Love

[bbyrd009]

The scripture Tell us that if you love, mother or father or brother or sister or husband or wife more than God, then you are not worthy of him.

i am somewhat surprised that "husband or wife" could even be included in that, if "the two become one." hmm

 

[VictoryinJesus]

My

I certainly agree we should love one another, and yes we are showing love for God when we do so. However I believe more is required, such as in praising and glorifying God's holy name Jehovah, letting everyone know that he is the creator of all things and the source of all life, that his rulership is not only a loving and just rulership, but is the hope of mankind, that is why Jesus tells us to pray for that kingdom (God rulership). Jehovah has made his Only- Begotten Son Jesus Christ King of that Kingdom, this Kingdom is the rulership that will destroy the works of Satan. Testifying about these things is putting the love of God first in your life. Yes we love each other especially our spiritual brother and sister and also mankind, but that's because Jehovah God and his only- Begotten Son Jesus loved us first and we are following thier example.

You said "Testifying about these things is putting the love of God first in your life". Disagree. Our action "testifies" and that action is, you said it in your last sentence "God and his only- Begotten Son Jesus loved us first and we are following their example" loved us "first" while we were yet in sin. What is the example we follow then??

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Since faith comes by hearing the word of God, then Able had faith in God's word. God instructed them on the type of sacrifice they were to offer else how did Abel know what kind of sacrifice to make or that he was even to make a sacrifice at all? Abel "by faith" followed God's word and Cain did not.
Abel doing as God said was why he was righteous - right doing.

You miss the point. Abel "obeyed" the Word through mercy. That was a "righteous" gift.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

i am somewhat surprised that "husband or wife" could even be included in that, if "the two become one." hmm

When you look at a couple as becoming one, do you think you should love yourself more than God, if you're looking at yourself and your wife as being one person?

 

[bbyrd009]

When you look at a couple as becoming one, do you think you should love yourself more than God, if you're looking at yourself and your wife as being one person?

ah, good point

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You miss the point. Abel "obeyed" the Word through mercy. That was a "righteous" gift.

The issue I am dealing with was why Abel's offering was accepted and Cain's not. Abel's offer was accepted because it was 'by faith' whereas Cain's was not. It was Abel's faithful obedient offering BY WHICH he obtained witness he was righteous. Had Abel not done as God said, then he would not have been righteous.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You said "Testifying about these things is putting the love of God first in your life". Disagree. Our action "testifies" and that action is, you said it in your last sentence "God and his only- Begotten Son Jesus loved us first and we are following their example" loved us "first" while we were yet in sin. What is the example we follow then??

Jehovah God and his only Begotten Son set the example that we mattered to them, that how we feel what we think is important to them, so what they think how they feel should matter to us. It matters to Jehovah God and his only Begotten Son that Satan called Jehovah God a liar and a unjust Ruler, implying Jehovah God Rulership is not in the best interest of mankind, so since these things matter to them we should be testifying to the world that Jehovah is a loving and just God and therefore his rulership is in the best interest to mankind, that we should be listening and applying his wisdom in our lives.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The issue I am dealing with was why Abel's offering was accepted and Cain's not. Abel's offer was accepted because it was 'by faith' whereas Cain's was not. It was Abel's faithful obedient offering BY WHICH he obtained witness he was righteous. Had Abel not done as God said, then he would not have been righteous.

Is not the “witness” of righteousness the Son, Jesus Christ? I don’t deny what you say but sense the clever wording conceals what you really mean. Abel’s sacrifice testified of what was to come which was mercy through the Son. Cain’s did not please God because it demonstrated no testimony of mercy(the Son), instead Cain mudered his brother.

 

[Stranger]

Adam didn't have to be disobedient because Eve chose to be disobedient. Do you think that if someone jumps off a cliff we all should follow that person and jump off the cliff too? By you asking, "if Adam doesn't eat, where does that leave Eve?" Asking a question like that is reasoning that love for a human comes before the love for God, and I will not agree with that kind of reasoning. The scripture Tell us that if you love, mother or father or brother or sister or husband or wife more than God, then you are not worthy of him. I know that if Adam had called upon God rather than follow Eve in her disobedience, God would have handled it in a loving and just way.

You say Adam should not have eaten because love for the human doesn't come before the love of God. Don't you think God loved Eve? Don't you think Adam did what God would have done. Which is exactly what Christ did.

