Once in Heaven, can you lose your salvation?

[bbyrd009]

ha, you hope pal. You will have no excuse in that day, ok, bc you and i both know that you have been forgiven, too right?
You better man up soon bro, your feed is searchable too ok. 'Member?
all you're doing right now is playing false prophet

Maybe that's what you think.
But that's not true.
Only the ones that repented and became born again.

Read this:

ok, go with that then, but anyone reading this can spend an hour or so in @Job 's feed, there at the end, and see, ok.
now don't get me wrong, what you say is still true--aside from the penance in your rebound, your 180 degree turn, anyway-
-but rebound kind of ends up being like prayer, sort of; it's for you, not for the rest of the Body. Weird, i know.

like, beyond weird. But i could even prolly dredge up some example from childhood or something, after i get woke up a little here.
But perhaps for now suffice it to say that Job is a decent guy, had some good insights, had some blind spots, tended to be a bit judgemental sometimes--so iow basically a lot like me lol--but pretty well liked, definitely forgiven. And nowhere to be found.

and the same fate awaits all of us, and i am not guessing, not even a little. this has been through the fire, several times for me now. it seems harsh, but it's just a natural law or something. this is why i rail at the "simply simply" suckers so much; bc if you do not become perfect as He is perfect, it is going to be you (common you here ok, "one") who cannot stand in the light; no one is going to be condemning you but yourself, in that day.

The very worst feeling on earth is to be forgiven of unrebounded sin

and i'd say that the number of Priests could be counted the same as the number of those who can confess mistakes one to another, but turns out there are counterfeits for that too; confessing to another in some dark closet, separated from the crime
pretending you can confess your sin to God, etc
Bible Search: confess your sin to God

 

[bbyrd009]

and i have copious Script for this too, that is interpreted in various other ways,

Which do you suppose is easier—to say to a paralysed man, 'Your sins are forgiven', or 'Get up, pick up your bed and walk'?

being just the first that comes to mind; but i could prolly Quote 100 or so of them

 

[bbyrd009]

(when you grasp that v up there dialectically it will make sense; logically of course, it does not)

 

[brakelite]

Our relational assent was accomplished in the plan of salvation and when we came into it when we were born-again. We have the Holy Spirit. We are now the sons of God. Our lives are hid with Christ in God.

Stranger

While I agree with the above, do you not think that once we see the Father and Son face to face, then that relationship will be such that we will grow in our understanding and knowledge of Him? It is my contention it will, and as a result of which to offend Him by any thought or deed would be so utterly repulsive there would be no need for God to remove our free will and power of choice. Our intimacy with our Savior would be such that our choices will always be immersed in a deep love and adoration so as to utterly remove any possibility of sin.

 

[n2thelight]

And?

Stranger

My opinion,but I'm thinking the leaves will keep us from that...

 

[Stranger]

While I agree with the above, do you not think that once we see the Father and Son face to face, then that relationship will be such that we will grow in our understanding and knowledge of Him? It is my contention it will, and as a result of which to offend Him by any thought or deed would be so utterly repulsive there would be no need for God to remove our free will and power of choice. Our intimacy with our Savior would be such that our choices will always be immersed in a deep love and adoration so as to utterly remove any possibility of sin.

We will always be growing in the knowledge of God throughout all eternity. Wherever we are at with our knowledge of God is no guarantee of our falling away. Lucifer was very near to God, 'the anointed Cherub that covereth', as in the Holy of Holies. I believe Adam and Eve had a very advanced knowledge of God in their perfect and sinless existance. None of these protected from a falling away when they had an individual will.

What you're saying about growing in knowledge and intimacy with the Lord is true. But to say that will keep us from falling away, puts the onus on us to not fall away. If it didn't work with Adam and Eve and Lucifer and his angels, why should we think that of all those people who are saved, there won't be some who fall away also in Heaven?

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

My opinion,but I'm thinking the leaves will keep us from that...

'Healing of the nations' is not the same as keeping an individual from falling or sinning.

Stranger

 

[brakelite]

What you're saying about growing in knowledge and intimacy with the Lord is true. But to say that will keep us from falling away, puts the onus on us to not fall away. If it didn't work with Adam and Eve and Lucifer and his angels, why should we think that of all those people who are saved, there won't be some who fall away also in Heaven?

The difference is that they didn't have Calvary. No-one...not angel nor human nor any other creature, knew the depth and extent of the love of God...His grace and mercy...until Calvary.

 

[Helen]

The very worst feeling on earth is to be forgiven of unrebounded sin

Okay, it is time I humbled myself and ASKED

I keep thinking that ever time I read that I will automatically understand it one day...but I still do not understand it, you use it quite a lot.

