Saved By Fear?
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Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
Well-Known Member
Rollo Tamasi
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Rollo Tamasi
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Jun2u
Well-Known Member
Time and again, I’ve always maintained people just don’t know how to read and understand Scripture, especially not knowing how to connect the dots as you will.
God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning (Mr 4:34; 10-13). Reminds me of what Jesus told Nicodemus in Jon 3:12, “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
Many Scripture references have been offered by both sides and seem that the issue is still at a stalemate. I hope what I have to offer below will make a difference, one way or another, instead of the bickering over the word “election” and “foreknowledge” which BTW both camps equally have no idea what the words really mean in God’s perspective. So you take a secular dictionary to get your meaning instead of searching out the Scriptures.
I will dwell only on those Scriptures which I believe are essential to this topic, especially to those who believe man has a free will to somehow choose for God, and that they can play a part in their salvation.
It is true, the only time man had free will was at the Garden when everything was created “good” and there was no sin in the world. But once sin entered man has lost all relations with God including his free will, also became subject to physical as well as spiritual death, and was driven out of the Garden.
Hence, if God looked in the corridor of life (if ever there is such a thing), this is what He sees…
Romans 3:10-12:
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The heart of man is desperately wicked, who can know it (Jer 17:9).
Romans 3 is God’s assessment of mankind after the fall. If man is incapable or has not the ability and capacity to seek or choose for God, how is it possible that many believe man has a “free will?” Sure he has a will to get up at 7:00 AM, have steak and eggs with coffee for breakfast, put on brown suit and brown shoes to go to work, but to seek and choose for God he can’t because he is spiritually dead. A dead person has no life in himself. Below is a beautiful illustration of someone coming to life from death.
SALVATION AS SEEN IN THE RAISING OF LAZARUS…
Jon 11:25 Jesus told Martha, “I am the resurrection and the life believe thou me? At the tomb, Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus come forth!” Did Lazarus hear the command? Of course not, he was dead. But he did come forth. What had to have happened? Well, Jesus had to reach into the tomb and give Lazarus life
As Lazarus was physically dead, so are we spiritually dead.
As Lazarus was physically deaf, so are we spiritually deaf and cannot hear the true Gospel.
As Lazarus was physically blind, so are we spiritually blind and cannot see the truth of the Bible.
As Lazarus was physically dumb, so are we spiritually dumb and cannot speak the things of God.
In the raising of Lazarus, what contribution did he make towards his resurrection? NONE.
Rev 3:20 yet another illustration. Can the person behind the door hear Jesus knocking? It gets easier to understand once we learn how to connect the dots and that Jesus spoke in parables, doesn’t it?
Ephesians 2:1-5 reads:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And, mind you not by our faith either!
See also, Jon 6:44; 37.
It is evident through the illustrations in the raising of Lazarus and the person behind the door, and with other Scripture, evidence offered, that “free will” is NEVER taught in Scriptures. It is man’s understanding that is in error. The crux of the whole matter is that it is not possible for man to possess “free will” to choose for God after the fall.
To God Be The Glory
God spoke in parables and without a parable He did not speak. A parable is an earthly story with a heavenly/spiritual meaning (Mr 4:34; 10-13). Reminds me of what Jesus told Nicodemus in Jon 3:12, “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
Many Scripture references have been offered by both sides and seem that the issue is still at a stalemate. I hope what I have to offer below will make a difference, one way or another, instead of the bickering over the word “election” and “foreknowledge” which BTW both camps equally have no idea what the words really mean in God’s perspective. So you take a secular dictionary to get your meaning instead of searching out the Scriptures.
I will dwell only on those Scriptures which I believe are essential to this topic, especially to those who believe man has a free will to somehow choose for God, and that they can play a part in their salvation.
It is true, the only time man had free will was at the Garden when everything was created “good” and there was no sin in the world. But once sin entered man has lost all relations with God including his free will, also became subject to physical as well as spiritual death, and was driven out of the Garden.
Hence, if God looked in the corridor of life (if ever there is such a thing), this is what He sees…
Romans 3:10-12:
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The heart of man is desperately wicked, who can know it (Jer 17:9).
Romans 3 is God’s assessment of mankind after the fall. If man is incapable or has not the ability and capacity to seek or choose for God, how is it possible that many believe man has a “free will?” Sure he has a will to get up at 7:00 AM, have steak and eggs with coffee for breakfast, put on brown suit and brown shoes to go to work, but to seek and choose for God he can’t because he is spiritually dead. A dead person has no life in himself. Below is a beautiful illustration of someone coming to life from death.
SALVATION AS SEEN IN THE RAISING OF LAZARUS…
Jon 11:25 Jesus told Martha, “I am the resurrection and the life believe thou me? At the tomb, Jesus cried with a loud voice, “Lazarus come forth!” Did Lazarus hear the command? Of course not, he was dead. But he did come forth. What had to have happened? Well, Jesus had to reach into the tomb and give Lazarus life
As Lazarus was physically dead, so are we spiritually dead.
As Lazarus was physically deaf, so are we spiritually deaf and cannot hear the true Gospel.
As Lazarus was physically blind, so are we spiritually blind and cannot see the truth of the Bible.
As Lazarus was physically dumb, so are we spiritually dumb and cannot speak the things of God.
In the raising of Lazarus, what contribution did he make towards his resurrection? NONE.
Rev 3:20 yet another illustration. Can the person behind the door hear Jesus knocking? It gets easier to understand once we learn how to connect the dots and that Jesus spoke in parables, doesn’t it?
Ephesians 2:1-5 reads:
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And, mind you not by our faith either!
See also, Jon 6:44; 37.
It is evident through the illustrations in the raising of Lazarus and the person behind the door, and with other Scripture, evidence offered, that “free will” is NEVER taught in Scriptures. It is man’s understanding that is in error. The crux of the whole matter is that it is not possible for man to possess “free will” to choose for God after the fall.
To God Be The Glory
Paul does not agree with you.
Could you please explain then
Philomen 1:14
but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion but of your own free will.
Paul would seem to believe in free will.
Thanks.
Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
No I believe what I have being taught, this bit
Mat_11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
and this bit
Mat_16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
you could have it to if you asked.
Tel me which God do you worship, teh NIV, KJV, NSV , NKJ, God doesnt change, apparently His word can...
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