The Son had a bride in the making. The Son said, when faced with the terror of the cross, 'Remove this cup from me'. (Luke 22:42) Yet the Father's will was that He partake of the cup. (Luke 22:42) The Last Adam went down into a fall to deliever His bride just like the First Adam did to deliever his bride.

You say God would have handled it in a loving and just way? How? Tell me how God would be just and how He would have handled it? He showed how He would handle it in a loving and just way by doing exactly what Adam did.

What other way was there to rescue Eve and all those to be born of Adam and Eve?

Stranger

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You say Adam should not have eaten because love for the human doesn't come before the love of God. Don't you think God loved Eve? Don't you think Adam did what God would have done. Which is exactly what Christ did.

The Son had a bride in the making. The Son said, when faced with the terror of the cross, 'Remove this cup from me'. (Luke 22:42) Yet the Father's will was that He partake of the cup. (Luke 22:42) The Last Adam went down into a fall to deliever His bride just like the First Adam did to deliever his bride.

You say God would have handled it in a loving and just way? How? Tell me how God would be just and how He would have handled it? He showed how He would handle it in a loving and just way by doing exactly what Adam did.

What other way was there to rescue Eve and all those to be born of Adam and Eve?

Stranger

I disagree, you are saying God approves of Adam being disobedient. I will never agree with that. Exactly how God would have handled it I don't know, but God wants us to be obedient to him and not go own way not asking for his wisdom on the matter, Adam didn't call to God asking for his help.If Adam did what God would have done, why did both Adam and Eve hide when he was calling for them and why would God punish Adam if Adam did what God would have done. If Adam did what God would have done then Adam would have been following God example, yet God punished Adam, are you saying God punish us when we do things his way?

 

[mjrhealth]

et God punished Adam, are you saying God punish us when we do things his way?

May I ask how??

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

May I ask how??

Are you saying that you don't believe the punishment for sin is death? In the case of Adam and Eve they sinned by being disobedient, death is the punishment for that disobedience.

 

[Stranger]

I disagree, you are saying God approves of Adam being disobedient. I will never agree with that. Exactly how God would have handled it I don't know, but God wants us to be obedient to him and not go own way not asking for his wisdom on the matter, Adam didn't call to God asking for his help.If Adam did what God would have done, why did both Adam and Eve hide when he was calling for them and why would God punish Adam if Adam did what God would have done. If Adam did what God would have done then Adam would have been following God example, yet God punished Adam, are you saying God punish us when we do things his way?

You say you don't know how God would have handled it. So what good is your answer? You have before you how Jesus Christ's actions were the same as Adams actions. And both became guilty of sin as the result. As a result God provided a salvation which got Adam back and in so doing got Eve back also. Jesus Christ became sin for us and God got Him back and as a result got all those in Christ back also.

You ask if Adam did what God would have done why did he hide after being found out? Ask this first. If it was the will of the Father for the Son to become sin for us, why did Christ cry out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Ask now, does God punish us when we do things his way?

Not only do you not know what would have happened to Eve, but you don't care. You have no answer, but would rather see Adam turn from her, leaving her in the worst condition a human being could be in.....Something God has shown you in Christ that He would never do.

Stranger

 

[mjrhealth]

Are you saying that you don't believe the punishment for sin is death? In the case of Adam and Eve they sinned by being disobedient, death is the punishment for that disobedience.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You say you don't know how God would have handled it. So what good is your answer? You have before you how Jesus Christ's actions were the same as Adams actions. And both became guilty of sin as the result. As a result God provided a salvation which got Adam back and in so doing got Eve back also. Jesus Christ became sin for us and God got Him back and as a result got all those in Christ back also.

You ask if Adam did what God would have done why did he hide after being found out? Ask this first. If it was the will of the Father for the Son to become sin for us, why did Christ cry out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Ask now, does God punish us when we do things his way?

Not only do you not know what would have happened to Eve, but you don't care. You have no answer, but would rather see Adam turn from her, leaving her in the worst condition a human being could be in.....Something God has shown you in Christ that He would never do.

Stranger

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

Death is not a punishment, death is the consequence, like sticking your hand in a fire, it will burn you.

It looks to me that the account at Genesis chapter 3 when God is addressing Adam is a punishment which includes death, both Adam and Eve death I believe is an eternal death. I believe the Ransom sacrifice applies to Adam and Eve offspring, but not Adam and Eve themselves.

 

[mjrhealth]

It looks to me that the account at Genesis chapter 3 when God is addressing Adam is a punishment which includes death, both Adam and Eve death I believe is an eternal death. I believe the Ransom sacrifice applies to Adam and Eve offspring, but not Adam and Eve themselves.