What do you mean when you write unrebounded sin .
I have even googled it. I find unbounded = "having or appearing to have no limits."
I can find rebounded.= "bounce back through the air after hitting a hard surface or object."

But I can't find or understand "Unrebounded"


BTW I like your "Patch Adams" quote. :)

 

[Stranger]

The difference is that they didn't have Calvary. No-one...not angel nor human nor any other creature, knew the depth and extent of the love of God...His grace and mercy...until Calvary.

I agree. And the work that Christ accomplished at Calvary has been applied to the believer in Christ now. So that if the work of Calvary secures the believer in Heaven, then it secures the believer now also from ever losing his/her salvation.

Stranger

 

[bbyrd009]

Okay, it is time I humbled myself and ASKED

I keep thinking that ever time I read that I will automatically understand it one day...but I still do not understand it, you use it quite a lot.

What do you mean when you write unrebounded sin .
I have even googled it. I find unbounded = "having or appearing to have no limits."
I can find rebounded.= "bounce back through the air after hitting a hard surface or object."

But I can't find or understand "Unrebounded"
View attachment 1880

BTW I like your "Patch Adams" quote. :)

"unrepented," you would say; sorry, i have used the term enough i thought you would be fam with it

the fact that one is forgiven will not matter--as we made plain to Job right before he left--if one is not prepared to confess the wrong (that they do not believe is wrong, even though they would not like it being done to them) and rebound/repent.

this is "the secret." This describes "the mystery."
completely makes no logical sense, right--one would imagine that an unrebounded sinner might walk in, hear or perceive that he is forgiven, and happily start mucking about the place, oblivious and loving it; but it does not work that way. They are going to be imagining whispers where there are none, and feel as if they were being talked down to or tolerated when the forgivers are not even thinking like that, and have moved on (mentally) long time ago.

there are even like famous movie scenes where someone's conscience is eating them alive, when none of the other players are even aware of the crime, an example should be forthcoming here. Bogart, in Treasure of the Sierra Madre, maybe? The prob with finding as ready an example as Job's last day or so here is that these scenarios take a while to culminate, and cannot be shown easily in a one minute clip or whatever

the unconfessed sin will eat you, whether it is known by everyone (who already forgives) or not. One cannot stand in the light with unconfessed sin. Quickest way to get rid of some ppl? Loan them ten bucks! Lol, same deal, or very similar anyway. The borrower cannot stand to be around the lender, even if the lender has forgotten all about the loan

 

[Helen]

Thanks... @bbyrd009 now I get it!

 

[brakelite]

I agree. And the work that Christ accomplished at Calvary has been applied to the believer in Christ now. So that if the work of Calvary secures the believer in Heaven, then it secures the believer now also from ever losing his/her salvation.

Stranger

But for now our limited understanding of that doesn't secure the believer from sin...in heaven it will. For now our faith in Calvary and the love of God is certainly sufficient to secure our salvation...but for many, not sufficient (in their understanding thereof from sin). Although I believe it is possible to not sin...but that is wholly dependant upon the intimacy of our relationship. The debate today that is so prevalent is to what extent does sin effect our salvation which leads to OSAS...but that is another discussion.

 

[n2thelight]

'Healing of the nations' is not the same as keeping an individual from falling or sinning.

Stranger

Are not individuals of a nation?

 

[Dcopymope]

Are not individuals of a nation?

Consider this:

(Galatians 3:26-29) "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. {27} For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. {28} There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. {29} And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

When it comes down to it, if you are saved, you are considered of new Jerusalem due to your faith. There will be no "Jews" or "gentiles", only "saints". If you are a "saint", then the tree of life is of no concern to you whatsoever. This is why Jesus and his disciples neglected to mention anything about us needing a tree to give us life or 'heal' us, because for us, Jesus Christ is the life, and it is by his blood that we are healed. The tree will be for those God grants access to on the account of their name being in the book of life. It will have nothing to do with us, and it has nothing to do with making them sinless or impervious to sin either.

 

[Stranger]

But for now our limited understanding of that doesn't secure the believer from sin...in heaven it will. For now our faith in Calvary and the love of God is certainly sufficient to secure our salvation...but for many, not sufficient (in their understanding thereof from sin). Although I believe it is possible to not sin...but that is wholly dependant upon the intimacy of our relationship. The debate today that is so prevalent is to what extent does sin effect our salvation which leads to OSAS...but that is another discussion.

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

The believer is secure from sin now. Our life is hid with Christ in God. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col. 3:3)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

Are not individuals of a nation?

Nations are made up of individuals. But when spoken of as nations they are viewed as the whole. And, this healing does not indicate any protection of the loss of salvation.

