian mysticism” and an “idolatrous religion,” and Catholics worship Mary, knowing little about the real Jesus Christ. It’s difficult to overstate the dislike — even hatred — LaHaye has for the Catholic Church or to exaggerate the ridiculous character of his attacks. He condemns the use of candles in Catholic churches, insists there’s hardly any difference between Hinduism and Catholicism, and emphatically declares that the Catholic Church killed at least 40 million people during the “dark ages.”

When I asked LaHaye, via e-mail, why he never refers to Catholic sources or official documents in his writings, he replied:

Because I think that for centuries the Catholic Church has presented church history in a manner protective of “Mother church.” . . . I have seen more concern on the part of your church for Hindus, Buddhists, and other pagan religions than they do [sic] for those who love Jesus Christ as He is presented in the Bible and are committed to making Him known to the lost so they will not be Left Behind.

In other words, the Catholic Church is simply wrong and doesn’t deserve a fair hearing. LaHaye has not only revealed himself to be an anti-Catholic polemicist but a theologian with a seriously skewed view of God’s salvific work. In a newspaper interview, LaHaye said, “We’ve [himself and Jenkins] created a series of books about the greatest cosmic event that will happen in the history of the world.” What is that “greatest cosmic event”? The Incarnation? The Cross? The Resurrection? No, the Rapture — a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.

Library : Five Myths About the Rapture

It's ironic; all this talk about "end time persecution" and/or "great tribulation" while guys like Lahaye inflict it on Catholics.

copied from https://www.christianityboard.com/t...or-will-you-be-left-behind.26166/#post-415216

So much information!
Thanks.

 

[Enoch111]

So much information!

And so misleading.

Whenever you see information overload, rest assured that it is not necessarily beneficial. There is an enormous amount of information on the Internet, but that has not made people any wiser. Why? A word to the wise is sufficient.

Jesus said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself". That's the key.

 

[Phoneman777]

Yes, I agree. I don't even know about the 7 years apart...

In the 16th century, the Protestant attacks against the Papacy as the Antichrist of prophecy resulted in so many Catholics abandoning the Roman Catholic church and joining up to worship with Protestants that the RCC, as part of their "counter-reformation" response, produced by the hand of Jesuit Francisco Ribera the idea of "Jesuit Futurism", which stated that the Papacy was not the Antichrist, but that the Antichrist was a super bad guy who will come at the end of time during the "last 7 years of tribulation". Darby came along in the 19th century and added the idea of a "Secret Rapture" of the church that would take place at the beginning of the 7 years. The 7 years are taken from the 70 Weeks prophecy in Daniel where the 70th week is ripped from the pages of Daniel and sent down to the end of time, which is prohibited in the very works of the prophecy itself.

 

[aspen]

St. Augustine said he met a lot people who were deceived, but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.

Really?!

I didn’t know Augustine was an anchorite.....cause he must not of known many people

Practically everyone I know wants to be decieved. Our whole culture teaches us how to seek out deception and spent lotss of money doing so.

 

[epostle1]

Really?!

I didn’t know Augustine was an anchorite.....cause he must not of known many people

Practically everyone I know wants to be decieved. Our whole culture teaches us how to seek out deception and spent lotss of money doing so.

That's just being deceived. St. Augustine was one of the most brilliant theologian of his day and an early Church Father. Even some Protestants like him. Do they want to be deceived?

 

[aspen]

That's just being deceived. St. Augustine was one of the most brilliant theologian of his day and an early Church Father. Even some Protestants like him. Do they want to be deceived?

Yes, i know about Augustine - read Confessions and city of God. Who knows if the want to be deceived, but many people do in the US

 

[GodsGrace]

And so misleading.

Whenever you see information overload, rest assured that it is not necessarily beneficial. There is an enormous amount of information on the Internet, but that has not made people any wiser. Why? A word to the wise is sufficient.

Jesus said "I will come again, and receive you unto myself". That's the key.

I do agree that there is no such thing as a rapture. I've never been able to find this in the N.T. I always questioned about the "one taken, one will be left", but I've come to believe it means that those taken would be killed by the Romans. (who destroyed Jerusalem in 70AD).

As far as the internet, I've always said that I don't care to learn from the internet.
Too much misinformation.

 

[GodsGrace]

That's just being deceived. St. Augustine was one of the most brilliant theologian of his day and an early Church Father. Even some Protestants like him. Do they want to be deceived?

Of course even some protestants like him.
He invented predestination.
He invented election.

He was brilliant, but his gnostic and manechaen days must have had some influence on him.

I don't care for him. And I don't understand why he was such a big influence on the church...even original sin came from him and thus, infant baptism.

 

[H. Richard]

Have fun!!!====I did my duty!!! I sounded a warning and gave you God's Word 1 Thess. 4:16-18

***

1 Thess 4:16-18
16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
NKJV

It is only those """IN CHRIST""" that are caught up at this coming of Jesus Christ.

1 Cor 15:23-26
23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming.

NOTE: ONLY THOSE THAT ARE """IN CHRIST""" are resurrected at this time (coming).

Verse 24 -26 is after Jesus has put His enemies under His feet.

24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.
25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death.
NKJV

Rev 20:6
6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.
NKJV

 

[Nancy]

I pray that pre trib rapture folks will take heed to all the scriptures telling us to be prepared for the thinbe gs that are to come, we are to build our faith like a muscle so as to stand firm in the faith and not faint during these times. I do believe Christians will be protected but, I lean toward no rapture.
good post, ty!

P.S.- Also, wouldn't you think since God wishes that none should perish, that He would keep His people on the earth, especially during the whole Tribulation, Will the Church still be that light that shines upon a hill? Although unsaved, they still have breath in them so, they will have that chance to receive the Truth, and how else will they hear of or be reminded of things they might have heard in the past and scoffed at?
Blessings
to you!
-nancy

 

[bbyrd009]

but never met anyone who wanted to be deceived.

srsly?

ty for this verifying bit about Augustine then

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't care for him.

he is a criminal

 

[GodsGrace]

he is a criminal

You mean literally?
Why?

 

[bbyrd009]

You mean literally?
Why?

well, i mean spiritually, and i would just pick one of the crimes you mentioned, or Augustinianism, or any of the many other heresies he promoted. Of course i don't mean that he should not be forgiven; but quoted, or postured as a "father?"
Charles Manson was at least true to himself, why not quote him imo

 

[GodsGrace]

well, i mean spiritually, and i would just pick one of the crimes you mentioned, or Augustinianism, or any of the many other heresies he promoted. Of course i don't mean that he should not be forgiven; but quoted, or postured as a "father?"
Charles Manson was at least true to himself, why not quote him imo

Agreed.
I NEVER quote Augustine.
He made a mess and the church accepted it.