Oh mulitple posts , push a wrong button. Yes its funny how God is just like an abusive man. Nah God didnt punish Adam, death is just the consequence that came when sin entered into the world. something like this

Rom_1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Even removing Adam and Eve from the garden was for there (our) own good, can you imagine the problems if they had eaten of the tree of life after they had sinned, Hitler, stalin would live forever. oh what fun we would be having..

You need Him to be a punsiher, so you can be punished, is that it....

 

[Stranger]

It looks to me that the account at Genesis chapter 3 when God is addressing Adam is a punishment which includes death, both Adam and Eve death I believe is an eternal death. I believe the Ransom sacrifice applies to Adam and Eve offspring, but not Adam and Eve themselves.

Think about what you are saying. If Christ's sacrifice doesn't apply to Adam and Eve, then not all sin is paid for. If all sin is paid for, which it is, then how can you say the ransom does not apply to Adam and Eve?

Stranger

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

You say you don't know how God would have handled it. So what good is your answer? You have before you how Jesus Christ's actions were the same as Adams actions. And both became guilty of sin as the result. As a result God provided a salvation which got Adam back and in so doing got Eve back also. Jesus Christ became sin for us and God got Him back and as a result got all those in Christ back also.

You ask if Adam did what God would have done why did he hide after being found out? Ask this first. If it was the will of the Father for the Son to become sin for us, why did Christ cry out, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me"? Ask now, does God punish us when we do things his way?

Not only do you not know what would have happened to Eve, but you don't care. You have no answer, but would rather see Adam turn from her, leaving her in the worst condition a human being could be in.....Something God has shown you in Christ that He would never do.

Stranger

I don't believe Jesus Christ's actions were the same as Adam actions. Adam was disobedient, Jesus actions at no time ever were disobedient. I don't believe God would encourage disobedience, so no Jesus actions were not the same as Adams. You will find nowhere in scripture where Jesus was guilty of any sin. No God does not punish us for doing things his way. I think the scripture saying, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me, When Jesus said those words, evidently he was fulfilling a prophecy concerning his death. (Psalm 22:1) In a qualified sense, Jesus could also have meant that Jehovah had removed his protection and let his Son die a painful and shameful death so as to test his integrity to the limit. An examination of the events on that final day of Jesus’ earthly life shows that God heard his prayers.
On the night of his arrest, Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane. Three times he pleaded: “My Father if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me.” (Matthew 26:39, 42, 44) Jesus was not reluctant to give his life as a ransom for believing mankind. No, but he apparently was deeply concerned about the possibility of dishonoring his dearly beloved Father by dying on a torture stake as a cursed blasphemer. Did Jehovah hear Jesus’ prayer?

Years later the apostle Paul wrote: “In the days of his flesh Christ offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.” (Hebrews 5:7; Luke 22:42, 44) Yes, on an agonizing night preceding his death, Jesus “was favorably heard.” But how?

Jehovah sent an angel who “appeared to [Jesus] and strengthened him.” (Luke 22:43) Thus strengthened, Jesus was able to face death on the torture stake. Apparently, Jehovah then gave him assurance that his death on the stake would not bring reproach on the divine name but would eventually be the very thing used to sanctify it.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Think about what you are saying. If Christ's sacrifice doesn't apply to Adam and Eve, then not all sin is paid for. If all sin is paid for, which it is, then how can you say the ransom does not apply to Adam and Eve?

Stranger

Because Adam and Eve's offspring were brought forth in sin or born in sin, we were born with a disadvantage, not so when it comes to Adam and Eve, they were created perfect, they had no such disadvantage. When God said after creating everything including Adam and Eve, everything was very good, that means everything measures up to his perfect standards for what he says is very good. When Adam and Eve sinned they had no excuse for being disobedient, not that anyone should ever try to make excuses.

 

[mjrhealth]

Because Adam and Eve's offspring were brought forth in sin or born in sin, we were born with a disadvantage, not so when it comes to Adam and Eve, they were created perfect, they had no such disadvantage. When God said after creating everything including Adam and Eve, everything was very good, that means everything measures up to his perfect standards for what he says is very good. When Adam and Eve sinned they had no excuse for being disobedient, not that anyone should ever try to make excuses.

Oh they did, its the same one that men still plead today, ignorance, God certainly didnt appear to give them much explanation considering He knew what they where going to do, We have all the info, we are certainly without excuse yet men till today plead ignorance. No excuse none.