Stranger

 

[APAK]

(1 John 3:9) "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God"

The believer is secure from sin now. Our life is hid with Christ in God. "For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God." (Col. 3:3)

Stranger

Stranger:

(1Jn 3:9) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. (ESV) Standard English Version

(1Jn 3:9) God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so that they cannot keep on sinning. (CEV) Contemporary English Version

(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (KJV)

(Col 3:1) If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

(Col 3:2) Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.

(Col 3:3) For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

(Col 3:4) When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

(Col 3:5) Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

(Col 3:6) On account of these the wrath of God is coming.

(Col 3:7) In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.

(Col 3:8) But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

(Col 3:9) Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices

(Col 3:10) and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. (ALL ESV)

(Col 2:20) If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— (ESV)

This scripture passage of Col 3:1 – 10 and not just Col 3:3, along with 1 John 3:9 sheds light about being ‘dead’ to sin. I would also point out that the KJV of 1 John 3:9 is not the best translation. Therefore, I have posted the same verse from two other Bible versions. above.

When we are ‘dead’ in Christ. it means we are considered in the eyes of God dead to the spirits of this world and its influence (Col 2:20). The Greek translation means we are literally dead. We are now making a lifestyle and career of staying in Christ’s domain and spirit. The seed planted within us grows and keeps us more and more in Christ, every day.

It is not that we said one day, I will not be a part of this world anymore, I want to be in Christ and dead to the world. The seed planted within our hearts as it grows, literally convinces us we are not of this world anymore. Our mind changes to the new growing spiritual life. It does not mean that we have completely stopped sinning though. Our human nature still yearns to take credit in the world at times. We cannot completely stop sinning. We do however stop make a career of sinning, especially in areas that caused us issues in the past. Col 3:8-9 tells us by inference that we still sin even though we are considered dead to the world. We do not get condemned anymore however.

It is a maturing process and not an instant remake of a new spiritual person.

If this was the case I need to figure out what I’m doing wrong.

Bless you,


APAK

 

[Stranger]

Stranger:

(1Jn 3:9) No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. (ESV) Standard English Version

(1Jn 3:9) God's children cannot keep on being sinful. His life-giving power lives in them and makes them his children, so that they cannot keep on sinning. (CEV) Contemporary English Version

(1Jn 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (KJV)

(Col 3:1) If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

(Col 3:2) Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth.

(Col 3:3) For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

(Col 3:4) When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.

(Col 3:5) Put to death therefore what is earthly in you: sexual immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry.

(Col 3:6) On account of these the wrath of God is coming.

(Col 3:7) In these you too once walked, when you were living in them.

(Col 3:8) But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth.

(Col 3:9) Do not lie to one another, seeing that you have put off the old self with its practices

(Col 3:10) and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. (ALL ESV)

(Col 2:20) If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— (ESV)

This scripture passage of Col 3:1 – 10 and not just Col 3:3, along with 1 John 3:9 sheds light about being ‘dead’ to sin. I would also point out that the KJV of 1 John 3:9 is not the best translation. Therefore, I have posted the same verse from two other Bible versions. above.

When we are ‘dead’ in Christ. it means we are considered in the eyes of God dead to the spirits of this world and its influence (Col 2:20). The Greek translation means we are literally dead. We are now making a lifestyle and career of staying in Christ’s domain and spirit. The seed planted within us grows and keeps us more and more in Christ, every day.

It is not that we said one day, I will not be a part of this world anymore, I want to be in Christ and dead to the world. The seed planted within our hearts as it grows, literally convinces us we are not of this world anymore. Our mind changes to the new growing spiritual life. It does not mean that we have completely stopped sinning though. Our human nature still yearns to take credit in the world at times. We cannot completely stop sinning. We do however stop make a career of sinning, especially in areas that caused us issues in the past. Col 3:8-9 tells us by inference that we still sin even though we are considered dead to the world. We do not get condemned anymore however.

It is a maturing process and not an instant remake of a new spiritual person.

If this was the case I need to figure out what I’m doing wrong.

Bless you,


APAK

I believe the KJV is the best translation. And (Col. 3:3) means just what it says. We are dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.

The same with (John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin. Sin is the product of the old and dead man.

Being born-again is not a maturing process. And that is when we are dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.

Stranger

 

[APAK]

I believe the KJV is the best translation. And (Col. 3:3) means just what it says. We are dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.

The same with (John 3:9) Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin. Sin is the product of the old and dead man.

Being born-again is not a maturing process. And that is when we are dead and our lives are hid with Christ in God.

Stranger

Stranger,

So you are already fully mature and the spirit of God is done working and perfecting you? You perform the will of God 100% of the time and you have NO human nature left.

You are a rarity indeed.

Bless you,

APAK